Classifieds Overhaul

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Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
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Thinking a little

I have essentially been running a buying service for some high end components no longer sold by any other US Based Supplier. As I read the rules I will not be able to offer that service any longer. Am I reading correctly?

That doesn't hurt me because I don't make enough profit on them to dent my bottom line but I do think it is to the detriment of the membership that I apparantly won't be be able to continue these offers.

I don't know how else to draw the line other than at profit. We discussed this, and your buys specifically, for quite some time trying to see how they could be accommodated.

I don't know what you consider a "dent". What we were trying to avoid was the situation where someone was using member's money instead of their own to make a significant profit.

The only way I could see to accommodate this would be to remove the "on hand or committed to buy" provision. That opens things up to those who want to risk member funds rather than their own while making a profit on the goods and the float.

I'd be very open to hear your specific suggestions on how to accommodate this while protecting members from profiteers who prefer to risk other people's money.

Jeff, since there seems to be very limited activity of this type perhaps you could make the wording such that prepayment ads can only be done with prior permission of the administrator. That would allow you to check the offer and make sure that it is fair to the members...and check the vendor making the offer so you can have reasonable confidence that he/she will deliver what they promise or make the buyers whole if they can't deliver.

I seriously doubt that you'll be inundated with requests.

I've done a number of these and no buyer has ever lost a penny on them and (unless I drop dead unexpectedly) no one ever will.
 
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MesquiteMan

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Another point to consider...

Most of the changes to the classifieds were created because of a few bad apples. You guys would not believe the amount of behind the scenes bickering we, as moderators, have had to deal with due to vendor battles. The VAST majority of reported posts have to deal with advertising issues of one sort or another. IAP has changed over the years from a small tight knit community with a little bit of selling going on to a large community with a LOT of selling going on. That is not necessarily bad, but the selling needs to be managed and confined to a specific spot on IAP so that folks who are here just for the sharing of knowledge can avoid the constant, in the face, advertising in all the wrong forums.

Part of the reason for charging to use the classifieds comes from the fact that there are quite a few who only come to IAP to sell. They have found this wonderful, focused market where they can sell their wares at no cost. They give ABSOLUTELY nothing back to IAP and do not even participate in the rest of the forum. They only come here to sell and have been able to do that in the past for free. There are also a lot of folks who make a LOT of money by selling at IAP. It is time for these folks and the folks who come here only to sell, to start carrying their own water so to speak.
 

Dave Turner

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I agree with Curtis in that part of the problem is a lack of awareness of how the IAP is organized. I know I was clueless until I read the Terms of Service.

Penturners.org is a private limited liability corporation owned by Jeffrey Brown of Westlake, OH. His company owns and runs this web bulletin board site. All the posts and library articles on the site become the property of Penturners.org LLC and its licensors. Anyone who obtains a username and password to use the bulletin board service becomes a member of IAP. The IAP otherwise does not exist outside the setting of this private corporation. "It has no formal governing structure or elected officials, no dedicated offices or facilities, and no assets..."

As the owner, Penturners.org LLC is free to make whatever site rules it sees fit. As a private company, it is not obligated to reveal its finances or how much profit or loss it sustains.

I would like to thank Jeff for providing this valuable service. I have learned much from my fellow members, who give freely of their knowledge and experience. This site is well run and I think Jeff has been very responsive in meeting the needs of the penturning community. I also want to thank all the moderators and any others that have helped make this site the preeminent pen-making resource it is today.
 

DurocShark

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A side note:

Have you considered selling banner ads? I don't know about vBulliten, but PHPBB and SMF both have pretty slick ad management modules out there.

My thinking is package deals... IE: Buy banner ads, get extra listings in the Classified.

TheSamba, for example, uses them as the sole revenue generator (or they were when I was last involved with them...)

Anandtech doesn't allow any commercial ads in the FS/FT forum, but sells advertising banners. (They're vBulletin too...)

I'm sure you guys have thought about that, but on the off chance that you haven't...
 

bitshird

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I've been hanging low, but Andrew pointed me to this thread, and from the company standpoint, I still think 20.00 a month is a bargain, Count Woodchuck Lathe Tools in.
Jeff does a great job with this site, and there are many thousands of dollars a month made with no fee charged for advertising so Pay up or Shut up!!!
 

MesquiteMan

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A side note:

Have you considered selling banner ads? I don't know about vBulliten, but PHPBB and SMF both have pretty slick ad management modules out there.

My thinking is package deals... IE: Buy banner ads, get extra listings in the Classified.

TheSamba, for example, uses them as the sole revenue generator (or they were when I was last involved with them...)

Anandtech doesn't allow any commercial ads in the FS/FT forum, but sells advertising banners. (They're vBulletin too...)

I'm sure you guys have thought about that, but on the off chance that you haven't...

I can not speak for Jeff specifically but I do know that he has told me many times that there will NEVER be any ads on IAP outside of the classifieds. That would turn IAP into just another commercial site. Also, there are still a lot of folks here on IAP that despise advertising in the wrong place (I am one) and nothing would be worse than having an ad shoved in your face on every page you visit like so many other sites. I even use adblock so that I do NOT have to see ads on other sites unless I want to see them. IAP is not a commercial venture to make a profit. Jeff keeps this place alive due to his commitment and love of penmaking. It has never been about making money and from what he tells me, it never will be. And from what he tells me, he puts more money into IAP of his own than he receives so it is truly a labor of love.

Heck, I am sure he could sell IAP for a SIGNIFICANT profit and not have to deal with all the crap that he deals with but has chosen to not do so.
 
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DurocShark

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That's cool. I completely understand your point of view.

The ads (banner ads that STAY IN ONE PLACE anyway) don't bother me. Kind of like commercials on broadcast TV. It's the price you pay for a free service. (Don't get me started on commercials on CABLE TV... grr...)
 

Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
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My Dad

Sorry Smitty, I have to ask: Who was the last person you knew who dropped dead EXPECTEDLY??

We expected him to die for at least a couple of weeks before he finally went. My neice and one of my brothers were also known to be dying for about a month before they went. Enough time that they could have passed on needed information to handle any outstanding transactions.:)
 

jeff

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A side note:

Have you considered selling banner ads? I don't know about vBulliten, but PHPBB and SMF both have pretty slick ad management modules out there.

My thinking is package deals... IE: Buy banner ads, get extra listings in the Classified.

TheSamba, for example, uses them as the sole revenue generator (or they were when I was last involved with them...)

Anandtech doesn't allow any commercial ads in the FS/FT forum, but sells advertising banners. (They're vBulletin too...)

I'm sure you guys have thought about that, but on the off chance that you haven't...

If you think this has been a difficult discussion, imagine introducing banner ads! :biggrin:

Let me say this about banner ads. I think we could introduce them and they'd eventually be something people would learn to tolerate. They could generate significant revenue. And I'm well aware of the technical means to implement them.

There are two reasons you won't see them here any time soon. 1 - One of our distinguishing features is that we don't have them, and I enjoy that. 2 - It's against my personal philosophy to follow the trend today to monetize every single thing that can be used to make a buck. It's gotten vulgar if you ask me. I see ads on places I just cannot believe we have stooped to using to make money. I am sick of the assault on my senses. Maybe I'm not hungry for money because I have a good day job (so watch out when I retire -- I'll be squeezing every penny I can out of your eyeballs!)

We will soon be rolling out a "marketplace" page which I believe is a tasteful and simple way to generate some additional revenue. We may at some future time allow some small and tasteful advertising in various ways, but for the moment, I think we're good :biggrin:
 

jeff

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I have essentially been running a buying service for some high end components no longer sold by any other US Based Supplier. As I read the rules I will not be able to offer that service any longer. Am I reading correctly?

That doesn't hurt me because I don't make enough profit on them to dent my bottom line but I do think it is to the detriment of the membership that I apparantly won't be be able to continue these offers.

I don't know how else to draw the line other than at profit. We discussed this, and your buys specifically, for quite some time trying to see how they could be accommodated.

I don't know what you consider a "dent". What we were trying to avoid was the situation where someone was using member's money instead of their own to make a significant profit.

The only way I could see to accommodate this would be to remove the "on hand or committed to buy" provision. That opens things up to those who want to risk member funds rather than their own while making a profit on the goods and the float.

I'd be very open to hear your specific suggestions on how to accommodate this while protecting members from profiteers who prefer to risk other people's money.

I don't have any suggestions. I just wanted to make sure I actually understood the rule.

If you don't want that activity on your site - so be it. It has been a lot of work for very little benefit other than I did gain some loyal customers and good friends.

With the market research tool I might be able to come up with a way to provide this service to the membership without breaking the rule. Who knows.

BTW. What I mean by not making a dent is that on the Dayacom purchases I've made....my profit has been less than 0 to date. I might make some profit if/when my inventory gets sold.

Jeff,

I'd like to encourage you to find a way to allow the kinds of buys Smitty does to continue to happen.

Yes, Smitty is using our pre-payments as capitol to reach purchase mimums, but I dont see anything wrong with this - we all know and understand what he is doing, and anyone who doesnt want to take the risk doesnt have to. We get the benefit of some great prices on kits -- as long as we dont mind waiting. This is a perfectly valid business model, and this is common on other venues (pre-purchasing wine before it is released comes to mind). It is a business model based on trust.

It is admirable for you to want to help protect IAP members from people trying to take advantage, but I'm not sure that is achievable. Risk is in every transaction we make. The vendors advertizing here are typically small one person (or family) concerns, often run by a retired person. With any transaction we take risk - who knows when something "unfortunate" will happen to any vendor.

The kinds of deals Smitty does only work with someone with a good reputation. Personally, I would not even think about entering such a deal with someone new to the IAP, and I waited before entering a deal with Smitty until I had a certain degree of confidence. Each of us personally can choose the amount of risk we can tolerate.

Personally, I'd rather have the option to do an advanced purchase deal - guaging risk vs. savings for myself - rather than not have the option. As long as the terms of the deal are clearly layed out, I see nothing wrong with them.

BTW, I have absolutely no association with Smitty, other than I participated in one of his buys.

We'll discuss this in the back room and see what we can come up with.
 

witz1976

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Bucksport, Maine, USA
I have no problem kicking $5 or $10 to advertise, now that I may be able to offer something worth advertising.

As for what this site makes or doesn't, I personally find it sickening that people have the kohonies to even ask about the financial details of this site or what Jeff makes or doesn't make. It's a business or group you do not own, so it is not your business. Do you go run down to your local hardware store and ask to see his books?

Sorry but that seriously rubbed me the wrong way...

Jeff & the volunteer mods, thank you for what you do and I hope you keep doing what you do!
 

G1Pens

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I have read this thread from start to it's current end. I am new here am reluctant to jump into this. But I would like to throw in my two cents worth.

First, I am extremely grateful for this forum. As a newbie it has been a great source of knowledge and encouragement. Without it, I doubt I would be where I am in making pens at this moment, and there is a good chance I would have given up and quit altogether. So thank you to Jeff and the mods for your time and financial investment into this forum.

Second, I have bought a lot...way too much...from various individuals here through the individual and business classifieds. I hope I can continue to do that. I have never had an issue with any transaction I have made.

From reading the posts here I get the feeling that the cost of $5 or $10 is not really and issue for most people. From what I read the concerns are more centered around some of the rule changes. I am just hoping that the changes being made will not result in fewer members offering their wares for sale.

Finally, I want to go on record as stating that I would have no issues with Jeff implementing a "paid member" category. I have no idea what that would involve as far as administration. But I for one would have no problem paying an annual fee to be able to have advanced use of the forum. I am thinking no paying members could read posts, but not reply or create new posts. Paying members would be able to do everythign we now do. With this model perhaps there could still be an individual classifieds section at no cost to paid members for one time sales...kind of like a garage sale area. Members who regularly offer blanks, pen kits, tools, etc, would still need pay for their ads in a separate area. (As a note: I would really like for Smitty to be able to still do his deals. I am aware of the (little) risk invoved in his special deal.

Finally. In the end it is Jeff's board and I will abide by whatever rules he decides to implement and I will still be grateful. I will still be an active member. I will still learn and try to help others. If I have anythign to sell to pen turners, I will meet his guidelines and pay his fees without griping.

After all, if we don't like it, we can just go away!
 

jeff

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Let me make one brief comment about the financial questions. Nobody "makes anything". Money received is either expended on legitimate needs to run the site and support the IAP, or it's in the bank. As the donation page says, "We're an all-volunteer operation. Nobody gets any salary or payment of any kind for their labor in connection with developing or supporting the site. Donated funds are used primarily to pay hosting and bandwidth costs, purchase site-support software and hardware, and obtain professional services."
 

MesquiteMan

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And go further with that, Jeff...the money that is in the bank is used to buy nice, cool prizes for the birthday bash and other events, provide capital for buying those nice mugs, etc. Nothing is going into Jeff's pocket or for his personal benefit.

BTW, Jeff, when is the Moderator and Manger's convention in Hawaii? Did you end up with the 5 star or 4 star hotels for us to stay in and are paying for first class or coach?:biggrin: (JUST KIDDING, OF COURSE!)
 

MesquiteMan

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With this model perhaps there could still be an individual classifieds section at no cost to paid members for one time sales...kind of like a garage sale area.

We have that in the current DOC...it is the Steals and Deals section. This is meant to be the garage/shop type of sales where you are not trying to make a profit and it is 100% free.
 

Texatdurango

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Well I sat here and read 95 posts after reading through the new "IAP Department of COmmerce" rules and gotta say.............. Looks like a LOT of work!

Jeff, I might have missed it somewhere along the lines (since some posts got a little blury) but I have a comment and a question that I didn't recall seeing an answer to.

As Curtis said, most of these changes were because of problems being caused by a few bad apples. Keeping in mind that these bad apples are still amongst us and bad apples being what they are, these characters will continue to seek ways around the rules as they always have.

With that in mind, one of the growing trends (In my opinion) I have seen in the past year is for "John Doe" to post a photo of a pen describing who made the blank, where the kit can be purchased and what a great outfit company X is for making the kit/blank available to them. Some of these posts make a person wonder... are they just totally tickled pink about the pen and are just compelled in sharing all the details or could there be another motive behind the post!

You briefly mentioned "Shill" posting and the rules I read addressed relatives, officers of a company, etc but I don't recall seeing anything that would curb this sort of "Advertising" by customers or just friends. A happy customer is one thing but a happy customer three times a week is advertising.......... or is it?

Is anything specifically spelled out addressing these types of posts by friends or customers of a vendor?
 
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Texatdurango

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......BTW, Jeff, when is the Moderator and Manger's convention in Hawaii? Did you end up with the 5 star or 4 star hotels for us to stay in and are paying for first class or coach?:biggrin: (JUST KIDDING, OF COURSE!)

I knew it! All you moderators are living large flitting about the globe enjoying lifes pleasures to the extreme. Two years ago I visited Curtis and the rest of the Central Texas bunch in San Marcos and I'd swear Curtis had a nice tan and was speaking with a bit of a Hawain drawl! This explains a lot!
 

Texatdurango

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.......There are two reasons you won't see them here any time soon. 1 - One of our distinguishing features is that we don't have them, and I enjoy that. 2 - It's against my personal philosophy to follow the trend today to monetize every single thing that can be used to make a buck. It's gotten vulgar if you ask me. I see ads on places I just cannot believe we have stooped to using to make money. I am sick of the assault on my senses. Maybe I'm not hungry for money because I have a good day job (so watch out when I retire -- I'll be squeezing every penny I can out of your eyeballs!)

Except for the eyball squeezing part, all I can say is ..... ATTA BOY!
 

arw01

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Very glad to see some accommodation being discussed to continue with the pre-buys and group purchases that are done.

Turkish Walnut comes to mind as a vendor that only sells here, does not seem to contribute. But I believe we all have the ability to ignore a particular poster? I'm making the point that if someone wants to complain about a vendor, go hit the ignore button for them.

I bought a few blanks and Ed's let's take a risk adventure when we as a group tried them for the first time. We all knew the risks and put our $25.00 into the kitty. I still have to rescue the remaining blanks from my son's stash every time he goes through the blank boxes!

Alan
 

MesquiteMan

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Turkish Walnut comes to mind as a vendor that only sells here, does not seem to contribute. But I believe we all have the ability to ignore a particular poster? I'm making the point that if someone wants to complain about a vendor, go hit the ignore button for them.

We are not wanting to run any of these types of vendors away, we just want them to help foot the bill.
 

PenMan1

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Thanks for NOT considering banners, Jeff.
My computer is fast enough for an old guy, losing my hair saves me a fortune on shampoo / haircuts and the best I remember my sex life was good too.
 

DocStram

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I've been a member of IAP since February, 2006. I lurked for a year before actually joining. Over the years, I've become dismayed by what I saw as the over commercialization of IAP. It's my feeling that the "family" atmosphere gave way to more and more people wanting to make a buck of off other members. In my book, family members don't financially profit from other family members. It's just how I see things.

I have caused Jeff and the other mods more than my fair share of grief over what I saw as people using IAP to line their pockets. I've written some pretty rough emails to Jeff, Curtis, and the other mods with my complaints. Some long term friendships were severed by my criticisms.

I've spent more than several hours today reading through the DOC regulations. Yes, there may be the need for some fine tuning, but, personally, I welcome the changes. There was obviously a whole lot of time and effort put into the new rules. I also appreciate the fact that Jeff and the mods are willing to consider revisions as needed.

Finally, I am appalled by the posts asking Jeff for an accounting of money donated to IAP. I've donated to IAP every year since I first joined. I would never want to insult Jeff by insinuating that he is profiting from the site. The fact is, I am a guest here. I donate money to help run the site because I trust Jeff. And that trust, is the bottom line.
 

ed4copies

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Thanks for NOT considering banners, Jeff.
My computer is fast enough for an old guy, losing my hair saves me a fortune on shampoo / haircuts and the best I remember my sex life was good too.

So, you are clearly saying you need some "memory enhancing vitamins"---let me tell you about these marvelous little pills you can take just ONCE every five minutes!!!!>>>>

See details in our BANNER AD!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

EBorraga

Passed Away July 17, 2022
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With that in mind, one of the growing trends (In my opinion) I have seen in the past year is for "John Doe" to post a photo of a pen describing who made the blank, where the kit can be purchased and what a great outfit company X is for making the kit/blank available to them. Some of these posts make a person wonder... are they just totally tickled pink about the pen and are just compelled in sharing all the details or could there be another motive behind the post!

This is one of the major problems I have. It's kind of like watching Ted Nugent's show "Call of the wild". I'm here in my Jones deer stand, with my Come Here Deer scent, and my Mathews Bow. I also have Bob's broad tips, and Johnny's Camo on. Just my opinion though.
 

tool-man

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Jeff
Let me first thank you so very much for this fine web site.

Regarding Smittys pre order sales, I have been a satisfied customer of his on several occasions. If you can find a way to allow these types of sales (one where the seller does not have the merchandise in hand or on order) I believe it would be of benefit to buyers. I know it has been for me. Thanks for listening.

I have essentially been running a buying service for some high end components no longer sold by any other US Based Supplier. As I read the rules I will not be able to offer that service any longer. Am I reading correctly?

That doesn't hurt me because I don't make enough profit on them to dent my bottom line but I do think it is to the detriment of the membership that I apparantly won't be be able to continue these offers.

I don't know how else to draw the line other than at profit. We discussed this, and your buys specifically, for quite some time trying to see how they could be accommodated.

I don't know what you consider a "dent". What we were trying to avoid was the situation where someone was using member's money instead of their own to make a significant profit.

The only way I could see to accommodate this would be to remove the "on hand or committed to buy" provision. That opens things up to those who want to risk member funds rather than their own while making a profit on the goods and the float.

I'd be very open to hear your specific suggestions on how to accommodate this while protecting members from profiteers who prefer to risk other people's money.

I don't have any suggestions. I just wanted to make sure I actually understood the rule.

If you don't want that activity on your site - so be it. It has been a lot of work for very little benefit other than I did gain some loyal customers and good friends.

With the market research tool I might be able to come up with a way to provide this service to the membership without breaking the rule. Who knows.

BTW. What I mean by not making a dent is that on the Dayacom purchases I've made....my profit has been less than 0 to date. I might make some profit if/when my inventory gets sold.

Jeff,

I'd like to encourage you to find a way to allow the kinds of buys Smitty does to continue to happen.

Yes, Smitty is using our pre-payments as capitol to reach purchase mimums, but I dont see anything wrong with this - we all know and understand what he is doing, and anyone who doesnt want to take the risk doesnt have to. We get the benefit of some great prices on kits -- as long as we dont mind waiting. This is a perfectly valid business model, and this is common on other venues (pre-purchasing wine before it is released comes to mind). It is a business model based on trust.

It is admirable for you to want to help protect IAP members from people trying to take advantage, but I'm not sure that is achievable. Risk is in every transaction we make. The vendors advertizing here are typically small one person (or family) concerns, often run by a retired person. With any transaction we take risk - who knows when something "unfortunate" will happen to any vendor.

The kinds of deals Smitty does only work with someone with a good reputation. Personally, I would not even think about entering such a deal with someone new to the IAP, and I waited before entering a deal with Smitty until I had a certain degree of confidence. Each of us personally can choose the amount of risk we can tolerate.

Personally, I'd rather have the option to do an advanced purchase deal - guaging risk vs. savings for myself - rather than not have the option. As long as the terms of the deal are clearly layed out, I see nothing wrong with them.

BTW, I have absolutely no association with Smitty, other than I participated in one of his buys.

We'll discuss this in the back room and see what we can come up with.
 

DurocShark

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With that in mind, one of the growing trends (In my opinion) I have seen in the past year is for "John Doe" to post a photo of a pen describing who made the blank, where the kit can be purchased and what a great outfit company X is for making the kit/blank available to them. Some of these posts make a person wonder... are they just totally tickled pink about the pen and are just compelled in sharing all the details or could there be another motive behind the post!

This is one of the major problems I have. It's kind of like watching Ted Nugent's show "Call of the wild". I'm here in my Jones deer stand, with my Come Here Deer scent, and my Mathews Bow. I also have Bob's broad tips, and Johnny's Camo on. Just my opinion though.

I disagree. A finished pen is a finished pen, regardless of the motives behind the post. Personally I still want to see the pen. And just because I sell my metal leaf blanks, does that mean I can never post a pen made with them?
 

tjseagrove

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557
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Hoosick Falls, New York
EBorraga said:
This is one of the major problems I have. It's kind of like watching Ted Nugent's show "Call of the wild". I'm here in my Jones deer stand, with my Come Here Deer scent, and my Mathews Bow. I also have Bob's broad tips, and Johnny's Camo on. Just my opinion though.

The difference is they pay $$$ for those mentions. And, we all know that is standard fare for sporting shows of that type.

Tom
 

PTownSubbie

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May 15, 2009
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Chesapeake, VA
Jeff and Mods,

I want to first say Thanks for letting me be a part of this great community! I have learned so much in my time here. I haven't gotten along great with everyone but we find ways to co-exist.:biggrin:

It is Jeff's house and every time you enter IAP you are a guest in "Jeff's Livingroom" watching his television. My house, my rules.....Jeff's house, Jeff's rules. Jeff and the staff have put in a ton of effort in making these changes. I remember talking to Curtis many months ago and he mentioned upcoming changes. I am surprised it took this long to implement them but they are fairly well thought out. Great Job!

Change is hard and we as users don't often think things through before we talk. I have been thinking about this all day from the time Jeff posted it this morning. I have even spoken with some IAP members about the changes and my perspective has changed throughout the course of the day. Those that don't like the changes....well, you don't have to partake. But if you like what you get here at IAP, I hope you rethink your participation and hop onboard!

The only thing I would like to see is what some others have already mentioned. The pre-sale purchases allow penturners to receive a good product with less capital. I for one have participated in almost all of Smitty's buys and fully understand the risk but it is a risk I am willing to take! I hope you all can find a way to allow him to continue this!

Thanks for making this a great community!
 

Texatdurango

Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
4,649
Location
Show Low, Arizona
...... A finished pen is a finished pen, regardless of the motives behind the post. Personally I still want to see the pen. And just because I sell my metal leaf blanks, does that mean I can never post a pen made with them?

Don, don't get me wrong, I LOVE seeing pens that people make, that is half of what this forum is all about. The SOYP is the FIRST forum I visit every day when I log on. I like seeing pens and discussing how we make them but seeing beautiful pens is one thing, having some members use this medium as just another way of showcasing theirs or others goods for sale is another.
 

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
24,534
Location
Racine, WI, USA.
Of course your signature can say: blahblahblah.com - home of the super duper metal leaf blanks.

Many people probably do NOT KNOW, you can go to the USER CP/edit options/thread display options, and de-select "view signatures" and you will not have to deal with this distraction---if you wish.
 

Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
In Memoriam
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Messages
12,823
Location
Milford, Delaware 19963
Yet...

...... A finished pen is a finished pen, regardless of the motives behind the post. Personally I still want to see the pen. And just because I sell my metal leaf blanks, does that mean I can never post a pen made with them?

Don, don't get me wrong, I LOVE seeing pens that people make, that is half of what this forum is all about. The SOYP is the FIRST forum I visit every day when I log on. I like seeing pens and discussing how we make them but seeing beautiful pens is one thing, having some members use this medium as just another way of showcasing theirs or others goods for sale is another.
Yet I fail to understand exactly how saying where they got the components or that they sell the blank used would interfere with your enjoyment of seening the pen? I frequently go to member's sites to look at the latest pens they have for sale with no intention of doing anything but looking at the pictures. I look at the SYOP in the same way even though I have posted only one of my own pens there and that was to show off somebody elses work. I don't even notice what the posters write about the pen.
 

Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
In Memoriam
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Messages
12,823
Location
Milford, Delaware 19963
Some of us do.

Of course your signature can say: blahblahblah.com - home of the super duper metal leaf blanks.

Many people probably do NOT KNOW, you can go to the USER CP/edit options/thread display options, and de-select "view signatures" and you will not have to deal with this distraction---if you wish.
I usually have it turned off in mine ---- get more posts on a page that way because they take up less room.
 
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SCR0LL3R

Member
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
390
Location
NS, Canada
I want to see the signatures, I wasn't complaining about them. I want to know what I can buy where.

I personally would prefer that a person could say where they got the material to make the pen, even if they made it themselves. Yes, this could be abused but I haven't found it to be abused so far. I know I don't make the rules... I'm just expressing my opinion.
 
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