Where is Pen Making Going???

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jttheclockman

jttheclockman

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I asked this question back in March of 2010 and it got a lot of good responses. I will not link the thread but you can search it out if you like. What I will do is copy and paste my entire opening question here and as I said in another thread, there are many new members here and they are joining by the numbers every week. So the thoughts may have changed a bit or more ideas have come along. This is just a conversation starter question so do not read anything into it.



Thought I would post this here because this is a topic about pen making. Here is the question:

WHERE DO YOU THINK PEN MAKING IS HEADING???

I ask this question because on another forum a statement was randomly thrown out there and it got me to thinking and that hurts most time so I thought I would try everyone else here. Here is some thoughts I had. Now this is not to offend any one so please do not read into this more than what the words are. This is the greatest forum on the net when it comes to penmaking hands down and that has been proven over and over by the membership.

Here are some thoughts. I think penmaking has evolved over the years to new heights that may or may not be perceived by others as a good thing. One thing for sure is we have more and more new kits entering the market everyday. We have more and more suppliers entering the market and weather they are just resellers is mostly the case. But I think the biggest change that has come is the materials we are now making our pens with. I think we all agree that wood was the premier material years ago. You have many new acrylics which are commercially made or members made. You now have laser kits and I am thinking that there are only 2 real big players in this field that I know of and these kits are getting better and better everyday. We have new metal blanks showing up along with many new blanks with all kinds of things clear casted in them. We have people making blanks with all kinds of designs and segments in them and they are great. Unfortunately some of these ideas have been exploited into the commercial stage and that may also be looked upon as either a good thing or a bad one depending how you view it.

But before I get too long winded here I will again ask the question, WHERE ARE WE HEADING?? Are we still pen turners or just assemblers??? Is the penturning artform going down the right path??? Are we becoming too big and pushing ourselfs to so much competition that it is hurtful in the long run??? Will the market bear all the new penturners coming along everyday. Will the public get tired of us???

Just curious what everyone else has to say. Some thoughts to ponder. Thanks for replying.

I will post some of my reactions later after some of you share your thoughts.
 
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Are we just assemblers? No! Besides the obvious, picking the kit, finish, and blank that all go together and this is not the easiest thing in the world to do, largely due to differences in peoples perceptions on what does go together well is an important step in what we do. We also have to still turn the darn thing and some of us do this better than others, we can see this sometimes in the photos that people share, and this is not to belittle or diminish what people do, it is a process to get better and we all get better with time, at least I hope I will. I think that we are getting more and more innovative with what we do, personally I have been delving into decals, also not the easiest thing to do, at least from my limited experience, every time I think I have it, a new problem crops up.
I think that as most people get better they want to try new things. New kits make this easier, we also see, decals, accents, new people delving into casting and many others. Recently I posted a tongue in cheek post about wanting to be a segmenter after purchasing some cheap segmented blanks to practice learning to use the DREADED skew. But many people on here due some fantastic work with segmenting and when they do a great job pairing it with the right kit and finish, WOW. In the Bash this last February, we seen in one of the casting contests, some real nice pens submitted in Poly Clay, and most people have seen the work of a member here, who has set such a high standard in Poly Clay that it has inspired many to start using that medium. I myself have a drawer full of Poly Clay that I intend to experiment with when I get the time. Segmenting, casting in different mediums and different things that are being casted, along with stabilization of materials, Poly Clay, ugly wood, pretty wood, Hybrid wood and plastic, the kitless pens that are made, pens where you use parts of kits and part kitless. I am sure I left some out, oh and the recent topics here on the new cheaper laser engravers on the market.
So where are we going? Who Knows, but it is looking like a great trip to be on right now. The recent past has seen so many new developments and the future is looking like we are going to see a lot more. I think the more creative our members get the more it inspires others to try new things.

Like I said earlier, there are other new techniques that have come out, so if I have not mentioned some or forgot to mention some ones that have been around for a long time, don't think I don't appreciate them, because I do, all of them.

One thing is for sure, there will be around a 100 new ways to do a CA finish in the next few years and I can't wait.
 
Well, John, you asked the question and it is a good one, but I think that some of the comments you made actually detract from your own question.

First off, if pen making is an artform (and I think it is), then the path it takes will necessarily be the right one ... art makes its own path, and not just one path but many, all highly diverse and dependent on the individuals involved. Your own work is extremely creative and motivating. You set the bar high, both in concept and execution; not many of us have the skills to even attempt to imitate. With you as an example, pen-making as an artform is definitely on the right track.

Secondly, you seem to be wondering if there can be too many penturners. Are you serious? I would say that the potential for newbies to contribute new ideas is a very big reason to encourage all who feel the inclination to join us. The more the better.

Thirdly, competition is not hurtful. It's inspiring. A case in point is the current Olympic games; lots of records being broken and being talked about.

Fourthly, you ask, "will the market bear" this growth. I'd be rather foolish to think of being in penturning for the money. Sure, a few sales are nice. But, in my experience, very few potential customers have ever thought about there even being such a thing as a custom-made pen. So the more people displaying their handmade pens the better, and the more likely all of us are to sell a few more.

From an artistic point of view, the "direction" I question most is the proliferation of new pen kits, most of which get tried and displayed a few times and then dismissed. There is really very little lasting creativity to be found in using many of the new kits that have appeared in the last 5 years. I don't think that the gearshift idea or the lever-action idea, etc. are contributing very much to our "art", and they are rather inhibiting by actually constraining a pen-maker's scope for creativity.

I'd like to see the pen kit manufacturers toss out at least 50% of the presently marketed kits and put some serious thought into improving the remaining ones so that they encourage an artist-like creativity for penmakers. How often we get stuck with barrel walls that are so thin that we face brass tube show-through and the inability to enlarge the tube hole to accommodate a couple of layers of paint.

Surely, there must be ways to improve even the decades-old slimline so that not all nibs/clips/finials look the same, and you're not stuck with a loose-fitting centerband, with the two halves wiggling where they meet.

And as for the Sierra twist and its look-alikes, that one for sure gets tiring and needs a redesign.

I hope my remarks somehow resonate with others on IAP.

John, I admire your work. As long as there are guys like you joining us on a weekly or daily basis we are headed in the right direction. The more the better; there can't be too many.

Thanks for the question.
 
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First of all I want to sincerely thank Mal and Curt for taking the time to read my question and to add very good insight. You have taken the time to explain your answers which I was hoping people would do because it is not a yes or no answer.

Mal I see your point about my comments and that is good that you see another avenue. I put those questions on the end to get people to stop and think as you did. I totally agree with you about the pen companies not putting more effort into making better simple quality kits. Improve on the basics. The addition of all these themed kits does nothing for me. I want the blank to speak to the customer. I am with you 100%

Curt thank you as well for your insight and I do hope that we are looked upon as artisans and not assemblers. Putting in the time and pride to turn out quality products is what we need to share and demonstrate to the customers we encounter.

I do hope others will join in and share their thoughts. Thanks.
 
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I've thought about that very question before. I've seen other threads discussing that same question.

I myself am pretty new to pen turning. I'm only 25 years old and I think it's the bee's knees! (Yes, I'm really 25 and I really say things like that...) The thing is, hand crafts have been around forever and will continue to stick around, but the popularity will fluctuate. It's like furniture: the master craftsmen who make furniture from scratch are still around. People pass that kind of skill down the generations. The difficulty is keeping interest in the younger generations. Also, where do you even buy pen turning kits and equipment? I bought the majority of mine online. The nearest Woodcraft to me is over an hour away, I believe. I only went there once, as it's an inconvenience in busy life. Also, Dawn and Ed are the best and I love supporting them!

Kids these days... Can we get them interested?
Materials... Can we keep them around?

I think the answer to it all is yes, pen turning will stick around, but I think we should do our part in "spreading the word." My niece and nephew are both interested and when they're older, I'll definitely teach them! I do wish pen turning was more common in local places. I want to be able to stop by Lowes or Home Depot and pick up what I need! Just my two cents.
 
Even with the internet as a sales venue, I feel it it primarily "local" that the pen market is defined, and even then it will change as demographics morph due to the changes of the foundational economic industry of a local region.

High artistic value is what will define the ability for the local pen sales to go beyond "local".

Local markets will define what the artist will be able to do unless exceptional artistic value in design, fit and finish push it into other market areas or create enough draw from outsiders (tourists). I live near a depressed area rampant with generational poverty. One might sell two or three high artistic value pens for $100.00 over a few of months, where as in markets like New York or Tokyo, the same pens would go for $300 - $400 at the rate of two or three per day.

In a way, the OP question reminds me of the science, mechanics, wood magazines of the '50s to mid '60s in which home shop made "modern" furniture designs were highly thought of. It was during this time that great wood artists like Maloof, Nakashima and Esherick, along with Jarvi and a few others began to define "fine" woodworking for aspiring wood artists to follow and copy.
 
John,
I have thought about this question many times. I have stayed with plain simple kits so the blank speaks out. I rarely do plain grained wood. I deal with Historic woods that have a story. Or Burl woods.

Most important, Your customer is looking for something unusual to place into their hands. Give it to them.
 
I am amused at the request for new pen kits.

You want "bare bones", but well constructed?? Have you seen the atrax from Berea? To my mind, it is as minimalist as you can get. But it sure does NOT fly off the shelf. Meanwhile, the oft-maligned "chrome sierra" sells like hot cakes.

Want different pen designs? The bolt action comes in dozens of "flavors"--why?? CAUSE THEY SELL!!

Pen kit manufacturers use ONE major gauge to determine future actions---WHAT SELLS!!! They need to make tens of thousands, so they need to be confident they will SELL tens of thousands!

I've READ the IAP for nearly a decade, with so many espousing their love of "high-end" plating, "jewelry" quality and other euphemisms.

I now have sales records to judge what people actually say, with their dollars. There is a WORLD of difference--so don't expect the manufacturers to change course until penmakers' purchasing changes.

"Hold not thine breath"!!!!
Ed
 
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It has been fun to watch where it has come from. I started this hobby about 20 years ago, back in the Yahoo group. Was asking questions about casting no one could answer. Did lots of research with what was out there, bought the casting craft and went for it. Didn't turn out like I thought it should, and with nobody to question, gave it up. Now look. All the different kits offered by the "big" boys generally started with something a turner did. Laser kits, bullet pens, etc. It will be fun to see where it goes. Like Ed says, what sells is what is made, regardless of what we say we want.
 
Well Ed you bring the sales end into the discussion. I can truly say that no company gets my money for these hideous kits they sell and yes I am Talking PSI. What got them started on this thought process of they need to constantly need to make these themed designs is beyond me. Do they sell, I suppose because it is like everything what is new people like to try and then they move on to other things. They are all built off the same chassis. Now you mention the Sierra kit. That is not an overwhelming design at all. You did need some sort of character to a pen.

You do have an insight as to what sells and what does not and you see those trends but DO NOT knock the few that want quality and minimal trinkets hanging off their pens. You read about it so often here is because those are the ones that speak up. Others are happy with what is being sold and continue to buy them. We can only purchase what is available to us. We can not design the pens. What these manufacturers do is see what is selling and then make clones of it. Many clones of it. Nothing new. It is PSI that is making all the new designs.


Now I have been a member here almost as long as you so I have read the same posts as you. What you do not read much about is the failures of these kits. Yes on occasion you read about click mechanisms and plating failures but what I would like to see is more of that and then maybe the big boys will pay attention. They do watch this site like a hawk. You do have small start up people who are trying to create better quality pens and better designs but it takes money to play with the big boys. With this comes bigger asking prices and as you and I read here all the time people do this as a hobby and many give away their work so they are not going to spend big dollars on kits. So the cycle continues.

But I do appreciate you giving us a little insight on the sales end of things.
 
I second the thoughtful responses, and add:

1) Pens for small hands: Since 60-80% of those interested in my pens are small-handed literate females who naturally out-live (and often out-think) men, I'm surprised at the paucity of kits for small hands. I focus on Slimlines because they fit an array of hands.

2) Expansion of art and uniqueness to both conform to and gently nudge public taste, niche market expansion: I'm blessed with a broad and close friendship demographic here in SF, and hear often from a virtual United Nations and menagerie of professionals about the meaning of pen color, form, content, ergonomics, etc. - eg: my dear Chinese friends are intrigued by jade-like pen content because it translates to lucky, prosperous, love-attraction, protection, child raising skill, etc. My scientist friends enjoy pens that include vocational + artistic references. Samoan friends love family symbology. My chef/culinary world friends are liking the rice pens. Textile designers like the hand dyed silk pens. You get the idea.

3) Pen as reclamation of articulate self-expression, expanding markets in the direction of those who love language: Shakespeare added 640 words to the English language, but many young people have reduced English down to " it's like, it's like, it's like - you know". Sherry Turkle wrote Reclaiming Conversation last year - worthy reading. My wife is uniquely articulate and agrees that pens promote better usage of language. I note that many friends in the literary circles actually despise computers and other digital devices. Many here are aware that Thoreaus' dad was a pencil maker and taught Henry David to make his own pencils. I'm not naively suggesting that youth will again prize language skills, but there are some pockets of hope. A few families have expressed interest in hand-made paper personalized post cards to go with the pens (and against the tide of email communication) - pens + cards - paper making is another fun art/craft - so why not?

4) Pens as part of ensembles: a number of my female "commissioners" ask for matching bangles, hand-dyed scarves, pendants, etc., so I go with it.

5) Pens as art pieces: Mal and Hank and others are right. There is plenty of market for one-of-a-kind pens with a promise to the owner that they will never be reproduced.

6) Pens as affirmations: many have asked for very personal messages in their pens - well beyond "dear diary" (but that also works).

Viva IAP.

Happy Tuesday - Bob
 
John, actually if you want to design a pen, we could get it made.

However, we will have to buy thousands in order for the price to be reasonable. So, if you design your perfect pen it will either have to be available to everyone (to reach economic quantity) or you will have to purchase a VERY large quantity.

Which would you prefer?
 
Ed, Paul,
What you said is absolutely true. It is what sells that dictates - for the moment.

We have seen many come and many go. Shucks, I did this twice due to time consuming work. But some just get burned out of making the same thing over and over after three or four years. This is where creativity and looking forward drives us forward as Paul mentioned. Some "vision" with "secret" ideas are the impetus for some people, or understanding where the money is - drives others.

As one very large international company says (or used to say): "We don't invest on R&D, we look at the market and see what sells, duplicate that and make it less expensive" (cheaper). (And dare anyone to sue them.) This kinda plays into John T's other post on "secret or sharing" of ideas.

If we only copy others and live on what is currently available, we will eventually fill a market with copies of copies. As Paul inferred, you keep trying and experiencing and sooner or later you push it forward to another level. Without the vision, it will eventually just be boring - except to those who REALLY make the money on it.
 
This entry is my OPINION, as a member: The "artistic" avenue is traveled by few penmakers, but these are the leaders into the unknown future.

When I talk with them, I encourage THEM to use minimalist hardware to display their artwork. We are able to agree on a "frame" for their art.

Things that were once "hidden" as techniques that an artist wanted to keep to himself will eventually surface (my "Eagle" blanks are only impressive in light of how long ago they were made--others make similar blanks now, routinely). So, the penmaking community "artists" will continue to push each other to new designs.

The real question is, "How long can penmaking keep the attention of a budding artist?" For those that continue to pursue the path for years, past failures (mechanically) will produce future victories--THESE are the people the penmaking community needs to encourage!

The IAP is one vessel to accomplish that--I will continue to observe, since I was not gifted with the "artistic flair". Thank god for those who are!!

ed4copies--member
 
ed4copies said:
John, actually if you want to design a pen, we could get it made.

However, we will have to buy thousands in order for the price to be reasonable. So, if you design your perfect pen it will either have to be available to everyone (to reach economic quantity) or you will have to purchase a VERY large quantity.

Which would you prefer?
Click to expand...

Really Ed:smile:
 
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