Why vendors drop names

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Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
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Have you wondered why some vendors push the name of their supplier very hard and others don't? Well it isn't entirely because they think their supplier is the best.

It also depends somewhat on the relationship they have with the supplier. In some cases they are a reseller and sell everything as branded by their supplier. In other cases their supplier is an OEM and they sell under their own brand name.

In some cases there is one of the above relationships with one supplier and the other with another supplier - actually that is my case at the moment.
 
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I guess when a vendor name drops it is becasue they really stand behind thier product and most likely have a passion for what they are selling. Someone that hides that info may be in it for a quick buck and may not be around long or is still new to the business and has not found that name to stand behind yet. I wouldnt count it against them unless I asked and they did not know or knew nothing about the maker of the product. But I have not been doing thi long and the bulk of my pens are WC & PSI and I have no idea where they get there stuff.
 
Apples and oranges

maxwell_smart007 said:
Yes, I'm sure Ford salesmen push Fords because they're fans of Ford...and the dealer chose to become a Ford dealer because he likes their trucks...

not sure what you're getting at...
Click to expand...

When Ford sells a car built by someone else they are still selling a Ford brand. Ford is a manufacturer and all of their dealers are resellers - they sell Fords because they have a Ford franchise.

That's not quite the same thing, I don't know of any pen kit manufacturer who is offering franchises --- think Sears and Kenmore. Kenmore is Sears name - you have no idea who the maker is. You might or might not be able to find out by asking the Sears Retailer (or if there is a recall) but Sears won't advertise it.

I use mostly 2 manufacturers - one is OEM making stuff to my spec for my name brand. The other is not (although if I ordered enough of their stuff and wanted the to, they would be). In one case I want my name associated with the product not the manufacturer's because next year it might be a different manufacturer. In the other case I want the manufacturers name associated because I'm a reseller and I want to call them the "best" regardless of what I really think..
 
Smitty37 said:
maxwell_smart007 said:
Yes, I'm sure Ford salesmen push Fords because they're fans of Ford...and the dealer chose to become a Ford dealer because he likes their trucks...

not sure what you're getting at...
Click to expand...

When Ford sells a car built by someone else they are still selling a Ford brand. Ford is a manufacturer and all of their dealers are resellers - they sell Fords because they have a Ford franchise.

That's not quite the same thing, I don't know of any pen kit manufacturer who is offering franchises --- think Sears and Kenmore. Kenmore is Sears name - you have no idea who the maker is. You might or might not be able to find out by asking the Sears Retailer (or if there is a recall) but Sears won't advertise it.

I use mostly 2 manufacturers - one is OEM making stuff to my spec for my name brand. The other is not (although if I ordered enough of their stuff and wanted the to, they would be). In one case I want my name associated with the product not the manufacturer's because next year it might be a different manufacturer. In the other case I want the manufacturers name associated because I'm a reseller and I want to call them the "best" regardless of what I really think..
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So . . . what's your point?? Are you saying that you sell products that you feel are inferior but you call them the "best" just so we'll buy them?
 
Hmmmm

Justturnin said:
I guess when a vendor name drops it is becasue they really stand behind thier product and most likely have a passion for what they are selling. Someone that hides that info may be in it for a quick buck and may not be around long or is still new to the business and has not found that name to stand behind yet. I wouldnt count it against them unless I asked and they did not know or knew nothing about the maker of the product. But I have not been doing thi long and the bulk of my pens are WC & PSI and I have no idea where they get there stuff.
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How about because they want to sell the product? They might or might not stand behind what they sell...just like any other seller. Vendors with integrity(that includes almost all of my competitors and myself) will stand behind what they sell, regardless of who made it.
 
It's a well known phrase in marketing: "Establish your brand".

So, there are "age-old" brands: Dayacom (sold by CSUSA, who was the brand before we knew about Dayacom), PSI, Berea and, for those who are old enough in this, WCO (Woodcrafters of Oklahoma).

Now, we (penmakers) are beginning to think we know who makes the kits, so we are looking around the internet and finding Rizheng and Dayacom direct.

In fact we don't KNOW that any of them manufacture. But, we know they can find a way to get kits made.

So, you may choose to tell your customers who is your source for your kits, or not. If the source's name has some gravitas (a "brand"), it may make sense to use that name. Of course, if it is Berea, you also advertise for THEM every time you use their name. That same situation applies now to Dayacom, except they require a retail order of 30 or more kits.

So, yes there is a downside to using the "brand" name. I do it, because I feel I am a "partner" with Berea, they are better positioned for the 100 kit orders, I am a better source for smaller orders.

So, since the topic is why a VENDOR uses a name, the reason I would use the Berea name is it has a reputation for making kits that work for more than 20 years. You know what you are buying.

(This is equally true of CSUSA, PSI and, to some extent, Dayacom---I would not consider them equal to each other in quality, but they have an equal track record you could research and decide what you should expect from them. In short they HAVE "built a brand"--for better or for not as good)
 
Two points

DocStram said:
Smitty37 said:
maxwell_smart007 said:
Yes, I'm sure Ford salesmen push Fords because they're fans of Ford...and the dealer chose to become a Ford dealer because he likes their trucks...

not sure what you're getting at...
Click to expand...

When Ford sells a car built by someone else they are still selling a Ford brand. Ford is a manufacturer and all of their dealers are resellers - they sell Fords because they have a Ford franchise.

That's not quite the same thing, I don't know of any pen kit manufacturer who is offering franchises --- think Sears and Kenmore. Kenmore is Sears name - you have no idea who the maker is. You might or might not be able to find out by asking the Sears Retailer (or if there is a recall) but Sears won't advertise it.

I use mostly 2 manufacturers - one is OEM making stuff to my spec for my name brand. The other is not (although if I ordered enough of their stuff and wanted the to, they would be). In one case I want my name associated with the product not the manufacturer's because next year it might be a different manufacturer. In the other case I want the manufacturers name associated because I'm a reseller and I want to call them the "best" regardless of what I really think..
Click to expand...


So . . . what's your point?? Are you saying that you sell products that you feel are inferior but you call them the "best" just so we'll buy them?
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Point one. No I didn't say that ---- you did.
Point two. I do not claim my products are the "best". I claim they represent good value for the money.

One manufacturer who's products I sell has a long standing and highly regarded reputation for producing outstanding (and pretty high priced) products. When I mention those products I use his name. I know his products are high quality but there can always be an argument as to whether or not they are "best".
 
I think we agreed....

ed4copies said:
It's a well known phrase in marketing: "Establish your brand".

So, there are "age-old" brands: Dayacom (sold by CSUSA, who was the brand before we knew about Dayacom), PSI, Berea and, for those who are old enough in this, WCO (Woodcrafters of Oklahoma).

Now, we (penmakers) are beginning to think we know who makes the kits, so we are looking around the internet and finding Rizheng and Dayacom direct.

In fact we don't KNOW that any of them manufacture. But, we know they can find a way to get kits made.

So, you may choose to tell your customers who is your source for your kits, or not. If the source's name has some gravitas (a "brand"), it may make sense to use that name. Of course, if it is Berea, you also advertise for THEM every time you use their name. That same situation applies now to Dayacom, except they require a retail order of 30 or more kits.

So, yes there is a downside to using the "brand" name. I do it, because I feel I am a "partner" with Berea, they are better positioned for the 100 kit orders, I am a better source for smaller orders.

So, since the topic is why a VENDOR uses a name, the reason I would use the Berea name is it has a reputation for making kits that work for more than 20 years. You know what you are buying.

(This is equally true of CSUSA, PSI and, to some extent, Dayacom---I would not consider them equal to each other in quality, but they have an equal track record you could research and decide what you should expect from them. In short they HAVE "built a brand"--for better or for not as good)
Click to expand...

I'm not 100% sure but I think we agreed...

When I say Emperor or Jr Emperor other than casually it is Dayacom Emperor or Dayacom Jr Emperor - I'll let others worry about how they stack up to the others. Because of their mode of doing business I don't especially mind advertising for them for the same reason you don't mind advertising for Berea. If some one wants 30 or more of the same kit I can't meet their price anyway.

They do sell unbranded kits that I could sell under my brand but the MOQ is too high for me to be anxious to do so....but I might.

On the other hand I get kits from Rizheng also - some of them they won't sell to you, most of them they will. Since those kits are sold under the my brand name I see no good reason to advertise for them.
 
Actually, Smitty, we know Dayacom has a history of high quality products. We don't really know whether they make the pieces (which is true of ALL the brands at this point) and we don't know for certain that the same MAKERS will be used from one shipment to the next.

So, "branding" is, presently a gray area in pen kit purchasing.
 
BigShed said:
maxwell_smart007 said:
Yes, I'm sure Ford salesmen push Fords because they're fans of Ford...and the dealer chose to become a Ford dealer because he likes their trucks...

not sure what you're getting at...
Click to expand...

Neither am I, but then it does keep your name and website link in front of people don't it?:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Just one more way some here use this forum to get some subliminal advertising in. It will never stop unless EVERONE agrees and plays by the rules.
 
BigShed said:
maxwell_smart007 said:
Yes, I'm sure Ford salesmen push Fords because they're fans of Ford...and the dealer chose to become a Ford dealer because he likes their trucks...

not sure what you're getting at...
Click to expand...

Neither am I, but then it does keep your name and website link in front of people don't it?:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Ditto that!

One would think they could carry on this little debate via PM BUT........ as mentioned above, where would be the exposure in that!

Sorta reminds me of some of the VW commercials on TV, I haven't a clue what they are trying to say, just a car driving around through the country, but their logo is prominantly displayed all throughout the commercial, maybe that IS the point, I dunno! :eek:
 
Texatdurango said:
BigShed said:
maxwell_smart007 said:
Yes, I'm sure Ford salesmen push Fords because they're fans of Ford...and the dealer chose to become a Ford dealer because he likes their trucks...

not sure what you're getting at...
Click to expand...

Neither am I, but then it does keep your name and website link in front of people don't it?:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Ditto that!

One would think they could carry on this little debate via PM BUT........ as mentioned above, where would be the exposure in that!

Sorta reminds me of some of the VW commercials on TV, I haven't a clue what they are trying to say, just a car driving around through the country, but their logo is prominantly displayed all throughout the commercial, maybe that IS the point, I dunno! :eek:
Click to expand...


Of course it was a mod that wasn't sure what they were getting at..:eek::rolleyes::biggrin:
 
OKLAHOMAN said:
Texatdurango said:
BigShed said:
maxwell_smart007 said:
Yes, I'm sure Ford salesmen push Fords because they're fans of Ford...and the dealer chose to become a Ford dealer because he likes their trucks...

not sure what you're getting at...
Click to expand...

Neither am I, but then it does keep your name and website link in front of people don't it?:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Ditto that!

One would think they could carry on this little debate via PM BUT........ as mentioned above, where would be the exposure in that!

Sorta reminds me of some of the VW commercials on TV, I haven't a clue what they are trying to say, just a car driving around through the country, but their logo is prominantly displayed all throughout the commercial, maybe that IS the point, I dunno! :eek:
Click to expand...


Of course it was a mod that wasn't sure what they were getting at..:eek::rolleyes::biggrin:
Click to expand...


Sometimes, I'll read a thread like this one, and wonder why it even got started. Then I'll take a closer look and realize that if it smells like self-promoting one's business . . . . and quacks like self-promoting one's business . . . then it must be a duck.
 
Perhaps not everyone is as infinitely well informed as you all and MAY gain something in the discussion of sources.

You CAN opt to leave the thread closed--no one forces you to read!!
 
True but

That is true of any manufacturer...I worked for IBM and we subcontracted all the time often, to assure meeting schedules or other good reasons there were several different job shoppers who might make the same part but you can believe that which ever it was made by it was made to the same specs and quality standards. Manufacturers do that all the time. Dayacom is probably no different. I sometimes wonder why we even give it a thought. Given that the "store brand" concept has been with us for so long in most consumer merchandise you'd think we'd be used to it.
 
I have to ask, was there something that prompted this thread? I'm not clear what the motivation was for starting this.
 
Nah

BigShed said:
maxwell_smart007 said:
Yes, I'm sure Ford salesmen push Fords because they're fans of Ford...and the dealer chose to become a Ford dealer because he likes their trucks...

not sure what you're getting at...
Click to expand...

Neither am I, but then it does keep your name and website link in front of people don't it?:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

No more so than any other post. My signature is the same on all of them and that is the only mention of my website....and just about everybody here already knows my name after close to 4000 posts.
 
ed4copies said:
Perhaps not everyone is as infinitely well informed as you all and MAY gain something in the discussion of sources.

You CAN opt to leave the thread closed--no one forces you to read!!
Click to expand...

Or we can say, as a few have, that some of us are getting tired of the constant self promotion of certain vendors.

This used to be a forum for pen turners but it was rapidly becoming a forum for pen part vendors some of whom are now unhappy that the free ride has gone forever.
 
knowltoh said:
SCR0LL3R said:
You guys are friggin rediculous! And I don't mean Smitty or Ed.
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Amen!
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If you're saying that we're "friggin rediculous" because of our opposition to the over commercialization of IAP . . . . then so be it.

I'm proud to be a member of the "Friggin Rediculous Club" if it means helping to right the ship and getting IAP back on track to it being a family of penturners.
 
SCR0LL3R said:
You guys are friggin rediculous! And I don't mean Smitty or Ed.
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Would be nice to know why you think some guys are ridiculous. If you can explain the whole purpose of this post, I sure would like to know as my first thought was this is an advertising ploy.

But again, what do you think the purpose of the post was?
 
You're rediculous because according to some of you , vendors shouldn't be allowed to post at all. No vendor can say anything without a comment like this or a PM to a moderator.

But you go on "righting this ship".
 
SCR0LL3R said:
You're rediculous because according to some of you , vendors shouldn't be allowed to post at all. No vendor can say anything without a comment like this or a PM to a moderator.

But you go on "righting this ship".
Click to expand...

That is totally not what I am saying. My goodness vendors should have the most knowledge of pen turning issues if they turn and use the products they sell. I completely welcome their input on related issues or issues that would help grow the knowledge base of pen turning in general. Ed made a while back a few videos on how to turn acrylics which I though was a great tool. Granted at the time he had his company's name in it, however things did not get as heated as it is today.

The issue goes back to discussions such as this post. I asked you earlier what do you think the purpose of this post was?
 
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