More Carbatec 4VS Problems

[wdcav1952]

Don Williams sang a song years ago called "It Only Rains On Me." It seems appropriate here.

Tech Support at PSI was very helpful. The man told me where the brushes go and how to change them. However, (However, is one of the most dreaded starts to a sentence that I know!) one of the screws was coated with CA, varnish, and everything imaginable. After soaking, scraping, cursing, and twisting, the screw, which is non-metallic, broke into many little pieces. No problem, I'll just amend my order to add a couple of screws so I will have a spare. <s>No</s> Problem! The screws are not a part numbered item and cannot be ordered like bearings, brushes and the like. They did not have any in the shop, so they will have to talk to the factory in China to see about getting any more screws. (Insert more, very advanced, curse words here!) He did suggest that if I can find threaded plastic rod that I can fabricate my own screw. Sigh, I have to admit total ignorance here. How can I determine the threading of the remaining screw? Made in China, metric threading seems logical, but who knows? Can I take it to Lowes and find out the appropriate threading? I have found some sources for threaded plastic rod online, just need to figure out what threading I need.

Thanks in advance for any help and for keeping the laughter to a minimum.

 

[samuel07]

Try a hobby shop that sells Rc airplanes. they sell lots of nylon screws and stuff of various sizes. If nothing else drill and tap the hole to a standard size.

Hope that helps.

 

[alamocdc]

Cav, my local Ace hardware store (small town) has a nice selection of metric screws in metal and nylon. Give yours a try.

 

[Dario]

Bring a sample screw to car parts dealers. Most of them carry metric. Lowes and HomeDepot also have some and they usually have a sample (nut or screw) tester by the wall.

 

[wdcav1952]

Thanks for the advice. I will take my one remaining screw (no comments from you, Angela) and see what I can match up.

 

[Paul in OKC]

I'd go to an Ace hardware as well, I get lots of things there! They do have a great variety of fasteners.

 

[angboy]

Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />Thanks for the advice. I will take my one remaining screw (no comments from you, Angela) and see what I can match up.

All I can say is that if this indeed your one remaining screw, then my heart goes out to you[V][V]! Here's my advice- make it last as long as possible, use lots of variety and always remember to report back here about the whole process used- maybe even consider writing a tutorial!

Now for the stupendous advice about where to look for the needed part- I'd say try your local ACE hardware, an auto parts store, or a hobby store. I'm sorry it took a little while for me to be able to answer your question- it's just a shame no one else was able to think of these great ideas earlier. But then, what more would you expect? [}][}]

 

[Randy_]

WC: Glad to read that this problem has been happily resolved. Somehow, I totally missed this thread until I saw your posting that the problem had been resolved. Nonetheless, I am puzzled and have a question that may help other VS owners who might run into the problem in the future.

All electric motor brushes that I have ever seen are located inside the motor case and are spring loaded rather being held in place by screws. Being internal parts, I am puzzled as to how these "screws" got covered with the mentioned crud? Are these "screws" located on the outside of the motor case and used as "caps" to keep the brush and its spring in its little square receptacle inside the motor housing? When I first read your post, the word screw conjured up the vision of a tiny little machine screw maybe like a 6/32; but now I'm thinking it might be more like a 1/2" or 3/8" in diameter? Maybe you could post a picture, so we all would understand exactly what you are talking about? I have seen some of those caps covered with a little varnish or sealant to keep them from backing out due to motor vibration. However, I'm guessing that in this case, the residue that caused the problem is from your pen finishing process??

Obviously, for you and others who have VS motors, it would be prudent to cover those screws/caps with a piece of duct tape or something similar to prevent this problem. My TIA for any additional information that you can add to the discussion.

And one last question...did you acetone to try to free the "screws" or some other solvent?

 

[wdcav1952]

Randy,

Good points, where were you when I was screwing up my lathe?!? [8D]

I will take a few pictures tonight in the hope I can let someone else profit from my miscues. Yes, the brushes are internal and spring-loaded. They are accessed by two screw caps (better term than screws) that are located on the topside and underside of the motor. The one on the topside of the motor is directly under the ways (rails?) of the lathe. Using CA, or any finish applied on the lathe results in residue on the top of the motor. Yes, this is bad on my part. I used acetone and scraping to get to the screw cap, but damaged it in the scraping process. Then, acetone would run down through the screw threads so I thought I could remove it. Since the flathead screw slot on the cap had been damaged, when I tried to turn the cap it shattered. My friend Howard who also has a Carbatec learned from my misfortune (also his lathe is barely a year old and has much less gunk on it) so he did no scraping and soaked his loose with acetone. The Grizzly VS lathe has a plastic cover over the access to the brushes, which is a better idea. Once I get the parts in and the lathe working, I will definitely put some tape over the cap area to prevent future problems.

 

[Chuck Key]

Wondering if these Motor Brush Retainers would fit?

Chuckie

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />Randy,

Good points, where were you when I was screwing up my lathe.....

Answer to that is easy, WC. I was writing a post that suggested your problem was more likely to be in the electronic control than the brushes......goes to show what I know???[B)]

Your additional comments have clarified a lot for me and I now feel like we are on the same page. Those caps are usually made out of a very hard and brittle material that I have always called phenolic and they are easy to break. I have ruined one or two even when they weren't glued in. You are very lucky that PSI had some replacements. I'm guessing there a hundred different sizes of those little buggers and you would be hard-pressed to find a replacement other than with the original source.

Glad to see things are well under control and yes, I bet there are a number of people here who will profit from your temporary misfortune!!

Anyone who has a mini lathe with electronic VS(not just a Carba-Tec) is potentially exposed to this problem and should take appropriate precautions!!

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by Chuck Key
<br />Wondering if these Motor Brush Retainers would fit?
Chuckie

I would not count on it; but it couldn't hurt to check. Those caps are for lathes with 1/2 & 3/4 HP motor. The Carba-Tec that WC has uses a smaller 1/4 HP motor so it would just be blind dumb luck if they fit.

 

[wdcav1952]

Chuckie,

I don't know if they would fit. The caps on my lathe are half inch and have 25 tpi threads. Thanks for the link, I'll keep it handy.

 

[Randy_]

Given that this stuff is Chinese, the caps probably have a metric thread. From what WC just posted, they are probably either M12x1 or M14x1. The M12 would have a major diameter of 0.4724" and the M14 would be 0.5512". Both would have 25.5 threads per inch.

WC: If you have a caliper or a micrometer, maybe you could measure one of the caps so we know exactly what the Carba-Tec requires. Thanks.

 

[Chuck Key]

I checked the major diameter on the cap from my mini mill which is the cap that the LMS version is suppose to fit and found it to be 11.70mm or .460". I tried the LMS cap in a DC VS motor on a Nova Mercury lathe and they did not fit. The Technatool cap did not fit the mini mill motor either[].

The above were quick measurements so they may be off by .0005 or so.

Chuckie

 

[wdcav1952]

The guys at Grizzly measured the cap for me. The diameter of the cap was dead on 0.5 inches. The thread pitch indicator seemed to indicate either 25 or 26 tpi, so the 25.5 tpi sounds reasonable.

 

[angboy]

I just want to point out that EVERYTHING in the pretty teal color that LOOKS like Randy wrote it, in truth came from me![] Like we're supposed to believe that he'd know what the diameter of a M12 is? Sure, THAT'S believable![}][}] I think what it is is that he's stealing my thoughts- right out of my head. But I guess the bottom line is that Cav got info that he needed...

Now I'm going to go google "M12" and find out what the heck that even is!

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />The guys at Grizzly measured the cap for me. The diameter of the cap was dead on 0.5 inches. The thread pitch indicator seemed to indicate either 25 or 26 tpi, so the 25.5 tpi sounds reasonable.

Thanks, WC. Now we have another small puzzle?? According to the information that I have seen on the Internet, there is no standard metric or American threading with a MD of 0.500" and a pitch of 25 or 26 tpi. The closest is 1/2" x 28 UNF, M12x1 or M14x1. Assuming the dimensions are correct, it would seem that the manufacturer of that motor is using a proprietary threading??

Note: The dimension mentioned by Chuckie is not standard either. I wonder if this is a safety feature of the electrical industry to prevent a novice from inserting a standard threaded "METALLIC" screw/bolt into the hole??

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by angboy
<br />I just want to point out that EVERYTHING in the pretty teal color that LOOKS like Randy wrote it, in truth came from me![] .....

So now the truth finally comes out. Angela has a split personality and 2 accounts on IAP.....who else except a girl would post in teal text, anyway?? Bet she uses pink stationary, too!![]

Hmmmmmm?? I have some pink underwear......no, no, no.....just another dirty old batch who occasionally forgets to separate his whites and colors.[B)][B)]

 

[angboy]

Originally posted by Randy_
<br />

Originally posted by angboy
<br />I just want to point out that EVERYTHING in the pretty teal color that LOOKS like Randy wrote it, in truth came from me![] .....

So now the truth finally comes out. Angela has a split personality and 2 accounts on IAP.....who else except a girl would post in teal text, anyway?? Bet she uses pink stationary, too!![]

Hmmmmmm?? I have some pink underwear......no, no, no.....just another dirty old batch who occasionally forgets to separate his whites and colors.[B)][B)]

Yep, I guess I'm busted! BTW, I don't use pink stationary, instead I use purple- another girly color (except Billy likes it and I wouldn't call him girly![:0]).

Now wait a minute, I'm really confused now- I'm posting a response to myself? This is a reflection of the technology age- like the commercial where the family calls each other on their cell phones but they're all on the same couch? That must be how I communicate with my Randy half- through the computer.

This is getting overwhelming, I think I'm going to go lay down...

 

[Randy_]

I think I will lay down, too!!

 

[wdcav1952]

TOGETHER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[angboy]

Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />TOGETHER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?

I think (but I'm not sure, b/c I'm still a little confused) that that would still mean there was only one person in the bed? [?][?]