Why is this? 24 out of 25 don't speak!

[ed4copies]

A couple recent threads refer to polls taken on the site. "78 people responded..." But over 1200 times the poll was viewed. So, a whole bunch (statistically relevant) of people view the poll, saying and doing NOTHING.

Nearly every topic has a ratio of one "entry" to 20 or so views. Why don't more people respond???? Do those of us who speak frequently represent your views so entirely that you have nothing to add??? (I doubt it!) Are you petrified that your opinions will be criticized? (This COULD be a contributing factor, but NO ONE has been EATEN on the site YET - You will not be HURT!!)

Seriously, can anyone (particularly those who don't participate a lot) tell me how to make you more comfortable and more active???

Thanks for any help.

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

I think the 78 people who voted, viewed the thread 15 times each and another 30 glanced at it and didn't respond.

 

[ed4copies]

Sadly, Ron, THAT is POSSIBLE! But, EVERY thread has about the same ratio over time. Half of the members (over 1500) HAVE posted somewhere, why not more often????

 

[TellicoTurning]

Ed,
I generally read every topic, and when I don't have anything to contribute, pass on to next... but since I do tend to gab some, I try to post pretty regularly.

 

[Jerryconn]

On nearly all polls I vote but I usually don't post a statement. I also go back to polls that I am interested in to see how others have voted, sometimes several times. On other threads that start "going downhill" I just don't participate. I just don't see how throwing fuel on the fire is benefical to penturning. And no, I don't like to see the personal attacks. If things get that bad with an individual I would rather deal with it by PM. I particpate because I want to learn everything I can about pen turning and maybe one day I will know as much several people I respect greatly on here. So I do a lot more reading than typing. Someday, maybe, I will be qualified to offer expert opinions.

 

[PenWorks]

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br /> (This COULD be a contributing factor, but NO ONE has been EATEN on the site YET - You will not be HURT!!)

Not eaten, but I have gone threw a box of bandages []

I wonder that to Ed, but I don't loose any sleep over it []

 

[skiprat]

Interesting thread, as a relative newbie to this site perhaps the answer could be from people like I was, a surfer lurker. You can read the post but can't reply unless you are a member.
Not sure If that is how it actually works technically, just a guess.

The other thing is that many people just don't have the confidence to contribute anything. When us newbies do make the leap, we tend to jump in with both feet, sometimes over our heads. Sometimes the replies to these first posts can seem a bit blunt, especially if you are not familiar with the personalities of the old hands. It is too easy to take things the wrong way and never make another post.

When a newbie asks a question that has previously been flogged to death it might actually not mean that he ( or she ) is too lazy to do a search before making the post, it could mean that they are also new to the whole concept of web based forums and like me, didn't know how to do a search. I still have no idea how to find an archived topic. [:I]

However, I would like to let other newbies know that since my first post, this site has become infinitely more helpful. I have had tons of e-mails from old hands that have given me advise on things that maybe the rest of the members already know and was pointless repeating it by replying on the forum.

As you can see, I have got over my shyness, and now you can't shut me up!!!!
Strangely though, I still don't feel that I've been here long enough yet to welcome other newbies. Go figure[]

 

[ilikewood]

Each time any person looks at a thread it is counted. I could spike the count by clicking a whole bunch of times and viewing it for updates....the viewed counts is not an accurate telling of what is going on.

Jeff, could you change this to "viewed by different people"?

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Sadly, Ron, THAT is POSSIBLE! But, EVERY thread has about the same ratio over time. Half of the members (over 1500) HAVE posted somewhere, why not more often????

I'll admit, my reply was a bit tongue in cheek. But, I wouldn't be surprised if the voters looked at the thread 5 or more times each.

Then again, there are a lot of lukers, always where, always will be.
Some of them feel they have nothing to contribute, others are takers and not givers. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a couple of lurkers doing market research here.

Still, there are those who fear the tirades which are common here at IAP, or as it was once put it "Ugly Threads".

I'm one of those people who viewed some recent polls and didn't vote. Sometimes I felt like it's more of a contest of who's right than anything else. Other times, and I know it may be hard to believe, but I simply didn't have an opinion or didn't want to stir the pot.

 

[airrat]

Well I think he is referring to the poll on the new nibs. Have that many people not seen them or they just don't feel its right to vote? There are some polls I dont vote on due not really having enough dealings with them.

 

[keithz]

My view on this is that, although I look at almost every topic that is posted, a lot of what I read is new information. I have been turning a grand total of 3 months, made 50 pens so far, sold all but 7 of them.

If there is a poll that I can possibly vote in, I'll vote. If there is a poll that is too specific, or beyond my knowledge or experience, I read. That doesn't mean I'm not interested or apathetic about it, I just don't know.

Believe me, if I have an opinion about something, you will hear it. But, only if I can add to a topic. I normally do not nor will I add fuel to a fire. That is counter-productive and does no one any good. I just want to learn as much as possible and the best way to do that is to read everything.

Just the humble opinion of a new penturner.

(Notice that I have just recently passed the 100 message mark and now have 3 stars)

keithz

 

[seht]

I know for me, the pages don't reset to show that I have read them. I can and have clicked on the same topic which is showing as new material only to find that I have already read all the posts there.

 

[Firefyter-emt]

Don't blame me, I voted for the old one! []

 

[wdcav1952]

Ed,

You make some great points about participation. I think some of the problem with lack of voting on polls is the content of some of the polls. I will not specify which polls to which I refer to avoid looking like flaming anyone. Face it, some of the polls are not well thought out. As a result, I generally do a quick check of the subject lines and let that decide whether or not I want to take the time to look at the poll.

Clear as mud? []

 

[jcollazo]

So, after reading this thread I thought "should I add another point of view"? The answer, for me, is that I really don't have anything to add. Jerry and Keith have hit the nail on the head as far as my views are concerned and Tom is also correct about some of the voting. In the case about the new nibs, I don't purchase or make these pens, and I honestly don't know what the nib looks like. So I didn't vote.

Just my 72cents (inflation 'ya know)

 

[gerryr]

I think that in the case of the Jr. Statesman/Gent nib design poll, people who don't make them ignored it as evidenced by the Joe's post. BUT, the photos were there so people could at least vote on whether they liked them in the photos. Like William, I don't even look at some of them because the title sounds sort of lame or even downright lame. I can personally attest to viewing the nib design poll probably 20 times so I could see how the voting was going.
We have over 3000 registered members, but doesn't number also include those whose accounts have been locked? And it obviously includes those who registered and have never said a word. The home page indicates that only something like half the members have ever posted anything.

 

[whatwoodido]

Ed-
Did you see that thread about Bill Baumbeck's Christmas Greeting on his Site? And all of the animosity that was posted. I think it can be summarized as, a bunch of members (on both sides of the issue) made it clear that their right to express there views regardless of whether or not they were inflamatory was more important than being courteous and respectful to other members of the forum. I know for a fact that many people with accounts are here only for group buys and classifieds because of this. In the past where I have stood up for people getting bashed for little or no reason I get 10-20 e-mails from people thanking me for standing up for the little guy and they almost always say they don't post because they don't want to be abused if they make a mistatement.

Drew

 

[bradh]

I guess I am too stupid to be afraid of asking a dumb question. I just jump in and ask, or tell people the little I know.
I find that people on this site will politely tell me when I am wrong. The result is I learn much more quickly when I participate, mainly because the people who know are responding to me and the problems I am personally encountering on my lathe.
I think forums like these are great and I don't understand why more people don't participate. It's not like you have to even use your real name if you don't want to!
Brad Harding
(my real name, BTW)

 

[Czarcastic]

Good question:
I normally reply only when I feel my response will add value or substance. Otherwise, I will read a post for the expert opinions of others. Often, I will visit an active post several times - sometimes over several days - to cull the replies and responses of the group, often without ever typing a response.

So I guess I would be one of the "Guilty" who do not post very often, but read almost everything.

By the way, you have a 15 to 1 ratio of read-to-post on this thread as well.

 

[wudnhed]

I try to read each post in certain forums at least once. If I'm interested or the thread has valuable info I will visit that thread several times. I have great respect for all input I get here. I also read the threads that turn "ugly" because I feel they give me insight to responders personalities but resist the temptation to thro in my 2 cents.

As far as voting, I have a couple times but too new to turning to have an opinion one way or the other on some or most questions. Maybe we can compare it to the way the country votes for our president, not many vote considering how many we are.

Uh Oh....... rambling, haven't had my second cup yet and not fully awake[]

 

[ed4copies]

Thanks to one and all, keep on contributing.

Particularly, skiprat, thanks for including your observations about private e-mails. To those who are afraid of the occasional "flaming", bear in mind the participants are usually "long-time members". The newer folks rarely get into the fray. So, when someone starts raving, it's part of what we have come to know as "his personality". (In these days of political correctness, I tried to think of ANY females that throw gas on the fire and I can't think of ONE, so I will stick with "his". This could be another good topic, someday!! Suggested topic: "Why does the IAP only attract REALLY CLASSY ladies?")

Back to the topic. I think Ron could be correct. I know I have checked this, and many other topics at least 10 times - perhaps this IS why the count gets so high. Although many of you responded, citing my allusion to the "nibs" poll, that is just ONE example. The ratio of 15-30 reads per entry is VERY consistent and I am really curious how many newer members (or less "active" members) are AFRAID to state their opinions. The responses we have received so far are certainly NOT headed in that direction.

I hope that Jeff takes some consolation in that. This site is very important and he dedicates a lot of time to it, MANY are enjoying the benefits, even if they are not contributing regularly. AND, the "ugly" threads don't seem to be driving people away.

Most of us have formed some great friendships on this site. I, for one, would like to form MORE friendships with the newer turners, helping you wherever possible. Most of us who have turned a lot of pens DON"T think we know everything. But, when we know SOMETHING that may help YOU, we look forward to telling you. If our answer MAY make you feel your question was "dumb", we are likely to send the answer privately, so as not to embarrass you, intentionally or not.

I had not planned on writing a book here.

Sorry, that's enough.

 

[angboy]

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br /> To those who are afraid of the occasional "flaming", bear in mind the participants are usually "long-time members". The newer folks rarely get into the fray. So, when someone starts raving, it's part of what we have come to know as "his personality". (In these days of political correctness, I tried to think of ANY females that throw gas on the fire and I can't think of ONE, so I will stick with "his". This could be another good topic, someday!! Suggested topic: "Why does the IAP only attract REALLY CLASSY ladies?")

Ed, you have got to be the smartest man alive- I never knew how brilliant you are!!!! [:X][:X]

 

[Ptolemy]

As a not too talkative, newer member I can throw my thoughts as to why I don't say much yet.

Basically, since I've only been turning for a few months I have more questions then answers. Whenever something comes up I don't know I post my question and get great help, but many times a question is posted that I really can't contribute to. However, I do visit the post many times because I'm curious as to the answer and keep checking in to see what advice is being given. I personally can drive a view count up pretty good if I am really interested in a topic I know little about.

Hopefully over time I'll have more answers then questions and when that happens I'll happily be helping people as much as current members have helped me. It is slowly happening. Trust me when I say you all have expanded my abilities faster then I could have even hoped.

There is also the "ugly" threads which many new posters are afraid to get wrapped up in or causing. New posters are always intimidated by that, myself included. Fortunately, they aren't as bad or frequent as other forums. My other hobby is poker. Now those are forums that can get down right ugly and very personal.

 

[ed4copies]

And, at least one lady is really perceptive, too!!

 

[ed4copies]

Brad,

I HOPE you are representative!! If newer people are reading, that's great!! But feel free to post a question, as well. Participate in the forum, actively, then we get to "know" you, too!! We will all benefit.

 

[LEAP]

I'd have to say I echo Ptolemy's post. I'm new here and learning every day. I've made a couple of posts where I thought I could contribute something but mostly just reading and absorbing. I have learned more since finding this forum than I could have with years of trail and ERROR on my own. A very wise man once told me "It is so much easier learning from other peoples mistakes than going through the pain of making them all yourself." He also told me to watch the guy who gets the most done with the least effort, thats the guy you want to learn from. I feel that I have found both here. I find I am spending almost as much time chasing all the topics on the forum as I am turning. It has enabled me to change from a complete ignoramus to a good beginner in a very short amount of time. The number of times I recheck a poll vary depending on the topic but I can't think of anything in the past few months that I have not looked at at least 10 times. For those of you who have been around and have compiled all of this wonderful information for us new guys you have my heartfelt thanks. I hope to someday be able to add to this fount of knowledge but until then keep it coming us new guys really apprecaite all you have to offer.
Phil

 

[Tanner]

Fairly new here. Being new at this, I would hate to tell someone how to do something I just learned. In the past, if I did respond to a question, I also let it be known that I am new and just wait for the experts to respond. I also don't have much time to devote to reading all the posts as I do work and that's more important than reading all the posts. I just look for the posts and polls that interest me. I probably do more searching and reading than anything. I also look at the pen pictures as I can visualize what wood or acrylic looks the best with what kits.

That all being said, thanks to all of you here, I just made some beauties. No splotches or dull spots. Fangars CA method is working perfectly as long as I don't wipe my bare fingers on the wood or sand through the CA ( learned here ). Pics to follow.

Please don't think there are a bunch of lurkers here. Many of us are new and really are not experienced enough to have an opinion on some of these polls. However, I do value the results as it helps me be a better craftsman.

 

[cozee]

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />A couple recent threads refer to polls taken on the site. "78 people responded..." But over 1200 times the poll was viewed. So, a whole bunch (statistically relevant) of people view the poll, saying and doing NOTHING.

Nearly every topic has a ratio of one "entry" to 20 or so views. Why don't more people respond???? Do those of us who speak frequently represent your views so entirely that you have nothing to add??? (I doubt it!) Are you petrified that your opinions will be criticized? (This COULD be a contributing factor, but NO ONE has been EATEN on the site YET - You will not be HURT!!)

Seriously, can anyone (particularly those who don't participate a lot) tell me how to make you more comfortable and more active???

Thanks for any help.

Perhaps so many choose not to particiapte in the polls is because most are in some way biased. Also, many times over, one cannot actually answer a poll the way they choose because the selections of which one needs to choose are narrow and limited. The latter is the reason I usually do not participate in them.

 

[BigRob777]

I rarely post, when I answer a poll. My click is my answer, usually.
Rob

 

[cozee]

And as for posting in general, perhaps the lack of participation could be due to the one or two who seem to have free range in saying what they want to whomever they want. Seems since they are very accomplished craftsmen/artists, they seem to feel they have the right to criticize everything that doesn't come from them, both publically and privately.[]

 

[redbulldog]

Some of these posters are known for being a "know-it-all" and can cover all areas as far as they are concerned with total authority, sometimes they just need to shut-up. Self made men, in their own eyes!!!!

 

[Tubby]

I do not consider myself a new turner, but I do not post regularly. I have learned TONS of tricks, techniques, and gained so much info from this site it is ridicilous. I read the posts everyday several times a day, and even visit posts of specific pens even more than that. I do not feel I am as accomplished as most turners on this site, but I do not feel uncomfortable posting my work, or my feelings about a pen on this site.

I have on occasion ask a few questions and have gotten little or no replies to my answer. (Last one was in casting and stabilization). I also do not post alot because I have a wealth of information 1.5 miles down the road from me (Don Ward). We talk about specific pens, techniques, and posts, but if I have a question I prefer to call or go see Don than to post a comment. Sometimes it is easier to see it done than it is to explain it. I have PM some of the creators of some of the pens to ask about their techniques, or to clarify exactly how the pen was made.

I haven't posted any pictures in awhile because I don't have my photo booth setup, but I do feel comfortable posting knowing I am going to get honest answers from the folks here at the forum.

I don't have alot of posts, but alot of the time when I am about to post, someone else has said what I wanted to say or ask my question. I am not one to give the "standard" reply (Great pen etc....) as one person put it. I did not realize it was such a big issue to have a large post count.( Not trying to stir the pot here.....) If I feel I can make a contribution to a post I will post.

I am not trying to stir the pot with my answer to the question, nor complaining, or whining. I enjoy and look forward to logging onto IAP and seeing what people who have the same interest create, and sometimes even sneak in a post or a picture of a new pen I have made. I have never felt I would be eaten........bitten maybe[][], but not eaten!!

My 2 cents worth.

Ed Jordan
Wichita Falls, TX

 

[RPM]

I for one do not post much due to lack of time. I have been around the IAP for a long time and I visit this site daily, but do not have nearly the time to check each post in each forum. I do jump in and do a quick read if the topic catches my eye. If I do feel that I have something relevant to contribute, I will post. I have posted more in the last week than in any other similar time period because I have managed to take the week off. Unfortunately, as with most of you I'm sure, my job interferes with my life [xx(].
Happy New Year,
Richard

 

[Rifleman1776]

Even those of us who do post regularly do not post on a topic everytime we log in. I will read recent posts on a subject and then (often) move on without commenting. I don't think you can draw any conclusions from those numbers. And even if you did, so what? What's the point of fretting over it?