How to stabilize a LARGE burl?

[witz1976]

So I was out walking in my back yard today and found a half rotten tree loaded with burls some are quite large. I am calling my buddy later today (as he "borrowed" my chain saw 2 days ago) to cut them free, but I have a feeling that they are going to be a bit punky. So I was curious if there is any type of wood stabilizer that I could soak these guys in?

I know I know, no pics...I will remedy this later today when I go back out to mark the trail a bit better :biggrin:

 

[el_d]

Talk to Curtis.....

Do a search for "Cactus Juice"

 

[witz1976]

I don't think I could pay for curtis to make a vacuum box or find a toaster big enough for the whole burl. I am trying to keep it intact.

 

[Minotbob]

I would cut into smaller pieces and then stabilize.

 

[MesquiteMan]

I have built a larger chamber and stabilized a 7.5" x 7.5" x 3" piece of spalted hackberry with excellent results, getting complete penetration.. Much bigger than that and like you said, the cost of the darn chamber would be too much. Then the problem of finding a big enough toaster oven to cure it in not to mention the cost of how much resin you would need!

 

[greggas]

Dan;

I have taken large punk burls and saturated them with Minwax wood hardener with good results ( as long as the wood is dry) Depending on the size it can get pricey but beats buying an oven to heat ultraseal.....er...I mean Cactus Juice ( shout out to Curtis) in

 

[Russianwolf]

Why don't you ping one of the companies that offers stabilization services. They may be able to handle it in their equipment. May pay a bit more, but get the full results you are after (not having to cut it up).

 

[witz1976]

Well here are the pics. The biggest burl is a little over 24" in diameter (this is the one on the lower trunk. As you can see there are 7 more burls on the tree. Most are about 12" is diameter so the cactus juice while it is a great product I am sure, will not work in this situation. I did take a hand saw to it and it is pretty solid, however I would feel more comfortable trying to soak them in a hardening solution. I would like to try to keep them as whole as possible as I am looking to turn a few more lamps this year.

Thanks for the help so far, keep them coming!

 

[MesquiteMan]

Dan;

I have taken large punk burls and saturated them with Minwax wood hardener with good results ( as long as the wood is dry) Depending on the size it can get pricey but beats buying an oven to heat ultraseal.....er...I mean Cactus Juice ( shout out to Curtis) in

FYI...Cactus Juice and Ultraseal are not the same product at all. They are not made by the same manufacturer and Cactus Juice is not a re-labeled Ultraseal! They are somewhat chemically similar with both being a methacrylate ester blend but that is about it.

 

[chrisk]

About 10-12 years ago, there was a discussion about PEG (Polyethylene glycol) for drying and stabilizing wood. I even purchased, here in Belgium, two blocks of PEG1000 and a related book*. Never used it specially due to lack of space.
I don't know about the further debate and application of PEG1000 but, at this time, it seemed a promising (US born) method.


* SPIELMAN, P., Working Green Wood With PEG, Sterling Publishing Co., Inc., New York, 1980.

 

[witz1976]

The important thing here is the tree is far from green. As you see in the pics, it is a downed tree, any moisture that is currently in it is due to the melting snow from this past winter.

 

[David Keller]

Not sure it's what you're looking for, Dan, but I've had some success stabilizing really dry, punky maple burl with a mix of white glue and water(50/50). I rough turned a hollow form about 5 or 6 inches in diameter then soaked it in the mix in a ziplock bag for about 24 hours. I let it dry for about a week then returned the piece to finished thickness. The wood was still a little tricky to turn, but the glue allowed me to get decent finishing cuts and good final surface.

I've got to get a few more coats of WOP on it, but I'll post the finished piece in the OTWM forum when it's done.

I don't think it would penetrate deeply into a solid chunk of wood, but I got complete saturation across about 5/8 of an inch of wood.

 

[greggas]

Dan;

I have taken large punk burls and saturated them with Minwax wood hardener with good results ( as long as the wood is dry) Depending on the size it can get pricey but beats buying an oven to heat ultraseal.....er...I mean Cactus Juice ( shout out to Curtis) in

FYI...Cactus Juice and Ultraseal are not the same product at all. They are not made by the same manufacturer and Cactus Juice is not a re-labeled Ultraseal! They are somewhat chemically similar with both being a methacrylate ester blend but that is about it.

See here is the problem with online attempts at humor.......my post was intended as a joke in which I first named Ultraseal out of habit and then, recognizing that our good friend Mesquiteman had introduced a terrific product realized my error and changed my recommendation to Cactus Juice.

In no was was I trying to imply that Ultraseal and Cactus juice were the same product.

Sorry for any misunderstanding Curtis.

Just trying to be funny

 

[greggas]

The important thing here is the tree is far from green

You can say that again!

Too bad you did not discover it about 15 years ago

good luck

 

[witz1976]

The important thing here is the tree is far from green

You can say that again!

Too bad you did not discover it about 15 years ago

good luck

Didn't own the land 15 years ago...heck didn't start turning til about 2.5 years ago. Only found this one by luck.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Dan;

I have taken large punk burls and saturated them with Minwax wood hardener with good results ( as long as the wood is dry) Depending on the size it can get pricey but beats buying an oven to heat ultraseal.....er...I mean Cactus Juice ( shout out to Curtis) in

FYI...Cactus Juice and Ultraseal are not the same product at all. They are not made by the same manufacturer and Cactus Juice is not a re-labeled Ultraseal! They are somewhat chemically similar with both being a methacrylate ester blend but that is about it.

See here is the problem with online attempts at humor.......my post was intended as a joke in which I first named Ultraseal out of habit and then, recognizing that our good friend Mesquiteman had introduced a terrific product realized my error and changed my recommendation to Cactus Juice.

In no was was I trying to imply that Ultraseal and Cactus juice were the same product.

Sorry for any misunderstanding Curtis.

Just trying to be funny

Hey buddy, I know you personally and have been subject to your sense of humor in person so I knew what you were meaning and took it that way. I just thought I would clarify in case others thought you were implying that!!!

 

[robutacion]

Well, well, what have we got here...! yummies, yummies...!:biggrin:

Before I saw the pics, and reading your OP I though to myself, how big is this fellows' backyard...??? chezzz it has to be of considerable size for him to need to mark a trail back to the spot...!:wink:

What a nice little "jungle" you got there mate, I would be in paradise, in there...!:wink: shame that I'm so far away...!:frown:

Now, and from what I see and what you said, the wood is old, wet and full of moss/fungi that will influence what's going to happen in a near future with it.

Apart from being cut from the tree, those burls need to be cut properly to give you as much chance as possible to make it usable when the time is right. There are a few different things that you could do to them, some more complicated and expensive others more doable and at this stage/moment, if I was there or if they were mine, I would do the following;

*- Cut the burls that are pretty much all around the tree with about 3" of wood/trunk on either side of the burl.

*- Any burls that are to one side of the tree, do the same thing, cut them as is the burl was all around with the same cut distance from the burl.

*- Take them to a cement slab area and water pressure wash them to remove dirt, moss and surface fungi.

*- The logs that have burl on one side, slice the log in half or so, removing the non burled wood.

*- Put them under cover for 24 to 48 hours.

*- Now that most of the water used to clean them has gone, use so exterior acrylic paint (any colour) to seal the full burled logs (both end grains), and the half logs with the burl still attached, paint the ends of the half log and the exposed wood from the log ripping in half. In general all fresh cut exposed wood should be sealed (painted).

*- Store them in a dry and away from weather location, this will allow the water inside the wood to slowly dry off, and reducing dramatically the rotten process some more advanced areas of decomposition my have. The wood that is still solid, will lose the excess water and will preserve well...!:wink:

Any possible stabilization or wood hardening work will be better done and achieved when you are ready to use each individual piece as is a good chance they will all have different decomposition and other stages, including pieces that will probably be needing no repair at all.

At this time, various processes and methods can be used but at this time, I would worry about preserving what you've got from further damage and what I suggested to you are the exact steps I would be taken in the wood/burls was/were mine...!:wink:

Good luck.

Cheers
George

 

[witz1976]

George, I own 3 acres of land with 2 acres of them forest. Surrounding me are 4 neighbors and forest...so I am not kidding in my signature that I am deep in the Maine woods. :biggrin: Oddly enough those burls were about 75 - 80 feet from the house, but it was dense enough for me to throw a couple of tags so I can spot it easily. I will leave you an open invite George, ya ever decide to travel half way around the globe you are welcome to come and play.:biggrin:

But that is great info, thanks a bunch! Tuesday I will be out playing and taking care of those. Stinks that my chain saw is still on loan for today and tomorrow it is going to rain:frown:

 

[SDB777]

Well here are the pics. The biggest burl is a little over 24" in diameter (this is the one on the lower trunk. As you can see there are 7 more burls on the tree. Most are about 12" is diameter so the cactus juice while it is a great product I am sure, will not work in this situation. I did take a hand saw to it and it is pretty solid, however I would feel more comfortable trying to soak them in a hardening solution. I would like to try to keep them as whole as possible as I am looking to turn a few more lamps this year.

Thanks for the help so far, keep them coming!

Loved the pictures!

After doing time in Maine(Lebanon) for my first 18years, I decided a much warmer climate was in order.... My hats off to you for digging in all that snow and swatting those black flies!!!

Any idea what kind of tree that used to be? Looks to be completely rotten....hope not, but it looks bad. Seemed to be the same problem I'd run into when looking for interesting wood while on vacation at the folks place..... The deep-dark-jungle-of-Maine eats trees pretty fast.




Scott (might be gone already....good luck) B

 

[witz1976]

Loved the pictures!

After doing time in Maine(Lebanon) for my first 18years, I decided a much warmer climate was in order.... My hats off to you for digging in all that snow and swatting those black flies!!!

Any idea what kind of tree that used to be? Looks to be completely rotten....hope not, but it looks bad. Seemed to be the same problem I'd run into when looking for interesting wood while on vacation at the folks place..... The deep-dark-jungle-of-Maine eats trees pretty fast.




Scott (might be gone already....good luck) B

Thankfully the snow is mostly gone (although you saw a little in the last pic :redface and the black flies are not out...yet. But there is a lot of standing water around the property and I have a feeling they will be bad this year :frown::frown:

If I was to make a guess I am thinking this could be either maple or oak just because those are the species around it.

 

[LEAP]

Dan,
If you were a little bit closer I'd bring you a saw today but the wife would kill me if I'm not around this afternoon. I work for cheap, a beer and small burl ok maybe two beers.

 

[witz1976]

Dan,
If you were a little bit closer I'd bring you a saw today but the wife would kill me if I'm not around this afternoon. I work for cheap, a beer and small burl ok maybe two beers.

It's ok Phil as I am working today (actually at work now:tongue but I just may take my hand saw to it later just to try it. As for beer, I got about 5 cases of 3 flavors on hand...I love being a brewer :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Dana Fish]

Chainsaws and homebrew... kind of a bad combination when mixed I'm actually prepping grain today for a 10gal summer brew tomorrow!

Can't wait to see what you get out of those burls!

 

[witz1976]

No no no, the beer is to numb the pain afterwards:biggrin:

 

[witz1976]

Was out playing after work!!

So as soon as I got home I decided to take the bow saw and lop off a few of the burls. I think I under stated the size, the biggest in this group measured as 46" around!! As you can see in the photos I put a basketball in there for reference.

Most of them seem like they are still good, the wood was nice and dry and hard. A couple was waterlogged, however I think once the water is out I think they could be salvaged.

Here are some eye candy.

 

[Dana Fish]

Very nice!

 

[robutacion]

Like I said, get a water pressure gun and clean all that moss, dirt and other stuff living in there, and let them dry for a day or so then paint those exposed fresh cut surfaces, you want the water that is inside the burl/wood (not from the washing) to come out SLOWLY, otherwise the wood may crack/stress a lot more with more cell separation than what you could have. Prevention, prevention...!

Even those pieces that you say/think are too far gone, are perfectly usable and in many cases will have colors and other things happening in the wood that are a lot more important as character and uniqueness than anything else you may have or see so, protect those pieces as if they were "treasures"...!:wink:

Get them all out of the humid jungle, and get to work mate...! actually, you already are and cutting all those pieces with a bow saw, you are either a strong fellow or you are totally mad...!:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George

 

[witz1976]

Like I said, get a water pressure gun and clean all that moss, dirt and other stuff living in there, and let them dry for a day or so then paint those exposed fresh cut surfaces, you want the water that is inside the burl/wood (not from the washing) to come out SLOWLY, otherwise the wood may crack/stress a lot more with more cell separation than what you could have. Prevention, prevention...!

Even those pieces that you say/think are too far gone, are perfectly usable and in many cases will have colors and other things happening in the wood that are a lot more important as character and uniqueness than anything else you may have or see so, protect those pieces as if they were "treasures"...!:wink:

Get them all out of the humid jungle, and get to work mate...! actually, you already are and cutting all those pieces with a bow saw, you are either a strong fellow or you are totally mad...!:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George

If it wasn't for the wonderful storm we got today I would be doing this, So it will have to wait until monday.

As for me being a strong fellow or totally mad...how about a little of both. I felt motivated yesterday.:biggrin: After the last cut on the large one however, I was done.