Classifieds Overhaul

[alphageek]

Charging money for classifieds is fine. Please don't limit the sharing of information on a product just because it is for sale. The creator/modifier is the most knowledgeable person to ask - the very person who cannot provide public answers.

Don't worry Chris.. The rules have been written to specifically SEPARATE the information posts from the sales posts. Not to eliminate either.

We have a lot of members with tons of knowledge. We want them to share. Some of the separation of areas will just make it easier to ignore things you don't like. (not you specifically, but any member)

For example, a few people really don't like the praise of our vendors (no comments on this please - we don't need another dozen posts on if thats good, bad or other). Now those will get created in a specific spot - and if someone doesn't like it, look above to my post on how to not see things in your new posts... and don't go in there! Easily solved.

Dean
Asst Mod

 

[theidlemind]

VERY well summed up.
If there isn't a way to allow that kind of discussion the whole innovation thing is going to suffer.

And I like your signature quote, reminds me of my stepson.
That quote is also on my wife's screen saver.

I like being able to buy things through the classified sections.
I like finding out where someone got their components/blanks/doodads/freebies(or freebees (sic)) etc.
I like sharing where I got my stuff.
I like to praise a vendor for a good experience.
I like being able to get answers to questions from the seller in the thread.
I like have full information when making a special tool purchase.

A lot of the things I purchase are the results of a long thread with lots of feedback and answered questions - especially tools that are new to me.

If we can't get answers from vendors in their threads, doesn't that deprive the community of potentially valuable information?

Examples:
Carbide tools
Custom tool rests
Turning-between-centers - bushings, special centers...
Bottle stoppers
Pendants
Sanding mills
Taps and dies

Many of the above mentioned things that are commonly used now are the result of an idea that a vendor had and was able to adapt and modify based on the shared feedback of the community.

Would our potential penmaking benefit from NOT being able to ask Curtis how his vacuum chamber and Cactus Juice(r) works? How about the Pen Wizard - there was even a special forum set up to discuss that product.

How would I have learned how to use a die holder? Could George sell a Custom dual size die holder and still be allowed to have his previous "How to use a die holder video" on the site. Would that be considered "sneaky marketing" with a "devious long-range sales plan?"

How about turning a new material? M3, Tru-stone, gator jaw blanks. How will a new product be introduced? How could we find out more about the Tru-Quarter blanks?

There are a lot of people selling stuff here. There are a lot of people who like to buy that stuff here.

I love coming here, sharing here, learning here - being part of this community. I have referred many pen guys and some gals to this place.


Charging money for classifieds is fine. Please don't limit the sharing of information on a product just because it is for sale. The creator/modifier is the most knowledgeable person to ask - the very person who cannot provide public answers.

 

[BigShed]

Thank you Dawn, I had forgotten about that option in vBulletin.

Will now switch off some forums of little or no interest to me.

Thanks again.

Fred, Go to the top of your screen. User CP. Then Edit Options/Miscellaneous Options. Hi light the forums that you do not want to appear in new posts. Save.

That should do it.

 

[BigShed]

Ed, do your figures also include the Completed Listings?

If they don't, there are close to 70,000 posts in them for the 2 forums.

Well I just clicked new posts...and on my first page there were 26 posts - 1 individual classified no business classifieds and probably 12 or 14 SYOP.
Less then 4% related to selling.

That seems to represent the desires of a lot of members pretty well.

Well Smitty--as you know, these numbers will vary (ok, swing wildly) based on the time you look. So, let's be fair and look at the "universe".

There have been 965,877 posts on IAP according to the first page entries.

Looking at the "forums", you will see the Individual Classifieds and the Business Classifieds have had 48,929 and 27165 posts, respectively.

Thus, the total is 76094 posts are ADS.
Slightly LESS than EIGHT PERCENT OF THE ENTRIES!!!

This new program will, likely reduce that number farther. But, as someone said, no point in debating when the answer is a "no-brainer"!

 

[Smitty37]

completed

Ed, do your figures also include the Completed Listings?

If they don't, there are close to 70,000 posts in them for the 2 forums.

Well I just clicked new posts...and on my first page there were 26 posts - 1 individual classified no business classifieds and probably 12 or 14 SYOP.
Less then 4% related to selling.

That seems to represent the desires of a lot of members pretty well.

Well Smitty--as you know, these numbers will vary (ok, swing wildly) based on the time you look. So, let's be fair and look at the "universe".

There have been 965,877 posts on IAP according to the first page entries.

Looking at the "forums", you will see the Individual Classifieds and the Business Classifieds have had 48,929 and 27165 posts, respectively.

Thus, the total is 76094 posts are ADS.
Slightly LESS than EIGHT PERCENT OF THE ENTRIES!!!

This new program will, likely reduce that number farther. But, as someone said, no point in debating when the answer is a "no-brainer"!

I would think that since any completed post first appeared elsewhere they would have been included in the totals for the forums.

 

[ed4copies]

Ed, do your figures also include the Completed Listings?

If they don't, there are close to 70,000 posts in them for the 2 forums.

Well I just clicked new posts...and on my first page there were 26 posts - 1 individual classified no business classifieds and probably 12 or 14 SYOP.
Less then 4% related to selling.

That seems to represent the desires of a lot of members pretty well.

Well Smitty--as you know, these numbers will vary (ok, swing wildly) based on the time you look. So, let's be fair and look at the "universe".

There have been 965,877 posts on IAP according to the first page entries.

Looking at the "forums", you will see the Individual Classifieds and the Business Classifieds have had 48,929 and 27165 posts, respectively.

Thus, the total is 76094 posts are ADS.
Slightly LESS than EIGHT PERCENT OF THE ENTRIES!!!

This new program will, likely reduce that number farther. But, as someone said, no point in debating when the answer is a "no-brainer"!

I am NOT certain---but the sub-forum totals (closed) are about 4000 short of the forum total, which would imply 4000 are open----seems reasonable---but maybe tomorrow someone who KNOWS will answer this authoritatively.

 

[alphageek]

I am NOT certain---but the sub-forum totals (closed) are about 4000 short of the forum total, which would imply 4000 are open----seems reasonable---but maybe tomorrow someone who KNOWS will answer this authoritatively.

Or maybe not.... I'm pretty sure this thread has melted Jeffs brain and it refuses to let him even realize this thread exists any more :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[robutacion]

You might also consider that, in light of the rules changing, smaller vendors would be smart to place ads from now until Oct 1 to reduce their inventories.

Thus, ad traffic will likely be higher for the next 18 days.

Ain't sure about that Ed, and I may be wrong to, that wouldn't be the first time nor will be the last but, I have been very reluctant in put anything for sale on IAP for the last few months, since I knew that Jeff and others were working on changing the Classifieds structure.

No one can blame "those" that found an open door to free advertised and made the most out of it as fast as they could as themselves knew that, whatever was coming as a change on the Classifieds, that open door and free range selling, was going to be over, one doesn't need to be a rock scientist to know that so, no one is to blame really in all fairness, everyone wants to make a buck, some just put a little more effort to do so...!

There are many different vendors and many difference REASONS why people sell. Despite the fact that, WE tend to forget about our own times of extreme financial difficulties and the stressful and panic mode that comes with it, one should not dismiss that desperation pushes people to do things they normally wouldn't do, such as push what they need to sell up ones throats.
I've been in that situation, I know how it feels and I've paid a very high price, as a result...!

Anyway, its easy to assume and judge others behavior, when in fact, the truth behind it is or can be, very far from what looks like...!

Coming back to your observation Ed, the time that is left before the new rules come into place, is creating different reactions to different people/vendors, and while some are still too confused to post anything at the moment, some are skeptical and wait until they sure what they want to do, while some may feel that they are running out of time on the free run and will try to "shove" stuff, up our throats, non-stop...! I may have used a "little" exaggeration here but, we sure will find out who those people are, huh...!
UNLESS, they have realized that, it would become too obvious so they prefer to stay put. Will see...!

My heart goes to those that are, in a desperate situation...!:frown:

I know that, I have been trying not to put anything on the classifieds for some time, even tough I have half a dozen new adds ready for some time. I felt uncomfortable to be part of something that didn't feel right, my attempt to rectify that by donating a percentage on every sale, did settle me a little but the whole structure didn't feel right so, I simple restrain myself to be part of the mess and become one more element of criticism.

I will sell again but only, under the new rules and after I decide which section will be more appropriate to me, and to those that purchase from me. I do need any sale I make and IAP sales are very helpful to me, I have great satisfaction in seeing my woods used and admired by everyone around the world and I will do whatever I can to continue to make those woods available to IAP members, even tough, 95% of them know that they can get all my woods on my eBay store, anytime...!

I also acknowledge that, what I do and the way I do it, is only possible because I am NOT a business nor I make a living out of my sales, (thanks goodness for that, I would have died of starvation, a long time ago...!), I have made this very clear, quite often so, I understand that, others may have to "travel on a different road...!", and that is fine by me...!

I do also use the services of the IAP vendors quite often, I spend many hundreds of dollars every year on items/products offered here, primarily because they offer great prices and secondly because I help those who help me, directly or indirectly...!
I'm concerned that some of those vendors, some as small as me, may stop selling on IAP, that wouldn't be not only a loss to others but also the fact that, what some of them offer, is something that can't be found easily or even anywhere or for the prices those items are offered at so, loosing them will be a considerable loss for everyone else here at IAP...!

I'm positive about the new Classified changes and I hope that we don't loose what made this place what it is today...!

Cheers
George

 

[jaeger]

This is my chance to thank Jeff for this Great Website!
I also would like to thank the moderators for all the time and help they give.

My opinion is that a lot of the vendors are very helpful and informative.
On the other hand, there has been to much advertising mixed in with useful topics. And there are a lot of cheerleaders that are just kissing up.
This is the biggest part that has been sickening!
I whole heartedly applaud Jeff in curbing the Cheerleader squad and over advertising. It's has gotten to be like a stupid commercial in almost every post and thread.

I have been trying to read every post in this thread and the rules thread. I have not sold anything on this forum although I have bought quite a bit.
The one thing I don't know if I am reading correct but it sounds like in the classifieds a buyer will not know if an item is sold until the seller has a moderator remove the post. If this is the case, I will not bother looking at this section at all. It will be a waste of my time. The way it is now, I know that an item is sold through claiming, which to me is point of sale. I don't want to wait a day or two to find out if the item was actually still listed. Most decent items are sold well within the first day. I will not even look if I don't know for this long. I may be reading this wrong, but if so it is only my opinion. It just seems like the sellers are being forced into the Premium Classifieds at a higher cost that is again being passed on to the buyer.
Again, I may have this wrong and this is my only post on this thread.

Thanks again Jeff! Overall, I think these are some Great changes!!!

 

[aussieturner]

hey jeff
i see everyones jumping up and down over $5 or $10 bucks im sure they can and are going to have to raise their prices to cover costs

if they dont want pay for selling im sure that the pile of blanks will pile up and then hopefully they can build a bridge from them AND GET OVER IT

as normally a buyer it would be great to see a "X " where items are sold

but with all the jumping up and down and crying poor theres one thing i haven't been able to find the answer even after reading the new rules

where do i put a " wanted to buy a specific timber " add and want to know if its free ??? i know theres been heaps of questions about selling but nothing regarding this issue

 

[jeff]

Have to agree with you John, this forum has become very heavy on the selling side.

As an example, when I clicked on New Posts this morning, a total of 55 posts came up, of which 18 were either Individual Classifieds or Business Classifieds, ie 1/3 of the New Posts were about selling pen stuff of one form or another.

I haven't even tried to determine how many of the other posts were in your "I got this xxxx from......" or "Who sells the best kits......" category.

I don't know whether charging for advertising will change this ratio, but I guess we are about to find out.

Some of that might be more apparent than real....I frequently need to update classifieds and due to the current system, I often have to make a post rather than edit. That is an extra post not made because there is more selling but because I can only edit for 48 hours.

Where I used to be able to edit anytime without bumpint the ad, now If I go in every 48 hours to put in an update the moderators rightly get upset because of the rule about "bumping". So vendors are sort of between a rock and a hard place in some ways that make it appear like there is more selling going on then there really is.

We are very likely going to change the edit time limit in DOC only to 2 weeks to coincide with the maximum duration of an ad.

 

[jeff]

....

The one thing I don't know if I am reading correct but it sounds like in the classifieds a buyer will not know if an item is sold until the seller has a moderator remove the post. If this is the case, I will not bother looking at this section at all. It will be a waste of my time. The way it is now, I know that an item is sold through claiming, which to me is point of sale. I don't want to wait a day or two to find out if the item was actually still listed. Most decent items are sold well within the first day. I will not even look if I don't know for this long. I may be reading this wrong, but if so it is only my opinion. It just seems like the sellers are being forced into the Premium Classifieds at a higher cost that is again being passed on to the buyer.
Again, I may have this wrong and this is my only post on this thread.

Thanks again Jeff! Overall, I think these are some Great changes!!!

Premium classifieds is the place where claiming posts are allowed. Photos "X"ing will probably be allowed in both forums. Given the often large number of blanks sold in a single post, $10 should not be much of a burden. I have seen threads where hundreds of blanks are listed at $8-$12. $10 to sell $1000 worth of blanks doesn't seem too bad.

 

[rherrell]

I like being able to buy things through the classified sections.
I like finding out where someone got their components/blanks/doodads/freebies(or freebees (sic)) etc.
I like sharing where I got my stuff.
I like to praise a vendor for a good experience.
I like being able to get answers to questions from the seller in the thread.
I like have full information when making a special tool purchase.

A lot of the things I purchase are the results of a long thread with lots of feedback and answered questions - especially tools that are new to me.

If we can't get answers from vendors in their threads, doesn't that deprive the community of potentially valuable information?



Examples:
Carbide tools
Custom tool rests
Turning-between-centers - bushings, special centers...
Bottle stoppers
Pendants
Sanding mills
Taps and dies

Many of the above mentioned things that are commonly used now are the result of an idea that a vendor had and was able to adapt and modify based on the shared feedback of the community.

Would our potential penmaking benefit from NOT being able to ask Curtis how his vacuum chamber and Cactus Juice(r) works? How about the Pen Wizard - there was even a special forum set up to discuss that product.

How would I have learned how to use a die holder? Could George sell a Custom dual size die holder and still be allowed to have his previous "How to use a die holder video" on the site. Would that be considered "sneaky marketing" with a "devious long-range sales plan?"

How about turning a new material? M3, Tru-stone, gator jaw blanks. How will a new product be introduced? How could we find out more about the Tru-Quarter blanks?

There are a lot of people selling stuff here. There are a lot of people who like to buy that stuff here.

I love coming here, sharing here, learning here - being part of this community. I have referred many pen guys and some gals to this place.


Charging money for classifieds is fine. Please don't limit the sharing of information on a product just because it is for sale. The creator/modifier is the most knowledgeable person to ask - the very person who cannot provide public answers.

AMEN Brother!

 

[bruce119]

I like being able to buy things through the classified sections.
I like finding out where someone got their components/blanks/doodads/freebies(or freebees (sic)) etc.
I like sharing where I got my stuff.
I like to praise a vendor for a good experience.
I like being able to get answers to questions from the seller in the thread.
I like have full information when making a special tool purchase.

A lot of the things I purchase are the results of a long thread with lots of feedback and answered questions - especially tools that are new to me.

If we can't get answers from vendors in their threads, doesn't that deprive the community of potentially valuable information?



Examples:
Carbide tools
Custom tool rests
Turning-between-centers - bushings, special centers...
Bottle stoppers
Pendants
Sanding mills
Taps and dies

Many of the above mentioned things that are commonly used now are the result of an idea that a vendor had and was able to adapt and modify based on the shared feedback of the community.

Would our potential penmaking benefit from NOT being able to ask Curtis how his vacuum chamber and Cactus Juice(r) works? How about the Pen Wizard - there was even a special forum set up to discuss that product.

How would I have learned how to use a die holder? Could George sell a Custom dual size die holder and still be allowed to have his previous "How to use a die holder video" on the site. Would that be considered "sneaky marketing" with a "devious long-range sales plan?"

How about turning a new material? M3, Tru-stone, gator jaw blanks. How will a new product be introduced? How could we find out more about the Tru-Quarter blanks?

There are a lot of people selling stuff here. There are a lot of people who like to buy that stuff here.

I love coming here, sharing here, learning here - being part of this community. I have referred many pen guys and some gals to this place.


Charging money for classifieds is fine. Please don't limit the sharing of information on a product just because it is for sale. The creator/modifier is the most knowledgeable person to ask - the very person who cannot provide public answers.

AMEN Brother!

I don't mind paying a small few $ but the restrictions also not making comments. It seems as though the big guy is the one that benefits and the little guy that's not out to make a buck and help out fellow members is going to be pushed out.

I'm sure it will work out and as it is rite now there are soooo many small listings it gets cluttered. I am sure a lot of those small listings will go away that's good for some (the big boys) and bad for others (the little guys)

I'm off to the mountains soon I will see and learn what is here when I get back.

 

[jeff]

Where does it say that you can't get answers from vendors?

Please quote here the part of the rules you believe prevents a vendor from answering questions.

The only thing the rules say is that someone can't turn discussions or questions into advertisements by posting prices, part numbers, or the like.

I like being able to buy things through the classified sections.
I like finding out where someone got their components/blanks/doodads/freebies(or freebees (sic)) etc.
I like sharing where I got my stuff.
I like to praise a vendor for a good experience.
I like being able to get answers to questions from the seller in the thread.
I like have full information when making a special tool purchase.

A lot of the things I purchase are the results of a long thread with lots of feedback and answered questions - especially tools that are new to me.

If we can't get answers from vendors in their threads, doesn't that deprive the community of potentially valuable information?

Examples:
Carbide tools
Custom tool rests
Turning-between-centers - bushings, special centers...
Bottle stoppers
Pendants
Sanding mills
Taps and dies

Many of the above mentioned things that are commonly used now are the result of an idea that a vendor had and was able to adapt and modify based on the shared feedback of the community.

Would our potential penmaking benefit from NOT being able to ask Curtis how his vacuum chamber and Cactus Juice(r) works? How about the Pen Wizard - there was even a special forum set up to discuss that product.

How would I have learned how to use a die holder? Could George sell a Custom dual size die holder and still be allowed to have his previous "How to use a die holder video" on the site. Would that be considered "sneaky marketing" with a "devious long-range sales plan?"

How about turning a new material? M3, Tru-stone, gator jaw blanks. How will a new product be introduced? How could we find out more about the Tru-Quarter blanks?

There are a lot of people selling stuff here. There are a lot of people who like to buy that stuff here.

I love coming here, sharing here, learning here - being part of this community. I have referred many pen guys and some gals to this place.


Charging money for classifieds is fine. Please don't limit the sharing of information on a product just because it is for sale. The creator/modifier is the most knowledgeable person to ask - the very person who cannot provide public answers.

 

[SCR0LL3R]

Premium classifieds is the place where claiming posts are allowed. Photos "X"ing will probably be allowed in both forums. Given the often large number of blanks sold in a single post, $10 should not be much of a burden. I have seen threads where hundreds of blanks are listed at $8-$12. $10 to sell $1000 worth of blanks doesn't seem too bad.

It sounds like such a small fee when you say it like that, but many these ads get posted, run for longer than 2 weeks and only a fraction of them are sold in the end. You are using a very big vendor with fairly high priced blanks as an example and assuming that they sell most of what they are advertizing.

Another concern of mine is not being able to post where you got your parts from... This I will miss. I think far more often than not it isn't blatant advertizing and the majority are going to pay the price for what a few want changed. In the end I feel the quality of the site will take a hit.

 

[bruce119]

Premium classifieds is the place where claiming posts are allowed. Photos "X"ing will probably be allowed in both forums. Given the often large number of blanks sold in a single post, $10 should not be much of a burden. I have seen threads where hundreds of blanks are listed at $8-$12. $10 to sell $1000 worth of blanks doesn't seem too bad.

It sounds like such a small fee when you say it like that, but many these ads get posted, run for longer than 2 weeks and only a fraction of them are sold in the end. You are using a very big vendor with fairly high priced blanks as an example and assuming that they sell most of what they are advertizing.

Another concern of mine is not being able to post where you got your parts from... This I will miss. I think far more often than not it isn't blatant advertizing and the majority are going to pay the price for what a few want changed. In the end I feel the quality of the site will take a hit.

To me it's kind of like wall-mart moving into a variety plaza. Wall-mart cleans up the plaza and it looks great but all the little mom & pop shops moved away. Dose the community as a whole benefit from this at first most will say yes ..it's and clean and convenient.. but latter on I think they will miss the variety of the little shops. Now the bigger stores love it, it knocked out a lot of distraction & competition.

Just an analogy and my opinion

Like I said before we'll adapt and in a few months this will all be forgotten.

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[jeff]

Premium classifieds is the place where claiming posts are allowed. Photos "X"ing will probably be allowed in both forums. Given the often large number of blanks sold in a single post, $10 should not be much of a burden. I have seen threads where hundreds of blanks are listed at $8-$12. $10 to sell $1000 worth of blanks doesn't seem too bad.

It sounds like such a small fee when you say it like that, but many these ads get posted, run for longer than 2 weeks and only a fraction of them are sold in the end. You are using a very big vendor with fairly high priced blanks as an example and assuming that they sell most of what they are advertizing.

Another concern of mine is not being able to post where you got your parts from... This I will miss. I think far more often than not it isn't blatant advertizing and the majority are going to pay the price for what a few want changed. In the end I feel the quality of the site will take a hit.

Where does it say you can't post where you got your parts from?

PLEASE EVERYONE!! STOP reading things into the rules which ARE NOT THERE!!!!

A large percentage of the upset with the new rules is people interpreting things incorrectly. This is a perfect example.

The ONLY thing we are asking is that vendors don't post prices, part numbers, web links to, and other sales information when they post in SOYP or when someone asks "where can I get X".

VENDORS can post in SOYP and say "made with my cast blanks" or whatever.

ANYONE can post where they got their parts as long as they don't stand to make money if people buy that stuff.

 

[rherrell]

Where does it say that you can't get answers from vendors?

Please quote here the part of the rules you believe prevents a vendor from answering questions.



Rules for Classifieds:

• $5 per ad
• One ad running at a time in this forum
• Ads can run for two weeks
• Five photos allowed
• One followup post per week allowed from seller
• No followup posts by others

Right here Jeff, people can't ask me any questions in my ad, or am I wrong?

 

[glycerine]

Where does it say that you can't get answers from vendors?

Please quote here the part of the rules you believe prevents a vendor from answering questions.



Rules for Classifieds:

• $5 per ad
• One ad running at a time in this forum
• Ads can run for two weeks
• Five photos allowed
• One followup post per week allowed from seller
• No followup posts by others

Right here Jeff, people can't ask me any questions in my ad, or am I wrong?

Technically, that rule has already been implemented. We have all been asked to PM a vendor with questions instead of posting directly in the classified threads. I've already had a few posts deleted because of that :redface:, but I understand why. It keeps the threads clean and keeps them from being bumped everytime someone has a question...

 

[bruce119]

Where does it say that you can't get answers from vendors?

Please quote here the part of the rules you believe prevents a vendor from answering questions.



Rules for Classifieds:

• $5 per ad
• One ad running at a time in this forum
• Ads can run for two weeks
• Five photos allowed
• One followup post per week allowed from seller
• No followup posts by others

Right here Jeff, people can't ask me any questions in my ad, or am I wrong?

Exactly we're not talking the forum we're talking the classifieds. Seems if you post something for sale buyers cant post anything

 

[ed4copies]

As I read it (which is subject to error), the "classified" is very much like a newspaper ad---you print it, they call you or write to you and you solve each issue privately.

The "Premium classified" allows you to make use of some of the benefits of "dialog" allowed in the "forum format".

So, before you post your ad, you need to decide what value the "dialog" has, to you. If the answer is over $5, you should use the premium.

 

[alphageek]

Where does it say that you can't get answers from vendors?

Please quote here the part of the rules you believe prevents a vendor from answering questions.



Rules for Classifieds:

• $5 per ad
• One ad running at a time in this forum
• Ads can run for two weeks
• Five photos allowed
• One followup post per week allowed from seller
• No followup posts by others

Right here Jeff, people can't ask me any questions in my ad, or am I wrong?

Exactly we're not talking the forum we're talking the classifieds. Seems if you post something for sale buyers cant post anything

Thats not true...

From the general rules section:
Buyers and Sellers Must Communicate By PM or eMail: Posts such as "PM Sent" or "PayPal on the way", etc., are not allowed.

"Claiming Posts" Allowed in Some Forums: In the Steals & Deals and Premium Classifieds forums, buyers may still make "claiming posts", such as "I'll take X, Y, & Z" because that does serve the purpose of informing others what items (usually blanks) are gone.

The followup rule is NOT to stop all questions. It is to stop the needless bumping for things that people don't care about. Most of the $5 ads will be types that don't need significant followup.

Dean
Asst mod

 

[babyblues]

To me it's kind of like wall-mart moving into a variety plaza. Wall-mart cleans up the plaza and it looks great but all the little mom & pop shops moved away. Dose the community as a whole benefit from this at first most will say yes ..it's and clean and convenient.. but latter on I think they will miss the variety of the little shops. Now the bigger stores love it, it knocked out a lot of distraction & competition.

Just an analogy and my opinion

Like I said before we'll adapt and in a few months this will all be forgotten.

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Bruce, how is the "little guy" going to get pushed out because of a $5 advertising fee? Really?! You've commented about this more than once, as have several others, so I think it's enough of an issue to address. This is the kind of overreaction that's making this discussion so convoluted. Try to keep things in perspective.

Those who are only getting rid of a few things they aren't going to use can post in the Steals and Deals section for free. And those who have more to sell, whether alot or a little, can use the classifieds for either $5 or $10 per ad. That means the "little guy" needs to adjust their prices or adjust the way they advertise products so that they can make more efficient use of their ad.

 

[babyblues]

The followup rule is NOT to stop all questions. It is to stop the needless bumping for things that people don't care about. Most of the $5 ads will be types that don't need significant followup.

There you have it. Not complicated to understand.


Is it possible to set up a FAQ section where buyers can ask questions where everyone else can see the answer? Each vendor could have their own thread where they list FAQs and answers. Even though the Premium Classifieds will allow people to post in the ad as they have been able to do all along, it might be helpful to have a place to post questions about a particular product that someone sells on IAP. That way potential buyers could get answers to their questions without having to search through the Classifieds to find a specific ad, any question that's already been asked will be in one place, and vendors wouldn't have to answer the same question over and over again in another ad or PMs.

 

[jeff]

You can discuss your products in the open forums whenever a discussion surrounding them us going on.

The classifieds are for selling stuff, not having the long conversations that occur there.

Where does it say that you can't get answers from vendors?

Please quote here the part of the rules you believe prevents a vendor from answering questions.



Rules for Classifieds:

• $5 per ad
• One ad running at a time in this forum
• Ads can run for two weeks
• Five photos allowed
• One followup post per week allowed from seller
• No followup posts by others

Right here Jeff, people can't ask me any questions in my ad, or am I wrong?

Exactly we're not talking the forum we're talking the classifieds. Seems if you post something for sale buyers cant post anything

Thats not true...

From the general rules section:
Buyers and Sellers Must Communicate By PM or eMail: Posts such as "PM Sent" or "PayPal on the way", etc., are not allowed.

"Claiming Posts" Allowed in Some Forums: In the Steals & Deals and Premium Classifieds forums, buyers may still make "claiming posts", such as "I'll take X, Y, & Z" because that does serve the purpose of informing others what items (usually blanks) are gone.

The followup rule is NOT to stop all questions. It is to stop the needless bumping for things that people don't care about. Most of the $5 ads will be types that don't need significant followup.

Dean
Asst mod

 

[jeff]

My dear old dad

My dad had two favorite quotations; "The best laid plans of mice and men often go astray.", and "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." I'm feeling his presence as we try to work through this classifieds overhaul.

Folks, my intentions were good. Everything I do with regard to the IAP is intended to strengthen the organization, ensure it's existence forever, and to make coming here a fun and exciting experience for everyone. I thought I had a good plan. The managers, moderators, and I put hundreds of hours into making changes that it has been clear are needed, and to put a means in place to generate revenue from the people who were profiting from our existence.

So far, I've been pretty surprised that a few dollars for an ad, and cutting down on the clutter and chatter in the classifieds would be such a hot button issue. It makes me sad (to use a word that many of you are attaching to this issue) that we can't look downstream and see a bigger, stronger, healthier IAP resulting from this initiative. It's a bit of a mystery why a few of you would be so venomous in your messages to me just because we're asking that you make slightly more efficient use of the classifieds. (And thanks to the few of you who have been so supportive!)

I have pretty thick skin, and none of this has really gotten to me on a personal level. Until a few moments ago. Someone wrote me to reemphasize his concerns over the new plan and he related something that absolutely floored me. He said that several people have called him and said that they know why we're doing this. Apparently they've figured out my hidden agenda behind the whole thing.

The claim is that because I work for NASA, and NASA is cutting back and closing down programs, that I may be out of a job.

It sort of sickens me to respond to this but I will. I hate to burst some people's bubble, but I'm a career federal civil servant with decades of service. If they shut down the entire agency, I'll be among a small group of people turning the lights off on the way out. The shorter answer: I don't need your money, people.

It disgusts me that people who know nothing about me, my job, my income, or my personal finances, would actually try to make that connection. But now at least I know that there's some sentiment out there that I'm doing this to line my own pockets.

Thanks again to those of you who see the vision and can adapt.

 

[alphageek]

Locking this thread... I'm very unhappy that some have chosen to attack Jeff ... If you read this... I think Jeffs statement should give people something to think about for a bit.

He was VERY nice to ask for feedback and has listened to it. The fact that Jeff had to make the above post sickens me a little.. Please do not create new threads about the classified rules at this point. I'm sure that more will be coming, but there is very little discussion that hasn't already been asked.

 

[jeff]

I apologize for the rant. My human side sneaks out around my pointy ears sometimes. Those of you who have been with us for almost 8 years know I'm not a hothead!

Dean's closing of the thread was just his instinct to protect the quarterback. He was not trying to squash conversation. I welcome discussion and criticism. It usually leads to a better outcome.

We'll be having additional discussions in a fresh thread as soon as we digest all the issues raised here. Thanks for sticking with us through a somewhat confusing and trying time. We're heading for a better future, and a little discomfort today will be worth it.

I'm going to stick this thread so we don't lose track of it.