Made in the USA Pen Kits

[Parson]

Wondering what the interest would be in a line of American made pen kits. I'd certainly pay a couple of bucks more for something made here. How about you?

 

[skiprat]

Mmmmm.....patriotism is great, but we have to be honest and realist at the same time.
Whether kits were made in USA ( America is actually a continent not a country :wink or UK or any other 'first world' country, the price would definetely be more than a 'few bucks more'. As long as people want value for money, then we don't stand a chance of seeing them made here.

I personally hope they never get made in any first world country as that would mean I'd have to give up the hobby as I couldn't afford it.:wink:

Just my opinion....so don't shoot me:biggrin:

 

[PenMan1]

I'd buy the "good" ones.

Made in the U.S.A. means a lot to me. BUT, the quality level MUST surpass what I currently use. As much as it hurts me to say this, Made in the USA no longer means superior quality.

For example, Egyptian cotton sheets, IMHO are far superior to those made with South Georgia cotton. At one time, I used American made cameras. The I discovered German made optics (far better and not much more expensive). The I found Japanese optics. Better than USA, less expensive. Unfortunately, I see this same trend developing and automobiles. ( I not trying to start a war here, but you do have to give Honda, BMW and others their).

I remember as a child laughing at a kid with a transistor radio. It was small, cheap and made in Japan. My laughter was because the USA perfected radio (so we thought). "Real" radios were big, expensive and carried Emerson, GE and Philco name plates. Therefore this tiny $4 radio had to be "junk".

I would pay more, BUT the quality must be substantially better to support my spending more dollars.

Respectfully submitted.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

.:wink:

Just my opinion....so don't shoot me:biggrin:

Skip - just a little fyi - most people don't shoot rats they just put traps out that flip down over their scrawny little necks and squish them ... fwiw :biggrin::wink:

No comment on the thread at all and this has nothing to do with the comment on the thread so don't get freaked out I'm just pokin fun at a friend!!!

Mrs.

 

[Glenn McCullough]

Unlike many, I suppose, I dont make pens for volume profit. I'd rather make my "expression" pens with better materials when price is not as much a factor. When I do make a volume order, I can always order the imports.

 

[skiprat]

Skip - just a little fyi - most people don't shoot rats they just put traps out that flip down over their scrawny little necks and squish them ... fwiw :biggrin::wink:

No comment on the thread at all and this has nothing to do with the comment on the thread so don't get freaked out I'm just pokin fun at a friend!!!

Mrs.

I hope I never ever P you off :tongue:


I think the poll results are very interesting so far.
Perhaps people would also comment on just how much more they would be willing to pay for the exact same quality if it was made in their own country? 10% ? 50%? 200% ?

 

[IPD_Mrs]

The reality of this is it will be more than a few bucks. Here in the US we have two government agencies that prevent the US from being competitive on a global market. OSHA and EPA When we were a top industrial nation, we had factories everywhere with the neatest well build machines money could buy at the time. Many of those machines were so well built at the beginning of the 20th century that they are still running today. The problem is that these machines are not running in the US and if they are then the company has less than ten employees to slide under OSHA's radar. They also do some pretty ridiculous things such as fines for having Windex in a non-marked spray bottle, because you buy in bulk and refill quality spray bottles.

EPA is both good and bad in my opinion. I don't want to start any lengthy discussion on that.

Suffice it to say we could compete with a non-union work force if it were not for OSHA and EPA (in my opinion). If you look at what is happening to China enviromentally wise, then EPA is doing it's job. OSHA on the other hand may just be hindering natural selection! :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Texatdurango]

Mmmmm.....patriotism is great, but we have to be honest and realist at the same time.
Whether kits were made in USA ( America is actually a continent not a country :wink or UK or any other 'first world' country, the price would definetely be more than a 'few bucks more'. As long as people want value for money, then we don't stand a chance of seeing them made here.

I personally hope they never get made in any first world country as that would mean I'd have to give up the hobby as I couldn't afford it.:wink:

Just my opinion....so don't shoot me:biggrin:

Funny, I never considered the UK as a first world country, I always though of it as a tourist attraction that had neat looking castles and people that talked with cool accents!


Parson, I wouldn't pay more for kits because I really don't see how "made in USA" would insure better quality just because they cost more to make! As an example, I still use kit clips on my home made pens because good quality clips aren't available..... anywhere other than finding a jeweler or silversmith to make you one or two at a time while carrying high price tags! I don't know anyone who would be willing to invest tens of thousands of dollars in facilities and equipment then be willing to work 12 -15 hours a day for $3.50 an hour.

Actually I find the poll results surprising based on all the comments made on the forum about how much kits cost, the number of people waiting on group buys to save a few dollars, now the majority says they would pay more for a kit? A few pennies perhaps but a few dollars more per kit...I doubt it!

 

[PenMan1]

Very interesting question, Skip!

I would pay 25 - 30 percent more for the exact same pen parts. The reason I would pay that is because the way we are structured in the U.S., that percentage is about "the penalty" for locating manufacturing operations here instead of China.

I like a "level playing field" and I think that U.S. workers are inventive and hard working, but our business restrictions ( I won't elaborate, so that we can all remian civil) give other countries a 30 percent advantage.

 

[Russianwolf]

I'd be willing to pay more to give my neighbor a job, yes.

 

[workinforwood]

Buy pen parts from Mike Redburn..he is USA. Otherwise, I guess you better start saving your money, the equipment is going to be expensive, but other than the building cost, equipment and supplies, it is possible to compete. Things are turning around, so be optimistic. I believe manufacturing will one day dominate in the USA again. In my mind it is only logical that it do so, and you can already see multitudes of companies that have done so. The two reasons it happens is labor cost and transportation cost. You outsource to other countries, eventually those people have more money, they buy more stuff, they want more stuff, their rates go up and the factory becomes less profitable. Then the fuel costs of transporting things, at a potential for $200 a barrel of oil..and a ship burning 10 barrels a mile, well to get the goods back to the USA is ridiculous. With todays technology, a couple guys could, if they had the funds, equipments, building etc, compete with Chinese pens. I actually believe that not only could you make the parts here, you could beat their price. There is no doubt the government does a lot to prevent businesses from thriving, with taxes and regulations, but private ingenuity and determination will always over come it in the long term. We the USA will rise again.

 

[skiprat]

Mike and Jeff, those are nice sentiments and aspirations but I believe that as long as USA owes China around $900 Billion then they are pretty much commited to continue to import Chinese products. :wink:
I believe the deal is something like 'Sure, we lend you money, you buy our stuff'

Luxury items( like pen kits )aside, when it comes down to the crunch, I will provide for my own family by buying from elsewhere before looking out for my neighbour.
The reason he doesn't have a job is because he ( and I and you) wanted more money for making stuff than we were prepared to pay for them. :wink:

 

[IPD_Mrs]

Skip - just a little fyi - most people don't shoot rats they just put traps out that flip down over their scrawny little necks and squish them ... fwiw :biggrin::wink:

No comment on the thread at all and this has nothing to do with the comment on the thread so don't get freaked out I'm just pokin fun at a friend!!!

Mrs.

I hope I never ever P you off :tongue:


I think the poll results are very interesting so far.
Perhaps people would also comment on just how much more they would be willing to pay for the exact same quality if it was made in their own country? 10% ? 50%? 200% ?

No worries . . I have some special cheese just for you :wink: I rarely get mad enough at friends to want to fatally harm them :biggrin:

As for your poll - I don't know for sure how I would answer that -If the quality were better then I would pay more - cry now or cry later as Mike has said many times over. If the quality were not better then I wouldn't pay more just because it says "Made in the USA." If I am paying more so my fellow American's have employment then they best make good on that employment! I'm not really sure though where that percentage ends - I think it makes a difference as to how important that item (whatever it might be) is to me. Pen kits - I only buy a select few now since so many are IMHO kind of junk anyway.

Mrs.

 

[Smitty37]

Maybe

Mmmmm.....patriotism is great, but we have to be honest and realist at the same time.
Whether kits were made in USA ( America is actually a continent not a country :wink or UK or any other 'first world' country, the price would definetely be more than a 'few bucks more'. As long as people want value for money, then we don't stand a chance of seeing them made here.

I personally hope they never get made in any first world country as that would mean I'd have to give up the hobby as I couldn't afford it.:wink:

Just my opinion....so don't shoot me:biggrin:

I was in staples a couple of weeks ago and either cross or parker (I'm not sure which) branded refills were clearly marked made in UK....and schmidt refills are made in Germany. So I think all is not lost.

 

[LeeR]

Wondering what the interest would be in a line of American made pen kits. I'd certainly pay a couple of bucks more for something made here. How about you?

Sadly, this is probably just a philosophical pondering, but could possibly be done by a forum member, who is small enough to avoid all the roadblocks to starting a manufacturing business in the USA. That plus offering unique and/or customizable products that a mass producer cannot offer.

I work for a product development company, and most of our business is manufacturing PC boards. However, very few components come from the USA. We buy bare boards from China, and most of the electronic components we buy (even from USA companies like Motorola, TI, National Semiconductor,etc.) come from China or Southeast Asia. We provide the engineering excellence, and work with customers to get them exactly what they need. We offer rapid turnaround, and ongoing development they usually need early on in the development of their product. If their volume gets really large, and the product is stable, they will likely take their business offshore.

It sucks, but it is just a fact of life.

My wife and I have driven imports as well as domestics (I drive a VW GTI, she drives a 1999 Caravan), but I am ready to give my auto $ all to Detroit the next time. Besides the very relaible Caravan, we also had a 2001 PT Cruiser, a really good car (gave it to my daughter when she graduated from college.) I've never driven Fords, but seriously considering a new Explorer. I hate to see ALL manufacturing leave this country. Some is inevitable, some will never come back, however, some can be saved.

Just my $.03 (adjusted due to federal bloat and excess).

 

[Smitty37]

Hmmmm

Now that's kind of a tough question for me - since I am a seller, if it happened and they were successful they'd put me out of business. But, then I am a septigenarian so maybe that would be ok.

 

[toolcrazy]

Even though the USA made kits are going to be more expensive. If the quality is there, I'll buy them. Since I sell completed pens. I would just offer the USA made completed pens at a premium. There are plenty of buyers willing to pay the extra for domestic made products.

 

[BKelley]

I would pay more for a kit made in the USA if the quality is the same as the import. I think it would be nice to tell a customer that this pen is 100% American made and no American jobs were lost in the making of this pen. Folks, when are we going to wake up, ten jobs going off shore is ten Americans out of work. Multiply this by thousands and we end up with an economy that is 2nd rate to Lower Slobovia.

 

[arioux]

This is an interesting denate. I just return take a look at the photo that Timberbits posted about the chinese manufacturer (home shop), and tried to figure out what kind of set up it would take to host the same equipment in the US or Canada. Worker's healt regulations, safety regulations, environmental regulations, construction regulations etc etc etc.....All the business permit and taxes. It would not be just a few $ more, the price would be 4 mabe 5 time the price if not even more.

And that's without counting the insurance because of the number of people that will sue you because they scratch their finger with your clip because one passed the quality control and had a little dent in it. And i'm serious about this one

 

[Parson]

Parson, I wouldn't pay more for kits because I really don't see how "made in USA" would insure better quality just because they cost more to make!

I never inferred that "made in the USA" meant better quality. Just made here instead of China or Taiwan.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

It would be more than just a couple of bucks more, think double to triple.
The company would first have to invest millions of start-up dollars, to buy property, build a plant, hire workers that get benifits and decent wages, buy the machinery,set-up distributors, and most likley still import some raw materials. Keep dreaming that we're ever going to become a country of manufacturing plants again.

 

[Andrew Arndts]

to ask this question, is to ask, Does a Bear defecate in the woods?:biggrin:
Heck I be just as happy to make something that wasn't a 50-50 gamble whether or not it assembles correctly.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

This is one of those questions that on the surface is a simple yes or no question, but soon gets complicated. When Sam Walton opened his first store he sold products from the USA. He soon realized that people wanted better prices and now we have the Wal Mart of today. My wife worked in a gift shop in Skagway Alaska that sold real made in Alaska stuff and it was right across the street from the Skagway outlet store that had alaskan gifts that were made in China. Tourists complained that it was so hare to find Alaskan gifts and they hated to buy the made in China stuff, but at the end of the day when they went back to the cruise ship there was more Skagway outlet store bags than bags from any of the real made in Alaska stores. I use the word gift because I can't spell that word for the stuff we sell to tourists so they can give their grandkids something from their trip.
As for US regulations, I'm glad that I have clean air to breathe and I don't have to worry about water quality and I have seen what happens when safety regulations are not paid attention to. Bleach water looks like plain water until somebody starts screaming. Better safe than sorry, But try to keep the regulations reasonable.
Would I pay more for a made in USA kit? A little, if it was worth it. Until then I shall use kits as I need them and start to head in the direction of the world of kitless pens and hopefully this year take a crack at lost wax casting.

 

[Texatdurango]

It would be more than just a couple of bucks more, think double to triple.
The company would first have to invest millions of start-up dollars, to buy property, build a plant, hire workers that get benifits and decent wages, buy the machinery,set-up distributors, and most likley still import some raw materials. Keep dreaming that we're ever going to become a country of manufacturing plants again.

Not only the facts mentioned above but could you imagine the EPA requirements to deal with the chemicals involved with plating and cleaning metals? Probably cost a bundle just to set up facilities to deal with chemical disposal.

I'm sure in some countries, pouring left over muriatic acid or similar chemicals out the back door is acceptable but I doubt you would get away with that here..... unless you're on a few acres out in the sticks!

 

[DrBills]

Hey Skiprat,

You make several salient observations, but I beg to differ on a point you make, to wit:

NORTH America and SOUTH America are continents. Together they are called The Americas. Usage of America in the modern context is a reference to the USA, as opposed to its original use to mark the area we now call Brazil. Words hijacked into the English language tend to do this, wonder around a bit before settling down.

As to your point about the costs, I think only those willing to market and purchase items with the "Made in the USA" label would lay out the extra cash. It would entirely be, as you point out, a matter of patriotism. I think the wood or other mats turned would have to be grown/made here as well.

I would certainly have some in my inventory, but beyond that, they would indeed have to be of superior quality and/or more interesting design for me to make them my main supply.

We in the US were very gung-ho about creating a world trade economy, and having done so, we reap the whirlwind.

Take care,
Bill

Mmmmm.....patriotism is great, but we have to be honest and realist at the same time.
Whether kits were made in USA ( America is actually a continent not a country :wink or UK or any other 'first world' country, the price would definetely be more than a 'few bucks more'. As long as people want value for money, then we don't stand a chance of seeing them made here.

I personally hope they never get made in any first world country as that would mean I'd have to give up the hobby as I couldn't afford it.:wink:

Just my opinion....so don't shoot me:biggrin:

 

[76winger]

Just some thoughts about this in no certain order:

I would buy kits made in the USA, but knowing they'd cost more I would expect better quality for the extra dollars spent. For a pen I'm making to sell though, I could only see this working for mid-range to high-end pens where the extra cost could be blended in with the cost of the finish piece, so as not to end up with nothing more than an overpriced slimline or something.

I like thought of supporting fellow americans with my hobby, but realities of the markets as already mentioned make that very hard to do. I wish this weren't so.

As time goes on we're becoming more of a world market rather than a continental or country based market overall. As technology brings us closer together the world over, we have to begin thinking in terms of supporting our fellow humans rather than just our fellow countrymen (and women).

I also believe that, in time, 3rd world countries that can currently manufacture parts cheaper than America can due to regulator agencies will ultimately lose that advantage. Sooner or later the world is not going to continue to put up with contaminated paints and food, substandard quality control and other things that is currently tolerated just to save a buck on price. Eventually the playing field will even back between areas around the world and manufacturing will follow and even back out as well. Will it happen in our lifetime? I doubt it, but I believe it will happen eventually. This is my own opinion on the matter.

Just think about China manufacturing for instance, they've taken the world by storm due to their low manufacturing costs, and a lot of that is because they've historically had a much lower standard of living. But as they raise their standard of living and start replacing their bikes with automobiles and start wearing nicer cloths and many other things, they will demand more compensation for their work to be able to keep up that standard of living. And what follows that? Higher costs of products produced.

I actually look forward to such a time, but doubt I'll live long enough to see it. Change doesn't come easy or fast, but it does come. Until that time, would feel more comfortable supporting my neighbor than someone farther away that I don't know and will most likely never meet.

 

[jttheclockman]

I won't answer the question because there are too many variables there to such a general question. Those that mock OSHA and other federal regulations should be thankful they are in place. I do everyday I work out in the construction field. I value my life. Those that say they would buy the more expensive USA kits then go turn the blanks on ther Taiwanese lathe or use their Chinese tools. Nice. What chased the manufactoring out of the country is corporate greed. There is alot of blame to go around when it comes to what caused those plants leaving here. To make kits as shown through some of Timberbits eyes would be very difficult to compete. Interesting discussion but fruitless as I see it. my 2¢

 

[bitshird]

The kits/components would have to be a far superior design and of significant quality to get me to buy based solely based on country of origin. And I would venture a guess that to purchase a slim line pen kit Made in USA one would have to spend 16 to 18 dollars just a guess, but I think it's pretty close.

 

[ctubbs]

I have a market that will pay markedly higher prices for real "Made in USA" products. If we could come up with kits costing no more that 300% of today's cost, they will sell. There are companies today already set up doing plating and castings here in the USA. We have a shop within 50 miles of my door that does excellent plating, even genuine Chrome like used to be on real car bumpers. This could be set up from small existing businesses around the country, very similar to the way the China vendors do.

Yes, there is a rather large market out there for real Made in the USA products. I shop for these products and only buy the junk when I can not find home grown things.
Charles

 

[Smitty37]

I don't agree this time

It would be more than just a couple of bucks more, think double to triple.
The company would first have to invest millions of start-up dollars, to buy property, build a plant, hire workers that get benifits and decent wages, buy the machinery,set-up distributors, and most likley still import some raw materials. Keep dreaming that we're ever going to become a country of manufacturing plants again.

I think they would be a little higher but not double or triple. My guess would be less than 25%. But that doesn't matter, because the powers that be in the USA do not want us to be a manufacturing nation. They think we can maintain a high standard of living by processing medical bills. We can't but they think we can.

We Americans are our own worst enemy. We have allowed so many roadblocks to be put in the way of industry that we price ourselves out of the market. It is not really the cheap labor that drives much of our manufacturing overseas - it is the unrealistic regulations that we've put in place. And, so far we just aren't smart enough to step back and say Whoa - enough is enough. We used to be a free country, and in some ways we still are but we are about the most regulated free country there has ever been. Someday (probably not in my lifetime) I expect the people here to wake up and demand the the government begin doing what it should have been doing all along - find ways to remove rather than construct barriers for a highly productive and hard working work force and allow them to compete on a level playing field. When that does happen we will really shine.

 

[Russianwolf]

an country without regulations?????

Do you really want to see what that can and does look like?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/10/video-chinas-toxic-wastelands-of-consumer-electronics-revealed/

 

[ashaw]

USA made kits is interesting. I said yes but here is the problem.

This past summer I was talking to a production machine shop that uses Swedish lathes. Provided he can produce 1000+ kits. Plating not his price would be $25.00/pen for a slimline type style. The parts still need to be plated. There are a couple of plating companies in this company most of them are over in China.

Something like a Majestic or Statesman would be in the $100.00/pen range. It all depends upon if the trim is cast or machined.

Remember there is also a setup charge which depends on the shop.

Alan

 

[timberbits]

Made in the USA? You might find that the question may not mean what you think it really means.

Made in Australia? might also be a similar question. I have quite a few friends in the high end garment industry which manufactures Made in Australia clothing. The whole shirt is made in Main Land China except the buttons and button holes. According to WTO and Australian law definition only the last 5% needs to be assembled and finished in Australia for the item to be called made in Australia. They sew in the buttons and put on the button holes, give it a wash and iron, then put the "Made in Australia" sticker on it.

Vehicles are the same. I found it interesting when one of the high end car wheel manufactures in South Australia went broke and was bought out by it's biggest customer - Harley Davidson Motor cycles. The spokesman for Harley Davidson said they produced the worlds best wheels are very competitively priced and they couldn't afford not to have this business go under. This only showed to me that one of the US made bikes had Australian wheels on them.

There are several things which make it hard for a totally made US pen kit. You might find that one day someone will call it a US made pen kit but only the last 5% is done in the US (all the components sources overseas are put into the bag in the US and a made in USA sticker on it).

The factors preventing this as highlight by previous post include high wages, EPS (Erin Brockovich - hexavalent chromium in drinking water issues). But another factor which I think is missed is the disparity of scrap metal price and new billet prices.

Pen parts are manufactured from solid brass tubes. Even the brass tubes we use are not extruded from a machine that way, it is actually machined out a solid rod of brass tubes. In China and Taiwan, the waste (scrap) is sold back to the manufactures of the solid brass rods at a 20 - 30% price difference.

So if buy it in solid rod for $10/lb they will buy it back at $7/lb. This compares to us in the western world (I am not currently educated in the current price for brass) would buy the rods for about $25/lb and only get $2/lb as scrap. Pen component making is a very wasteful procedure so scrap metal prices are a important part of the equation. Ever turned a bowl and see all the wood shavings on the floor?

This is just another factor that we in the West seem to forget about.

There is a lot more too it as well but I will stop ranting now - Australia Too has become a non-manufacturing country, we are now nothing but the worlds mine pit and raw agricultural producer.

 

[Smitty37]

Much Stricter Standard

​

​

​

​

​

The United States has a much stricter standard for claiming something is US made. Historically, the Federal Trade Commission has held that a product must be wholly domestic or all or virtually all made in the United States to substantiate an unqualified claim to be made in the USA. i.e. Few, if any, of us pen turners can claim our products are made in the USA because most of the hardware parts come from outside the USA as does a substantial amout of the wood or other material we use.

Made in the USA? You might find that the question may not mean what you think it really means.

Made in Australia? might also be a similar question. I have quite a few friends in the high end garment industry which manufactures Made in Australia clothing. The whole shirt is made in Main Land China except the buttons and button holes. According to WTO and Australian law definition only the last 5% needs to be assembled and finished in Australia for the item to be called made in Australia. They sew in the buttons and put on the button holes, give it a wash and iron, then put the "Made in Australia" sticker on it.

Vehicles are the same. I found it interesting when one of the high end car wheel manufactures in South Australia went broke and was bought out by it's biggest customer - Harley Davidson Motor cycles. The spokesman for Harley Davidson said they produced the worlds best wheels are very competitively priced and they couldn't afford not to have this business go under. This only showed to me that one of the US made bikes had Australian wheels on them.

There are several things which make it hard for a totally made US pen kit. You might find that one day someone will call it a US made pen kit but only the last 5% is done in the US (all the components sources overseas are put into the bag in the US and a made in USA sticker on it).

The factors preventing this as highlight by previous post include high wages, EPS (Erin Brockovich - hexavalent chromium in drinking water issues). But another factor which I think is missed is the disparity of scrap metal price and new billet prices.

Pen parts are manufactured from solid brass tubes. Even the brass tubes we use are not extruded from a machine that way, it is actually machined out a solid rod of brass tubes. In China and Taiwan, the waste (scrap) is sold back to the manufactures of the solid brass rods at a 20 - 30% price difference.

So if buy it in solid rod for $10/lb they will buy it back at $7/lb. This compares to us in the western world (I am not currently educated in the current price for brass) would buy the rods for about $25/lb and only get $2/lb as scrap. Pen component making is a very wasteful procedure so scrap metal prices are a important part of the equation. Ever turned a bowl and see all the wood shavings on the floor?

This is just another factor that we in the West seem to forget about.

There is a lot more too it as well but I will stop ranting now - Australia Too has become a non-manufacturing country, we are now nothing but the worlds mine pit and raw agricultural producer.

 

[Smitty37]

Fewer

an country without regulations?????

Do you really want to see what that can and does look like?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/10/video-chinas-toxic-wastelands-of-consumer-electronics-revealed/

I know we can get along with a lot less regulation than we have without things looking like that. It isn't a choice of no regulations at all and being choked by regulations, there is a happy medium that I believe we have gone well beyond.

 

[jttheclockman]

It would be more than just a couple of bucks more, think double to triple.
The company would first have to invest millions of start-up dollars, to buy property, build a plant, hire workers that get benifits and decent wages, buy the machinery,set-up distributors, and most likley still import some raw materials. Keep dreaming that we're ever going to become a country of manufacturing plants again.

I think they would be a little higher but not double or triple. My guess would be less than 25%. But that doesn't matter, because the powers that be in the USA do not want us to be a manufacturing nation. They think we can maintain a high standard of living by processing medical bills. We can't but they think we can.

We Americans are our own worst enemy. We have allowed so many roadblocks to be put in the way of industry that we price ourselves out of the market. It is not really the cheap labor that drives much of our manufacturing overseas - it is the unrealistic regulations that we've put in place. And, so far we just aren't smart enough to step back and say Whoa - enough is enough. We used to be a free country, and in some ways we still are but we are about the most regulated free country there has ever been. Someday (probably not in my lifetime) I expect the people here to wake up and demand the the government begin doing what it should have been doing all along - find ways to remove rather than construct barriers for a highly productive and hard working work force and allow them to compete on a level playing field. When that does happen we will really shine.

Smitty

Honestly how can you say that labor is not the main factor here. You have to be kidding. Those people working in those sweat shops for peanuts would never fly here and SHOULD never fly here. It is dispicable what these countries do to exploit their labor force. Like I said there is enough blame to go around for all to accept. You can start with gov. and regulations. Then you can go to greed by these companies to pay all the so called CEO all these bonuses. Then there is the American people who demand the lowest prices they can get and why because the $$$ has to be spread thinner and thinner everyday. You turn that around and you bring manufactoring back here. Until then cheap labor wins. I see this every single day and every single day non union labor takes jobs away from me. Why cause it is cheaper. Cheaper is not always better.

 

[ctubbs]

Smitty, our government NEVER EVER does anything in moderation. It is always hell bent for leather and Devil take the hind most. I am old enough to remember before OHSA or EPA came into effect. I remember air around our plants so thick we had to turn on the headlights five miles outside their fences just so oncoming traffic and people could see us and not run us over. That was here in the farm land of west Kentucky. I was in Pittsburg in 67 and the air was so full of smoke from the steel mills that I could look across the valley from one hill to where the furnaces were and only able to find their location when they tapped so the red glow of molten steel would gently dispel the darkness. Do we wish to go back to those conditions? Not me, no, not me! But when we start to dismantle the EPA or OSHA regs, that is exactly where we are heading. I have seen running water catch on fire and burn. I have seen raw hydrochloric acid openly dumped into our water ways. I have observed tons of refrigerant dumped into the atmosphere. The list goes on and on but I will cut this one short. Are we over regulated? Yes, but for very good reason. Our industrial leaders will cut any corner possible to save a penny. Alright, I am now officially off my soap box. Sorry for the over long post. I would promise not to do it again, but you all would know I was lying.
Charles

 

[pens by david]

owner

I would buy period,most folks will buy USA products........

David in Beautiful Coeur d Alene,Idaho

 

[wouldentu2?]

It would cost a lot less than you think for it to be made in america, but it would take volume like they put out over seas. Remember it is not that it costs so much for each pen t is the vast quantity they produce and we desire.

 

[ed4copies]

Even though the USA made kits are going to be more expensive. If the quality is there, I'll buy them. Since I sell completed pens. I would just offer the USA made completed pens at a premium. There are plenty of buyers willing to pay the extra for domestic made products.

Exactly!