patmurris
Member
The classifieds used to be messy, plentiful and fun to browse... but now, i check both sections every other day only to find one or maybe two new ads. No question it's clean now! 
Missing the old classifieds...
- Thread starter patmurris
- Start date
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
I agree with Pat. The ad sections are clean now, but pretty boring compared to the their liveliness before the changes went into effect. There are a number of sellers, from whom I used to buy, who haven't been seen since the changes. I liked it much better the way it was previously when it was actually exciting to log in.
Papo
Member
Yep
KnB Polymers
Member
Me too! When I logged on, that was the first place I went to ... I loved it! :banana:
Now, I log on, see the few new posts that have been made, and boom, I'm done. :yawn:
Now, I log on, see the few new posts that have been made, and boom, I'm done. :yawn:
keandkafu
Member
And I thought it was just me. With the "new" better "government big brother watching out for us", it got real boring! I used to spend a lot of time on the site, but now, people don't respond to questions, very few are willing to offer help, somebody is afraid someone else will steal their idea, and if you want to find out who sells x, it becomes a big deal, nobody offers much for sale anymore, etc.
Sorry for the vent:redface: but in my humble opinion, the changes were not for the better, I don't see a lot of the "old timers" online or posting anymore.
Kevin
Sorry for the vent:redface: but in my humble opinion, the changes were not for the better, I don't see a lot of the "old timers" online or posting anymore.
Kevin
penmaker56
Member
Yes, i miss them too. As a vendor, it was easy to introduce a new product, give advise, or tell someone that they had something that someone was looking for (and yes there was an occasional he said/she said fight, thread highjacking, or mine is better than yours thing). Now if I do it, it is either against the rules, or it will cost me $5 or $10 to post it in an ad. Even at $5, the ad cost more than what I make from the sales generated by the ad (the last and only ad I did generated 0 sales) my stuff is low profit, high volume, to the pen trade, but I offered it to the IAP members because I am/was one of you. Now, I just shut up.
Knucklefish
Member
My humble opinion....
Guess I have to agree with all comments here. I have asked myself several times "wheres all the wood?". I used to check it every day (several times a day) now just a few times per week. No complaining, it is what it is.
Guess I have to agree with all comments here. I have asked myself several times "wheres all the wood?". I used to check it every day (several times a day) now just a few times per week. No complaining, it is what it is.
Timebandit
Member
Its a shame that all of you are bored with this site without the barrage of classified ads in your face and money to be made. I came to this site for pens and pens alone and i am excited everytime i log in. Classifieds were just a bi-product for me, and i like this site no less without them. The first place i go to are New Posts and go through all of them like that. I didnt come here to buy things, i came here to learn. Hopefully you all can find the joy in Penturning again instead of product buying and money making and once again enjoy our amazing site.
Justin
Justin
Knucklefish
Member
misunderstood perhaps
Justin,
Please don't misundestand me, I totally agree with the excitment of the site. I too come here to better my abilities and learn new things. I am here (new posts, its my landing page when I come) many times a day and other forums on the site. I am only commenting about the classified section. I just don't visit THAT forum as often. I should have been clearer.
John
Justin,
Please don't misundestand me, I totally agree with the excitment of the site. I too come here to better my abilities and learn new things. I am here (new posts, its my landing page when I come) many times a day and other forums on the site. I am only commenting about the classified section. I just don't visit THAT forum as often. I should have been clearer.
John
Timebandit
Member
John, I understand, your comment wasnt really what i was aiming at. There are a few others that specifically said they thought it was boring now and not exciting to log in, and only spend a few minutes on the site because of the lack of product availability. Dont want to argue with anyone, just think its a shame that is all about product availability. This site is about Penturning and Penturning alone and i believe thats why Jeff changed things. To get back to that Root of Penturning, not product buying and selling.
Justin
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OKLAHOMAN
Member
As a pen maker and a vendor I totally disagree. I first came to the IAP to learn and I still come here to learn. I became a vendor only because I saw a need for a certain product but my focus here is still to further my knowledge and the advertising that used to go on here in threads that had nothing to do with advertising was a distraction to say the least. The 5 or 10 dollars that we now pay is indeed cheap and helps support this site so others can enjoy the learning experience. I understand that there are some that have stopped because of the cost but if they can't afford $10 to sell their blanks (most that are not advertising were selling blanks and listing them by the dozens) need to reevaluate the expense compared to the potential.
TellicoTurning
Member
I have to agree with Roy on this subject... I started coming to IAP a number of years back when I was researching some items on pen turning... I liked the camaraderie and the willingness to share ideas and information. What we do ain't rocket science, but some of the ideas I've picked up here are very sophisticated and have been very helpful in my development and marketing. I've cut back on the number of pens I make, focusing on other things, but this is still the first forum I look at when I sit down at the computer... I don't read all of the threads, rarely go to the classified's, but do on occasion drop in... my favorite threads are, Marketing, Other things we make, and the casual conversations.... all others are a bonus.
I understand the reasoning behind the changes... Jeff has done a fantastic job with this forum and I'm sure there's a personal expense to him to keep it going... a small premium to use a section that reaches a good number of potential customers is a small price to pay...
BSea
Member
1st of all, I have no problem with the $10/$5 per add. But the volume of posts seems to have diminished as well as the adds. Maybe it's my imagination, but there does seem to be less overall traffic on this site as a whole since the changes went into place. I don't find it boring or I would stop logging on. But it is somewhat less interesting. Part of that is that is due to the fact that much of what I'm reading is no longer "NEW" to me. But it is new for the newbies (that's kind of redundant:bulgy-eyes
. But I also think that part of the lower overall volume is due to the changes in the add structure. I originally joined this site just for the wood sales (for making gun grips), and gradually became interested because of all the incredible pens I was seeing every time I logged on. I didn't have a lathe, and didn't have any plans for one. But because I came shopping for wood, my new hobby was born. This is still my #1 forum, but for awhile, it was probably the only forum I visited everyday. Now there are some others that have started gaining my attention.
What I really enjoy is seeing new pen makers. I remember how I felt turning my 1st pen. It's nice to see that excitement from the newcomers that join.
Oh, and HAPPY BIRTHDAY Justin!!:cake:
. But I also think that part of the lower overall volume is due to the changes in the add structure. I originally joined this site just for the wood sales (for making gun grips), and gradually became interested because of all the incredible pens I was seeing every time I logged on. I didn't have a lathe, and didn't have any plans for one. But because I came shopping for wood, my new hobby was born. This is still my #1 forum, but for awhile, it was probably the only forum I visited everyday. Now there are some others that have started gaining my attention. What I really enjoy is seeing new pen makers. I remember how I felt turning my 1st pen. It's nice to see that excitement from the newcomers that join.
Oh, and HAPPY BIRTHDAY Justin!!:cake:
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G1Pens
Member
I came here for pen making....the advice....the instruction....the sharing. That is why I will always come here.
All I will say about the adds is ....I don't waste near as much money as I used to.
All I will say about the adds is ....I don't waste near as much money as I used to.
Haynie
Member
I do miss the variety of items in the old classifieds. Being in the boonies I do not have access to special woods. That being said the classifieds were not the reason I came.
chrisk
Member
Sorry Justin but you're American right? You don't encounter the problems we do from here in Europe about products availability right? Please tell me: how could we talk about penturning without materials? On the IAP forum I could find woods, that is pen blanks, unavailable not only in Europe but also in the US, that is from commercial firms. Or do you lnow some firms, even in the US, selling cocobolo burl pen blanks, or chechen burl blanks? Even logwood burl pen blanks? Maybe you could send me an address of some firm or individual selling gmelia burl pen blanks?
As far as I'm concerned, last summer I was so excited after I purchased some stock of briar burl while on holidays in Greece. I could purchase for my own needs but I opted to share with my IAP colleagues. I sold some here. Do you know what? I sold the best pieces I had. Secondly, believe me, if I calculate my expenses in time, energy, work and fuel... I'm in deficit. But I was excited for finally I had the opportunity to offer back a service that since then I was only profiting: rare pen blanks at a decent price. Only consider this: a 7/8" square x 5" (up to 6 1/4") sanded briar pen blank @ $US8... If you consider this a "big money" scheme please tell me! Or do you think that a guy like Rick Herrell is making big money when he offers free shipping everywhere in the world for some of his products?
Now I don't want to criticize the new rules for their purpose was certainly not a worsening but instead an improvement of the forum. On an other hand, this classifieds issue isn't substracting anything to the rest of the forum which is a great place for learning, sharing... about penturning. But allow me please to point out a couple of facts.
Personnally, when I came back from Greece I felt punished for I had to pay (again) to offer, with my briar burl blanks, what I consider a service to the IAP community.
Secondly, the reality of the buy and sell part of the forum is certainly not dying after the new rules were applied but at least heavily damaged especially due to the absence of the individual smaller vendors.
Apologies for my English.
With respect.
Christos.
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Timebandit
Member
Christos,
Fist off, this was a conversation about a few thinking it was boring and not spending as much time on the forum as before due to the lack of merchandise. I understand needing an item and not being able to find it, but i will be honest, i wont spend one minute less on this forum because i cant find a product i want on it. Second, most of the blanks that you mentioned can be found with a few of the vendors here. They dont post them for sale in the classifieds because they have a business and that is where they Sell there product. They just Advertise it here. I thank you for being kind enough to think of others here when buying your briar burl and applaud you for it, but im sure you made enough off of those sales to warrant a $5-$10 ad. I remember when you were selling them and you sold a lot of it. And Rick still pays for ads here. Why? Because he feels they are worth it. Im sorry that you feel punished for having to pay a very minimal fee considering what it would cost you to sell those blanks anywhere else. And the small vendors can still make money here, they just have to consolidate there sales and make larger sales rather then many small ones. I am in his same boat and dont find it to be a hassle at all. Not only that, but the small vendors actually have an area where they can post for free and not have to pay for it, they just choose not to. This is there decision based on how they feel. It is a disappointment that they cant work this out, but i wont loose any sleep over it.
Thank you again for your service
Regards
Justin
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RussFromNH
Member
I come to the site every day to see what is new, learn and see what others have posted, but I do miss the old classifieds.
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Please don't let this turn into a long thirty-pager...we've debated this ad nauseum already, haven't we?
As a point of note, however, the classifieds used to be full of ads for blanks with five or six posted at a time, ten pages of 'PM sent' follow-ups, people without any connection to the IAP coming and posting blanks or stanloupes, or whatnot for sale without contributing anything to the other sections because there's no cost or restriction, and other crap like that, at no cost to anyone...what's happened since then is that people have consolidated their ads as a result of the rules and the cost - and those that posted only a few blanks from time to time have started to use the Deals section, albeit less frequently (people still haven't discovered that part of the marketplace yet, really).
End result - Less perceived ads, still many opportunities to buy if you look for them, and the forum isn't inundated with classifieds and bumped ads - my job is much easier too - only a half full inbox from time to time, instead of a full one every day!
I think that that's the reason why it feels to some like there are less posts - we've cut way back on the number of useless posts in a scant number of sections which were being abused. I for one am glad to not have to see any more 'PM sent' posts bumping threads back into my sight for no reason. Ads now feel like the ads they are, rather than sneaky ads in other sections, and commerce isn't the main focus.
I like it, personally!
As a point of note, however, the classifieds used to be full of ads for blanks with five or six posted at a time, ten pages of 'PM sent' follow-ups, people without any connection to the IAP coming and posting blanks or stanloupes, or whatnot for sale without contributing anything to the other sections because there's no cost or restriction, and other crap like that, at no cost to anyone...what's happened since then is that people have consolidated their ads as a result of the rules and the cost - and those that posted only a few blanks from time to time have started to use the Deals section, albeit less frequently (people still haven't discovered that part of the marketplace yet, really).
End result - Less perceived ads, still many opportunities to buy if you look for them, and the forum isn't inundated with classifieds and bumped ads - my job is much easier too - only a half full inbox from time to time, instead of a full one every day!
I think that that's the reason why it feels to some like there are less posts - we've cut way back on the number of useless posts in a scant number of sections which were being abused. I for one am glad to not have to see any more 'PM sent' posts bumping threads back into my sight for no reason. Ads now feel like the ads they are, rather than sneaky ads in other sections, and commerce isn't the main focus.
I like it, personally!
Not So....
I even have to get prior permission to put an offer there of kits for"Pens for Troops" at my cost.
I no longer offer those things at the site at special prices because I normally didn't make enough to pay the $5 or $10. People didn't believe me either when I told them I was doing those things as a service, not as a money maker.
Not within the rules Justin - I can't post anything in steals and deals if I also sell it (or similar items) as a vendor. Since I sell pen kits I can't offer even kits that I don't stock there. I presume that would apply to drill bits, bushings and anything similar also.
I even have to get prior permission to put an offer there of kits for"Pens for Troops" at my cost.
I no longer offer those things at the site at special prices because I normally didn't make enough to pay the $5 or $10. People didn't believe me either when I told them I was doing those things as a service, not as a money maker.
Donovan's Corner
Member
I am wondering what I missed. Sounds like the excitement of a flea market or street market. Learning about penturning can be (should be) fun but I imagine some learning was lost just like you would learn which street vendors not to buy from.
Smitty, have you actually discussed this with Jeff, or are you just guessing? I know you'd have to get permission, as you sell these items in other sections, but I don't think you're correct about the cost.
Timebandit
Member
Never said your name LeRoy. Been over this before and dont care to do it again.
Thanks
Justin
Justturnin
Member
I cant say that I miss them. I still go through some old ads looking for items others have sold that I need and if I find it I pm to see if they still carry it. While on my searches I find ads that have turned into conversations between a few people where they should have taken it to a seperate thread to ask their questions. as someone that sells often on the Prem Classifieds I prefer this way. There are a few reasons.
1. Like said, the ads are clean and it makes it easier for me to see who wants what. I dont need a 'PM Sent' post becasue when I log into the IAP I get a pop-up that says I got a message.
2. I feel I am giving something back to the person that manages this site. Nothing is free and I struggle with the thought that others are angry becasue of a minimal fee. Go check out some ther sites that have the same traffic as the IAP and see what they charge. $10 is nothing.
3. I used to post multiple ads w/ a few blanks, the changes forced me to consolidate my ads to larger ads and it makes it so much easier for me to manage what I am selling.
On a Final note, I am loving the like botton. Sometimes that is all that is needed on a post. Good job getting that in play.
Thanks
1. Like said, the ads are clean and it makes it easier for me to see who wants what. I dont need a 'PM Sent' post becasue when I log into the IAP I get a pop-up that says I got a message.
2. I feel I am giving something back to the person that manages this site. Nothing is free and I struggle with the thought that others are angry becasue of a minimal fee. Go check out some ther sites that have the same traffic as the IAP and see what they charge. $10 is nothing.
3. I used to post multiple ads w/ a few blanks, the changes forced me to consolidate my ads to larger ads and it makes it so much easier for me to manage what I am selling.
On a Final note, I am loving the like botton. Sometimes that is all that is needed on a post. Good job getting that in play.
Thanks
IPD_Mr
Member
Well well well, now you folks can see a bit of what Jeff was trying to do and deal with when the changes came down the pipeline. My take on this whole issue is pretty simple, you cannot please everyone no matter how hard you try. Jeff did two things when he made the changes that he did. One was he appealed to what the majority of what people wanted. He spent a great deal of time with this and did not make the changes on a whim but rather intelligently. And most importantly he did what was best for IAP. Jeff took a rash of **** from people, I know this because I gave him some. :redface: People hate change even when it is for their benefit. I drive a lousy 5 miles to our warehouse everyday. When they were widening and repaving the road I take there was a detour to get to the warehouse. I screamed bloody murder even though in the long run I would benefit from the new road. We find comfort in familiarity and routine. Just think if all the pen-making was done with familiarity and routine. We would have a bunch of pens that look alike.
So love it, hate it, agree, or disagree - In the long run what was done was best for the IAP. We should all appreciate getting back to the basics and advancing our craft. Look as some of the new designs out there because people are using their mind and not shopping for the next idea. Yes I know I am a vendor, but I am also a turner and want and need to spend more time behind the lathe.
Speaking of lathes anyone know of a good deal on a Microlux 7x16? :biggrin:
So love it, hate it, agree, or disagree - In the long run what was done was best for the IAP. We should all appreciate getting back to the basics and advancing our craft. Look as some of the new designs out there because people are using their mind and not shopping for the next idea. Yes I know I am a vendor, but I am also a turner and want and need to spend more time behind the lathe.
Speaking of lathes anyone know of a good deal on a Microlux 7x16? :biggrin:
KnB Polymers
Member
Wow, to think this started out with a simple "I miss the old classifieds"
OKLAHOMAN
Member
Mike right on, Hmmm a Microlux 7x16 no but sure do on a 7x14....eat your heart out:biggrin:
Yes
I am not guessing. Jeff will then add an entry to my offer saying that it is a bonifide charty offering.
Just a correction
Not intended to start any additional discussion Justin. The statement I highlighted is just not true. Trust me on this - I am a small vendor and have tried to use steals and deals....
nativewooder
Member
My take on this is that if you miss the "old classifieds" then you probably miss being 18 and all the women you didn't get to flirt with! Get over it! Start a site called "Nostalgia Rants"!:biggrin: Yea, I remember the "good old days" as well as anybody!!!:tongue:
Bet ya don't!!!!!
NOBODY remembers the "good old days" as well as I do ---- NOBODY!!!!!
glycerine
Member
I agree that it's much cleaner. I like it that way. This IS the "International Association of Penturners", not the "International Association of Penturning-Related Advertisements"... so if you want the old classifieds, go to craigslist, you'll find plenty there!
chrisk
Member
Justin,
Just to clarify. I didn't felt punished after I paid $5-10 but for the "one size fits all" behind this fee, seemingly intended as a reward to the IAP community by people making money from this same IAP community (which is great as a principle). Well, I not only didn't make money but lost money, time, leisure from my holidays, etc. in this venture.
Will I be doing this again? 1000% even with the new rules. But I'm asking all of my colleagues to think twice when they blame indistinctly all of us who are considering the IAP also for buying/selling/trading materials (rare woods...), pen kits/components, etc. Well IMHO all this is also about penmaking!
Respectfully.
Christos.
RussFromNH
Member
I am relatively new to pen turning.. I come to the IAP site maybe 5 to 6 times every day to see what people are making and what they are saying. I have learned everything that I know about pen turning from the people on this site. Not having the classifieds has not changed how often I come to the site. Just what pages I look at.
I do miss the old classifieds but not for the classifieds or "flea-market" part of it, but more for the "craft fair" side. I used to enjoy looking at the classifieds because it had such a variety of woods, tools and blanks that I have never seen before. Yes, I can go to a vender's site and see wood blanks, but I would imagine that they show only the "best of the best" as they should. On the classifieds page I could see real wood blanks, and more often than not wood that I have never heard of. It had more of a "hands on" feel that you don't get on the Internet...
Maybe I just don't look hard enough for them now, but when they were in the old classifieds it was mostly all in one place.
I do miss the old classifieds but not for the classifieds or "flea-market" part of it, but more for the "craft fair" side. I used to enjoy looking at the classifieds because it had such a variety of woods, tools and blanks that I have never seen before. Yes, I can go to a vender's site and see wood blanks, but I would imagine that they show only the "best of the best" as they should. On the classifieds page I could see real wood blanks, and more often than not wood that I have never heard of. It had more of a "hands on" feel that you don't get on the Internet...
Maybe I just don't look hard enough for them now, but when they were in the old classifieds it was mostly all in one place.
A few of the heavy-users of the classifieds who used to have a wide variety of blanks stopped selling before the new rules, for health reasons or otherwise...Big Rob comes to mind.
He always had a huge number of neat blanks...Nolan too - same deal there. (I.e. not new-classifieds induced)
He always had a huge number of neat blanks...Nolan too - same deal there. (I.e. not new-classifieds induced)
Boss302
Member
The unintended consequence of all the new rules is that the small time sellers, with their interesting products and generally good prices, have disappeared but I still see postings from the same people selling stuff that I thought this new policy was suppose to deter. Almost any forum that deals with woodworking, has some portion of the site committed to commerce, so to think this site should be limited only to the discussion and sharing of pen turning information is not realistic.
This is a great member driven forum with excellent leadership and management. If you're going to disagree with the original post, then do so with common sense and logic and not with exclamation points and sarcasm.
This is a great member driven forum with excellent leadership and management. If you're going to disagree with the original post, then do so with common sense and logic and not with exclamation points and sarcasm.
alphageek
Former Moderator
The new policies were not set up to deter anyone in the classifieds. Yes, there is a cost to sell in most of the classifieds. If a person is truely a SMALL seller, they can sell in the free ads - we have it happen all the time still today (as in occasional seller of unique stuff they have). The repeat sellers do have to go into whichever paid forum, but its been shown that the rates there if you group together a reasonable amount of product compare very positively with other sources (like ebay).
This forum is not limited to just discussion, there is a commerce area here as well - the new rules just help keep the sales where they belong and help with site costs as well.
patsikes
Member
I agree...not as much fun stuff to buy...
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Give me a list of member names, I'll personally fund 5 thread credits for each of them and let's see if we can't get them back offering goodies for us.
It was never the intent to shut out any of the smaller vendors. I asked more than once for anyone who felt that the cost or rules were going to shut them down to contact me and we'd discuss how to keep them selling. One of the smallest is still selling, and is in fact our #1 ad buyer.