My method of photo'ing a pen

[randyrls]

What do you think?

Excellent quality! but may be slightly under exposed. There may be a smudge on the tip of the pen. At this level of quality, you will see every imperfection.

 

[azamiryou]

What do you think?

I think that photo sure shows the power of HDR!

I would prefer it with slightly less brightness on the "background", especially towards the bottom of the photo. It feels overexposed and "blown out" to me.

Not everyone agrees with me (see post above), so you get to make your own choice. How does the photo compare to the actual pen?

Your HDR software may let you adjust this with the photos you've got. Otherwise, you could try slightly shorter exposures, like EV -1.3/-0.3/+0.7 for a darker image, or longer (-0.7/+0.3/+1.3) for a brighter image.

The important thing, though, is what you think and how the photo compares to the pen.

 

[SDB777]

Thanks for your help. I gave it a try this weekend. Here is what I got:

Here is what it looks like after putting it into photoshops HDR:

What do you think?

You accomplished what I had intended to teach everyone here about.

Thanks for trying this method.


Scott

 

[rizaydog]

Well I had some time to play last night. Using the same pen, I took more pics and merged them. I got the smudge off and took the three pics again. I changed my lighting a little. Then I adjusted the exposure and curve in photoshop. Let me know what you think.

 

[rizaydog]

I also tried this meathod on some nested bowl sets.

Small set 6", 10", 12":

Medium set 8", 12", 14":

Large set 7", 10", 13", 15":

 

[SDB777]

Yes, the method works for just about every type of 'object' you can think of....I started using this while taking photo's of a place in NewHampshire...the sun was at the wrong angle and I had no time to wait for it to come up the next day. Blasted off about 20 shots using different EV values and loaded up the truck.

Basically, we're taking the blow-out spots and tossing those, and then we're taking the too dark spots and tossing those and blending everything together(well, technically the program does this, all "we're" doing is waiting for the blinking finger).




Scott (nice bowls BTW) B

 

[Twissy]

Below are my results of trying this method, although I only used -1 0 +1.
Camera is Canon EOS 300D.
AEB set to -1 0 1
WB-BKT 0
Manual WB (took picture of blank tent)
F10
Software Adobe PE 2.0 (photo merge).
Cheap studio tent with 2 50 Watt halogens (bluish tint of front of GU10 bulbs).

My main gripe is that the pictures don't show the gloss finish of the pen....it looks more like a friction polish finish! Before reading this excellent thread I would have probable chosen the +1 image, but can now see that there is not as much contrast as the merged output.

There's very little difference between the output and the zero.

Is it worth changing the bulbs to 6.4K Daylight bulbs?

Result -1 +1 0

 

[Sawdust Maker]

Scott

Absolutely brilliant
thanks for putting this up

now to make a pen and take a photo (or 3):biggrin:

 

[azamiryou]

Below are my results of trying this method, although I only used -1 0 +1.

The result looks dark and underexposed to me, probably because the camera is compensating for the white background.

Since you like the +1 (and I agree it looks pretty good), use that for the middle. Leaving everything else the same, try taking a set at 0, +1, and +2 for your HDR image.

 

[Twissy]

Below are my results of trying this method, although I only used -1 0 +1.

The result looks dark and underexposed to me, probably because the camera is compensating for the white background.

Since you like the +1 (and I agree it looks pretty good), use that for the middle. Leaving everything else the same, try taking a set at 0, +1, and +2 for your HDR image.

Read this and thought brilliant! Unfortunately my camera will only allow brcketing equal sides of zero.
I did notice that I even though I'd saved the manual WB I hadn't activated it. That done I set bracketing to +&-1.3. In the photo merge I only merged the zero and +1.3.

Zero bracketing


+1.3


Merge Output



Looks quite good, but I think could still do with a bit more light.

Clicked on the "auto correct" in Microslop picture manager and got this:



Certainly increases the contrast, but is it a bit too much?
Thanks for the help by the way!

I'll eventually get the hang of adding pictures to forums too!!! Wouldn't let me link to a picasa picture.

 

[azamiryou]

Read this and thought brilliant! Unfortunately my camera will only allow brcketing equal sides of zero.

If your camera can do it (it probably can), you can bracket around something other than 0 using the manual mode. I don't know your camera, so the following may not apply - but try it and see.

Set the camera to manual mode.
Turn the bracket function on (set for +/- 1.0 EV)
Set the aperture to the highest number the camera will allow.
EV should be displayed somewhere on the screen; as you make the shutter speed longer, the EV will go up. Set the shutter speed so that the EV is +1.
Take the picture (the camera automatically takes all three).

Good luck!

 

[Twissy]

Read this and thought brilliant! Unfortunately my camera will only allow brcketing equal sides of zero.

If your camera can do it (it probably can), you can bracket around something other than 0 using the manual mode. I don't know your camera, so the following may not apply - but try it and see.

Set the camera to manual mode.
Turn the bracket function on (set for +/- 1.0 EV)
Set the aperture to the highest number the camera will allow.
EV should be displayed somewhere on the screen; as you make the shutter speed longer, the EV will go up. Set the shutter speed so that the EV is +1.
Take the picture (the camera automatically takes all three).

Good luck!

You sir are a genius!!

I don't think I would have got there just from the manual. Your explanation of moving the centre point by changing the shutter speed was spot on....I was previously on auto shutter speed/manual aperture. I did the shots on F11. Is that still okay, or should I have increased it?

This picture is from the 3 bracketed shots merged:



This is from 0 & +1. A tad over?



What do you think?

So grateful for all your help, and any further suggestions will be gratefully received!

 

[azamiryou]

I did the shots on F11. Is that still okay, or should I have increased it?

A higher number aperture means a smaller hole for the light to come through; the smaller hole makes for a deeper field of focus in exchange for a longer exposure (it takes more time to get the same amount of light through the smaller hole).

Depth of field is the "range" of focused parts of the photo. For example, if you point the pen a bit toward the camera and focus on the center band, the center will be in focus but both the near and far ends will be out of focus. I'm sure you've seen pen photos like this.

There are formulas and on-line calculators to predict the depth of field, but you don't need all that - just know that the higher the number, the easier it is to get your whole pen in focus.

The trade-off is that you need a longer shutter speed, but using a tripod and photographing a still subject, that's not important. That's why I say to make it as high as it'll go. But honestly, any value that gets the whole pen in focus is fine. You may even choose to go lower to intentionally put things out of focus!

This picture is from the 3 bracketed shots merged:

View attachment 68867

This is from 0 & +1. A tad over?

View attachment 68868

What do you think?

The first one is good on the lower part of the pen, but I think it's a little too dark on the top of the pen. I also prefer the brighter background of the second one, but I feel like the lower part of the pen there is too bright.

Does your HDR software let you make adjustments before generating the photo? Mine lets me play with contrast, move the white/black/gray points around, and also increase or decrease the detail in the highlights, midtones, and shadows.

So with my software, I'd use the three photos (as in your first one), but brighten the shadows a bit and bring out the detail in the cap.

 

[Twissy]

I tried playing with the contrast and brightness but when I improved the top half it was to the detriment of the bottom half.

What I have done is lower my camera so it is more level with the pen, and change the F stop to 25. The aperture has definitely improved the sharpness....but boy is the shutter open for a long time! I will be getting myself a better tripod I can see!

I think there is an improvement, but would welcome the comments from a trained eye!

All pictures are merged from the three bracketed around +1.

 

[azamiryou]

I tried playing with the contrast and brightness but when I improved the top half it was to the detriment of the bottom half.

Hmmm, this is exactly the sort of problem HDR should help with. With my software, I can make adjustments to the dark areas (the cap) without changing the bright areas (the bottom half).

I think there is an improvement, but would welcome the comments from a trained eye!

All pictures are merged from the three bracketed around +1.

They keep getting better! That said, I think the contrast is too low on these. I used my software's "levels" function to adjust one (this gives better control than the regular contrast/brightness controls). What do you think?

 

[Twissy]

Your picture definitely looks better! I was only using the basic brightness/contrast adjustment. I've now had a play with the "levels" and had a go at redoing the first two from above:





I've also done pictures of another pen I made today, but now sure if I haven't gone too far now! It's amazing how much variation there is depending on what the picture is of.



I think I'm going to need to iron my backing cloth!

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[azamiryou]

I want to clarify that "levels" is a separate thing from the HDR adjustments I was talking about.

With my software, the HDR function opens a window where you can pick multiple images to combine and create an "HDR Image" - this is a different file format and contains all the data from all the photos. After I do that, in the same window I can make adjustments; these adjustments use data from all the photos, so there's less tendency for a fix in one area to make another area worse. After I have the photo looking how I want it, I can click a button to generate a regular (non-HDR) image based on those settings.

Once I do that, I have an image I can manipulate the same as any other with contrast and brightness, levels, color balance, cropping, and so on, and save as a JPEG.

What I did with your photo was this post-processing, nothing to do with HDR. If, with your software, you can make adjustments as you make the HDR image, then I think you can get better results than I did.

 

[Twissy]

Unfortunately I'm still on version 2 of Adobe Photo Shop Elements, which I think is from around 2002!!!! The only changes I can make after merging is rotating the picture!

I'll have to keep my eye open for some new software, but at the moment any funds are going into pen making!

You have steered me in the right direction, and undoubtedly improved my photo's.

 

[SDB777]

Twissy,

If I may make one very small suggestion for your photo-tent....
Get a large enough piece on white construction type paper that you can curve up the back wall. It'll give the impression to the viewer of your photo's that the 'plane' goes on forever....that, and there won't be a seam in the background to distract the view.




Everyone that is trying this simple experiment is doing great! Keep on looking, and keep on shootin' them photo's!!!



Scott

 

[Twissy]

Thanks for your input Scott. I've been meaning to iron the white cloth since I got it!!! Spent so much time making pens of late that I've not had much time to spend on other things.
Downloaded Photomatix and had a bit of a play seems quite user friendly, but most of the things you can do with it are way over my head! Anyway, this is the result.
Thank you all for your help, and as usual any feedback more than welcome.

 

[SDB777]

The PhotoMatix program keeps evolving, there's no doubt about that.....and 85% of what it can do-well, I just don't use it(at least for this type of photography). Just looking to get rid of the shadows and blowouts from typical photography, without needing to spend a day in PhotoShop Version-of-too-much-money....



I have played with the 'grunge look' from time-to-time for shooting old barn lofts and stuff like that, and it is fun to do.



Twissy, really liking that fountain pen you have here. Awesome turningz!!!






Scott

 

[Twissy]

Twissy, really liking that fountain pen you have here. Awesome turningz!!!
Scott

Do you mean the cheats carbon fibre scott? I feel a cheat when I sell these but they are good sellers!

 

[vthowe]

which settings on this camera do i use?

Hey there...here are the settings in my camera to do AEB...not sure exactly how these line up with what we're trying to do here? I did get it to take 3 shots but they look all the same.

Thoughts???

Bracketing in continuous modeEdit
Bracketing is the practice of making several exposures of a scene, with each exposure differing from the next by predetermined steps in exposure or focus settings. Bracketing is used to easily capture a range of exposures so that the best exposure can be selected at a later time. Bracketing is also used to create a series of exposures which will be combined using methods such as HDR processing.
The bracketing features are enabled when the camera drive mode is set to continuous, and custom timer with some models


Usage Tip: If you wish to fire off individual frames and still have bracketing for each one,
after the first shot, lightly let-up on the shutter button to a half- press position.The next
full-press will give you another bracketed shot. This process may be repeated for as
many bracketing steps as you need. Giving you finer control over the number of bracketed
exposures you may require.

Set camera Custom Timer in Canon Menu

TV bracketing value...[Off, 1/3 – 4 Ev]
Set this value to bracket via exposure time. A value of 1 will double or halve the exposure time for the following exposures.

AV bracketing value...[Off, 1/3 – 4 Ev]
Set this value to bracket via aperture. A value of 1 will open or close the aperture by 1 stop for the following exposures.
Subj. Dist. Bracket Value...[0 – 100]
Set this value to enable focus bracketing. This feature is only enabled during manual focus mode. This feature allows you to specify the manual focus distance in millimeters. This value is multiplied by the Value factor below to arrive at the final value.
Value factor (mm)...[Off, 1, 10, 100, 1000]
Used as a multiplier for Distance bracketing value.
ISO bracketing value...[0 – 100]
Set this value to bracket via ISO. This value is multiplied by the Value factor below to arrive at the final ISO value that will be used for bracketing. A value of 2, with a Value factor of 10, will increase or decrease the ISO by 20 for following exposures.
Value factor...[Off, 1, 10, 100]
Used as a multiplier for the ISO bracketing value.
Bracketing type...[+/-, –, +]
BRACKET in the OSD. With all bracketing types the first exposure uses the current exposure settings of the camera. On following exposures the exposure settings are adjusted as described below.
+/-
This bracketing type will alternatively apply the bracketing value by first increasing then decreasing the exposure value. The sequence goes like this…
0 Ev, +1Ev, -1Ev, +2Ev, -2Ev, +3Ev, -3Ev, etc. Bracketing will continue until you release the shutter. For example, TV bracketing is set to "1 Ev", and when you half-press the :shutter you notice an exposure time of 1 second. When you fully depress the shutter you will get exposures at these times: 1 sec, 1/2 sec, 2 sec, 1/4 sec, 4 sec, 1/8 sec, 8 sec, 1/16 sec, 16 sec, etc.
–
This bracketing type works as above but will only increase the exposure value. Using the above example, the exposure times would be 1 sec, 2 sec, 4 sec, 8 sec, etc.Once the camera's limit is reached, subsequent exposures will occur at the maximum setting.
+
This bracketing type works as above but will only decrease the exposure value. Using the above example, the exposure times would be 1 sec, 1/2 sec, 1/4 sec, 1/8 sec. Once the camera's limit is reached, subsequent exposures will occur at the minimum setting.
Clear Bracket Values on Start Enable [●] / Disable [ ]
Enable this option to turn off bracketing when the camera is turned off.
Add raw-suffix Enable [●] / Disable [ ]
In bracketing mode you now have the option to add a suffix to the raw filename, so that later you can easily identify the RAWs that were created during bracketing, it is disabled at default.

 

[turner.curtis]

have not read through all the pages although figured with some of the questions raised on application costs that I would mention another application that you can use for HDR sewing is Hugin. The upside to Hugin is that it is opensource, ie free. I use it to sew my manual panoramas together although it can be used for stunning HDR as well though of course YMMV. Hugin - Panorama photo stitcher

 

[azamiryou]

I did get it to take 3 shots but they look all the same.

Thoughts???

If they look the same, the exposure didn't change. So the question is, why not?

1. The bracketing features are enabled when the camera drive mode is set to continuous
2. Subj. Dist. Bracket Value...[0 – 100]
3. ISO bracketing value...[0 – 100]
4. Bracketing types... Once the camera's limit is reached, subsequent exposures will occur at the maximum (minimum) setting.

I've called out the parts of the instructions that seem to indicate ways this might occur.

1. Did you hold down the shutter to take the 3 photos, or click the shutter 3 times? It sounds like for your camera, you need to hold the shutter down, or possibly there's some way to set it up with the timer. You want to get all the shots with a single press of the shutter.
2. If you're bracketing on subject distance, it won't change the exposure, just the focus.
3. If you're bracketing on ISO, it won't change the exposure, just the ISO setting. (Maybe - it's not clear whether it changes the shutter time to compensate for the change in the ISO.)
4. If the initial exposure is at the camera limit, it might not be able to do the bracketing.

This is just wild guessing from the text you provided, as I don't have the camera in front of me to try it out. But maybe this will help.

By the way, I don't understand what it's saying about using the timer, but it's probably worth it for you to figure it out - you DON'T want to have to hold the shutter down while it takes the photos.

 

[vthowe]

Thanks! No, it's set on a timer...currently a photo each second x 4...will go up to 6 I think. I believe I'm coming closer to getting it figured out...need to do more testing AND a tri-pod.

It's funny when there are a lot of options it makes you think you need to use them all! I think it's only the TV and bracketing type +/- that I need to mess with?

 

[azamiryou]

I think it's only the TV and bracketing type +/- that I need to mess with?

Yes! (I forgot to say that.) Turn TV bracketing ON to 1 or 1.3 EV, and all the others OFF. And you want the type to be +/-.

1/3 EV is not much, if that's the setting you had it on it's possible the photos were actually different but the differences were too subtle for you to see.

Glad you can use the timer. You will definitely want a tripod and timer for doing HDR, so the photos align. In the meantime, though, you can experiment with the bracketing feature and get used to using it.

I'm jealous that your camera does focus bracketing: with the right software, you can use that to create an arbitrarily deep focus. In other words, you could make a photo that shows your pen end-on, with the whole pen in focus! But that's another thread, I think...

 

[SDB777]

Hope that everyone has seen some usefulness from this set-up....






Scott (bump for the new folks) B

 

[SDB777]

Just a bump.




Scott B

 

[SDB777]

Haven't brought this one around for awhile.....



Scott (new eyes might like it) B

 

[rizaydog]

Ok guys I need some help. I just got a nikon d5000 and I can't figure out this auto bracketing. I set the camera to manual. I set the F to 8. And the other setting ranges from 30 to 1/4000. My old camera was easy. I would take a pic at 0, +1, -1. I don't know what to set the second setting at to get a good picture.
I found out how to turn auto bracketing on. However it doesn't take all 3 pictures. It looks like it changes the exposure setting by 1 after I take one exposure. However, I though auto braketing would take all 3 pic with one press of the button. Is this wrong?

 

[azamiryou]

The 30 to 1/4000 setting is the shutter speed, in seconds. To find the correct setting, temporarily put your camera in 'A' (aperture override) mode, set the aperture, then depress the shutter button half way. The camera should display the shutter speed it chose. For best results, do this while aiming at a gray card - but if you don't have one, just aiming at your pen should get you in the ballpark*. Make a note of the shutter speed, switch back to manual, and use that shutter speed with the same aperture.

For auto bracketing, some cameras may require you to hold the shutter down while it takes the three photos (IMHO opinion, a stupid design decision). Are you using the timer or remote? My camera requires you to hold it down if you're directly clicking the shutter button, but fires all three automatically when I use the remote. I'm not sure, but I think the timer function also fires all three automatically.

* When you do this, the camera examines the light levels across the picture and tries to find a good balance, so if too much of the scene is white or black, it can get thrown off. If you have a black background, it will choose an exposure time that is too long (to pull all that black up to gray); if you have a white background, it will choose an exposure that is too short (to try to push all that white down to gray). So if you don't have a gray card and you just use the scene you're going to photograph, you may have to adjust. For example, if you're taking a picture of a pen on a black background and it chooses a .5 second exposure time, you may want to try it at like .3 or 1/4 second.

 

[rizaydog]

Thank you for your reply. I'll give that a try...
I do use a remote. Maybe I'll try the timer and see if it will do all three exposures that way.

 

[azamiryou]

Also look for an option on the screen where you set up auto bracket, maybe there's a stetting for it.

 

[butchf18a]

Sounds like you've recieved good advice. My canon requires 3 separate button pushes

 

[SDB777]

Sounds like you've recieved good advice. My canon requires 3 separate button pushes

Have a Sony, Canon, and cheap Kodiak that requires pushing the button three times also.
The Sony is supposed to do AutoBracketing, but it does it in .33/0/-.33 only. And that isn't enough information to bother with.



Scott (let's get to a 100,000 views here) B

 

[azamiryou]

Have a Sony, Canon, and cheap Kodiak that requires pushing the button three times also.
The Sony is supposed to do AutoBracketing, but it does it in .33/0/-.33 only. And that isn't enough information to bother with.

I'm not looking forward to the day I have to replace my camera, but I know it's coming. Guess now I also know to look out for bracketing "features" that suck.

While it would be a pain in the backside, you can do manual bracketing if you have a good heavy tripod and software that will ensure the images are properly aligned. It's such a pain, though, I'd reserve it for only pens that really need it.

 

[RosezPenZ]

to Scott (lets keep bumping it) B
so I've been a member here several years and never seen/taken time to read this. I will admit I dont get on a lot or when I do I dont have a lot of time to just read. After reading thru all 12 pages tonight I think I see what your getting at and will have to go home and look at my camera to see what I can do because I want to be able to show off the grain.

 

[RosezPenZ]

Scott,
I dont have any place to buy tripods locally except walmart and best buy. How do I know I am getting a rock solid tripod when I buy one online without spending a hundred plus dollars?

 

[azamiryou]

Truth be told, even a flimsy tripod will be a huge improvement over none and work fine for many purposes. I've got a cheap one I've been using for years. I could spend a hundred-plus dollars to get a much better one, but I haven't had the need. Light weight is also handy for portability.

Just use a remote or timer to make sure you don't get camera shake from pressing the shutter button.

One situation where you would need a solid, heavy tripod is if you have to touch the camera between shots when bracketing for HDR. If you touch the camera, it will move, and this will affect the alignment of the photos during the HDR process. How much this matters depends on how well your HDR software handles misalignments. A solid tripod helps minimize camera movement.

If you don't have to touch the camera between shots (for example, if your camera's auto-bracketing gives you the spread you want with just one shutter click, or you are able to control the exposure settings and shutter remotely), then just about any tripod or other camera mount will work.