Your level of perfection

[rlharding]

What is it? I make some pretty nice pens but I have never made one that I think is perfect. I have also sold a lot of pens that I don't think are perfect.

I have never sold a pen with an obvious flaw, but I have sold pens that are a tad over/under turned. I can feel it but I doubt most people could because I am scrutinizing the pen.

I have also sold pens where the grain did not line up 100%. I have never had a complaint and never had a pen sent back so I feel confident in what I am selling.

When I do the high end pens I hope i don't let anything get past my scrutinizing eye and have just bought a magnifying lamp to get ready.

Curious as to what other people do or don't let get by.

 

[1080Wayne]

Ruth I use a 3 diopter lens to check for tool marks and sanding scratches after each grit (320-600 or 1000) before finishing , and when sanding the CA finish(400-1500). Works best with the light OFF , and another light source coming in at a low angle . Wayne

 

[Kalai]

Hi Ruth, I also look very good to make sure I get out any tool marks and sanding marks, i also make sure my repairs if any are done well like filling worm holes and stuff like that then the finish also needs to be without flaws, I do make 2 different levels of product one is top quality and the other is museum quality, museum quality is the best wood, work and finish, aloha.

Chris
Kalai

 

[rlharding]

I do get all the tool/sanding scratches out, it's more the 'perfect fit' or the not quite lined up grain I am more interested in knowing about.

Chris, did you come up with your own standards for the two products? How would I know if a pen is museum or top quality? What do you see as the differences. I guess the other question for people is how many pens does it take to get the perfect pen. I don't mean how many you have made and now think your pens are perfect, rather, if you have an order for a majestic in DIW, do you just have to make 1, or do you sometimes make two to get the perfection?

 

[Ligget]

Ruth I sometimes have the same blanks drilled and tubed ready to use should a unforseen problem occur!

If I am not happy with the originals after turning them then I`ll start on the back-ups.

 

[R2]

No problem being fussy. Just makes us better at, and more satisfied with, what we do.

 

[leehljp]

Ruth,

There were three steps that helped me make the transition from "fair and good" to "Sell this one for $100 to $150 or more."

First was changing to use calipers without fail. No more depending on bushings. Calipers for every fit. It didn't take me long to write down measurements and turn/sand/finish to tolerances. Early on, this seemed like overkill as I read of others doing this without fail. Then I realized how rewarding it was to have consistently sized turns.

Second was, patience. After learning to use the calipers, I applied that diligence to other aspects of making the pen. I worked on sanding and CA finishing. After nearly 1 1/2 years of inconsistence in finishes, I made it my goal for about 3 to 4 months to learn how to perfect CA finishes and fix mess ups. My goal was not to make pens, but to master CA finishes. I made some good pens in the process but the goal was mastering CA finishes. This involved the patience to experiment and work until it became second nature.

Third, the mandrel-less system helped me improve on the out of round and also the chipped CA finish that happened with oily woods and bushing separation.

Below are two picts of the same duck call. I deliberately over applied CA and dried it with a hair dryer, creating the frosted look. Below that is the "almost" finished DC without ANY white spots. How did I do that? Practice, practice, practice. I learned how to artificially create white spots and how to get rid of it. Yes, it is OVERKILL, but When it happens, I don't have to start worrying or wait for a dozen different suggestions here to figure out what to do. The worst thing is that I may have to take it off and start over. I accept that too.

But the point is 1. measure, 2. practice & patience - make different steps of "pen making" - a goal that you know inside and out, and 3. use methods and steps that help you out of tough spots. When you do this, all the different aspects of making the near perfect pen fall into place.

Lastly, keep checking here for new ideas and things that can enhance what you are already doing right. WAYNE above gave a GREAT idea for checking the finish. I am going to add a magnifying glass to my small workshop!

The pictures of Problem and Fixed:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Unfortunately, 'stuff' happens. I had an order last year for seven heritage pens. A customer gave me wood from the old family homestead and wanted seven pens from it. I was able to salvage only enough for the seven. They were European style. Somewhere along the line, I somehow got distracted while turning two of them and made the upper barrel undersized, bad fit at the center band. I never did figure out how it happened. Normally, those would be trash and I would start over with new wood. But there was no extra wood and I delivered the best I could with a note of apology and generous discount on those two pens. I still feel badly about not delivering my best work.

 

[Jim in Oakville]

Hi Ruth,

I am a lot like you, I sell 200+ pens a year.

I do a few things, my first is to use a strong bac light and a magnifier to make sure all my sanding marks are gone, that is a must. I also make sure I am not over or under turned, that I am flush to the hardware as well. I also work on design, so I like to allow the choice of pen material and hardware to not feel out of place in the final shape I create. I also work very hard to select hardware and pen blanks that work together, they need to look right to be right!

Alignment of gain is a basic an positioning the clip and texture help.

My Gallery owner tells me that the visual appeal of anything is what sells the product, so I focus on that, she tells me seldom do they care what an item is made of unless.... it is so unique that it creates an interest.


Master your turning and finishing and everything else falls into place.

 

[alamocdc]

I'm a perfectionist, but don't take that to mean all, or any, of my pens are perfect. While I've turned many that most would be hard pressed to find a flaw, we're our own worst critics and we know where and when we fell short on a project. My guage is LOML. If she doesn't spot a flaw, the pen will sell. If she picks up something I've missed (yes, it happens... rarely, but...) I take it apart and fix it, or I start over. I had one pen take much longer than I got paid for, but I only had the one blank. The grain was wicked and just as I was making my final pass with the skew it caught. And of course it was near the bushing. By the time I got it smoothed out, it was undersized. Not by much, but I wasn't happy. The customer would most likely not have noticed, but I knew it. So I had to build up the CA finish on one end to adjust. I suppose one could always apply the Navajo method... they will purposefully weave a mistake into a rug to show man's imperfection.

 

[Mudder]

Originally posted by rlharding

I have never made one that I think is perfect.

Neither have I, and if I ever do I'm going to quit because there is no room to improve.

I don't have a real yardstick except a "gut feeling".
We are often our own worst critic and what is unacceptable to us might not even be noticed by the average person.


About the only thing I can say is that differs from you is that I have let pens go that were a tad overturned because it is not that noticeable in the hand but I never let an under turned pen go because people do pick that up rather quickly. You can ease the edge a bit on an overturned pen but you cannot do the reverse on an under turned pen.

 

[rherrell]

Originally posted by 1080Wayne

Ruth I use a 3 diopter lens to check for tool marks and sanding scratches after each grit (320-600 or 1000) before finishing , and when sanding the CA finish(400-1500). Works best with the light OFF , and another light source coming in at a low angle . Wayne

I'm not THAT perfect!

 

[Dario]

First, we all have different STANDARDS.

I see a lot of pens shown here proudly by the turner (and rightfully too) show some flaw that for me are personally unacceptable. I am not a perfectionist but do set my standards high. I am sure that someone can see flaws on my work and might deem them unacceptable also. Again, it all depends on our own standard which actually changes, increases with experience and as time goes by (I hope)

That said, I now won't sell a pen that doesn't meet my standards (but I sell very little). It wasn't always been like that mind you so I've sold pens that are so-so in quality before but at the time, I thought they are great!!! [:I]

 

[Daniel]

Ruth, I also have never made a "Perfect Pen" One little side line I have learned is that every pen has a story. There are details in making any pen. this problem that discovery etc. the struggle with the finish, whatever. I learned to use these stories in selling the pen. It creates interest in the buyer. having said that I also notice lately that my pens have a lot less story to them than they used to. I credit this mostly to practice. I no longer find many pens turned to far off the mark as far as fit. finish is more of a time consumer than a challenge and they all seem to come out gleaming. I have not sen white spots in my CA for so long I nearly forgot it will do that. scratches have seemed to vanish. I cannot really identify just why all of this has happened, but I do know a few. 1. my turning ability has greatly improved period. I have much more control and confidence at the lathe. 2. I have made several equipment changes a. I hold my mandrel with a chuck not the morse taper b. got a top notch sharpening system c. got at least a couple of high quality and high priced turning tools but I do not see this as making all that much difference. d. I changed the way I approach turning the final barrel to size, the way I do it works right every time for me but I think this is something every turner has to discover for themselves. As for exact grain match, I do not expect it so I don't consider it a flaw. wood has got to be removed so the grain will not match. you then separate the pieces by the distance of the center band again causing it to be out of alignment. third the barrel of the pen varies in diameter again causing a miss alignment of grain. matching grain is nice when it does happen but is not on my list of qualities a really fine pen has to have. that it is overall striking is what I shoot for.

 

[alphageek]

Dario set it right ... We all have our own standards... and they change. If they don't change, you aren't growing.

My personal standards are set by a combination of two things - my own take on my art, and comparing it to others art. There is some pen makers out there (and by out there I mean not on IAP) who make pens, that I would be horrified to sell. On the other hand, there are some pen turners that I admire. When I look at my pens, I ask myself am I growing toward making pens that are their quality?

My last pens are definately way better than my first. Some are alot closer to "perfect" in my eyes, and some are a bit further away.. Thats why I am so glad for this site. Not only is it a place to learn and share, it is a great place to continually compare my current pens to the range of skilled people who post here. I think I try to look at every SOYP post - that way I'm continually challenged to keep my personal standard moving UP.

 

[rlharding]

Thanks for all of the interesting comments. I just bought a lamp with a magnifier so I will see ow that goes before I consider a diopter. Another thing I have never done i to spend real time just practising - that was a good reminder and I think is something I will do for the next few weeks. I have some time right now so it's perfect.

I have just had a thought wouldn't it be great if we had a section for how to fix common mistakes/problems?

Thanks!!

 

[1080Wayne]

Ruth The 5 inch diameter round lens lit by a circular fluorescent are usually 3 diopter . My bottom line is to always save my mistakes . Nine out of ten of them get corrected once I have learned how - sometimes it takes months for the light to dawn . I screwed up the bushing order on the first cigar I tried on a blank from an old bluestone treated aspen poplar fencepost that meant a lot to me personally as a remembrance of my grandfather . It still sits on my desk , but I do know how to fix it by casting over it - and I now have the equipment to do it . An expensive fix yes , but I hope not to make that mistake again . Wayne

 

[Penmonkey]

Everything on my jeep and my pens must be 100% perfect. Everything else is ok as is.

 

[wdcav1952]

Travis, this is not meant as a poke at you since I know you were having fun with your post.

Ruth, I have read this entire thread, and most posters seem to share the way I feel. When I see posts that are self-aggrandizing about the absolute quality of the presented pen, I simply move on to the next thread. Likewise, when someone explains how to never have a glue failure, never ruin a blank, effortlessly get the perfect finish every time, or otherwise claim perfection, I move my posterior away from the smoke blowing.

In my opinion, the true craftsman/artist is never completely satisfied with their work. As my level of expertise increases, my level of satisfaction tends to decrease. Obviously this can be taken to extreme and ridiculous extents, but the point is that perfection cannot be achieved, but rather only approached.

Many years ago, I made gold and silver jewelry from seashells and sharks teeth. I tended to tell each buyer the mistakes on the piece they were buying. Usually these were flaws they did not see or care about. The craftsman is, and always should be, his own worst critic. Like the Ides of March, beware those who tell you that they have something perfected, be it a CA finish or anything else.

Be comfortable with your work, just always strive to improve.

 

[DCBluesman]

Perfect is the enemy of good. Striving for improvement and even excellence is admirable while striving for perfection is foolhardy.

“Man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or what’s a heaven for?†~~ Robert Browning

 

[Aderhammer]

I'll get a pen done that to anyone else looks damn nice, i'll show my mom and dad (dad is a woodworker) but i'll point out flaws in it and not be happy but they said they don't even notice the flaws, but hey i just would hate for someone to come back to me and point out a flaw in my craftsmanship.

 

[stevers]

I haven't done a "perfect" piece yet. I did get real close on a double cast Euc worthless wood. It is about 98%, by my eye. Others have been pretty close. And some not even close. Of course they wont leave my possession. And like others have said, I may be the only one that notices some of the problems.

 

[Penmonkey]

Cav I agree with what you are getting at. Nothing earthy can ever be truly perfect, but you must strive to make each attempt better or you will never get any better at what you are doing. The best pen I've made to date is still not 100% perfect but I am the only person that would ever know that until I tell someone.

 

[wdcav1952]

OK, let's take this to the next level.

Please post on this thread and tell everyone about the perfection you have achieved. Who out there has perfected a finish technique or turned a perfect pen?

Inquiring minds want to know.....

 

[leehljp]

I've made some perfect pens and like a dummy, gave them away. A few days later, I found my glasses!

Striving, always striving! Aim high and never give up!

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

To answer this we will first need to agree on the definiton of the word perfect:

1. conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type: a perfect sphere; a perfect gentleman.
2. excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement: There is no perfect legal code. The proportions of this temple are almost perfect.
3. exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose: a perfect actor to play Mr. Micawber; a perfect saw for cutting out keyholes.
4. entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings: a perfect apple; the perfect crime.
5. accurate, exact, or correct in every detail: a perfect copy.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perfect