What's in a name

[Smitty37]

That each vendor provide their own name for common kits has been kicked around here for sometime now. I wonder if people think it helps or hurts the buyer.

We do have multiple names for some kits i.e. the mass of appelations referring to Berea Hardwood's Sierra and the fact the the word sierra has come to represent a lot of other kits that only look like Berea Hardwoods but have very different internals and operate very differently.

I think it's time we had a frank discussion about this and get a feel for what our members want.

 

[thewishman]

If I want a Sierra (or any other pen) I want it to be a real Serra. Each iteration of a pen design should have some unique identifier that makes it completely clear what it is.

I had my first order for pens that was to pay for my lathe. They were for Cigar pens and I wanted a specific maker's kits, so I ordered them from a supplier who carried those specifically manufactured kits. The Cigars I received were from a different (and inferior) source. When I complained, the answer I received was, "They are the same kits, just from a different source." The transmissions were shoddy and the parts tolerances were just slightly off - enough that the refills required by my customer did not fit. I was NOT happy to order a specific kit and get a different one.

Unique names are not only desirable, but I think they should be mandatory.
(Stepping down from my soapbox.)

 

[Smitty37]

If I want a Sierra (or any other pen) I want it to be a real Serra. Each iteration of a pen design should have some unique identifier that makes it completely clear what it is.

I had my first order for pens that was to pay for my lathe. They were for Cigar pens and I wanted a specific maker's kits, so I ordered them from a supplier who carried those specifically manufactured kits. The Cigars I received were from a different (and inferior) source. When I complained, the answer I received was, "They are the same kits, just from a different source." The transmissions were shoddy and the parts tolerances were just slightly off - enough that the refills required by my customer did not fit. I was NOT happy to order a specific kit and get a different one.

Unique names are not only desirable, but I think they should be mandatory.
(Stepping down from my soapbox.)

That uncovers another problem - if a vendor finds a different manufacturer - does the vendor change the name of the kit?

 

[Bob Wemm]

Being VERY new to this Pen turning, I get terribly confused with differing names for the same or similar kits/pens.
From my point of view each kit should be specifically identifyable. I realise that this would be quite difficult but if a person wants a "Specific" kit, then they should be able to order that kit and recieve what they want, not something made by someone else.
IMHO only.
Bob.

 

[ed4copies]

If I want a Sierra (or any other pen) I want it to be a real Serra. Each iteration of a pen design should have some unique identifier that makes it completely clear what it is.

I had my first order for pens that was to pay for my lathe. They were for Cigar pens and I wanted a specific maker's kits, so I ordered them from a supplier who carried those specifically manufactured kits. The Cigars I received were from a different (and inferior) source. When I complained, the answer I received was, "They are the same kits, just from a different source." The transmissions were shoddy and the parts tolerances were just slightly off - enough that the refills required by my customer did not fit. I was NOT happy to order a specific kit and get a different one.

Unique names are not only desirable, but I think they should be mandatory.
(Stepping down from my soapbox.)

That uncovers another problem - if a vendor finds a different manufacturer - does the vendor change the name of the kit?

Yes, I have!

If you call a kit made by someone else, a Sierra, you are trying to capitalize on the BRAND Berea built.

Calling a pen a Jr. Gent builds on the BRAND built by CSUSA. Now, you are seeing the "downside": If CSUSA has a problem with the Jr. version 1, everyone who copied that name ALSO has a problem.

Think how much easier it would be if you had called them the Junior Smittys!!!! To go with the LeRois!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: No stigma to either pen, then!! You EARN your OWN BRAND!!! For better or worse, in sick parts and in healthy ones.... till the pen falls apart!!

 

[Smitty37]

Being VERY new to this Pen turning, I get terribly confused with differing names for the same or similar kits/pens.
From my point of view each kit should be specifically identifyable. I realise that this would be quite difficult but if a person wants a "Specific" kit, then they should be able to order that kit and recieve what they want, not something made by someone else.
IMHO only.
Bob.

By specific I assume you mean XYZ pen kit manufactured by ABC company. You have that now in some cases but not on many of the "low end" kits where many vendors handle kits made by the same manufacturer.

Vendors change manufacturers and are not under any obligation to disclose who their manufacturer is. Sometimes they will, other times they won't.

 

[Coysquibbly]

How do our politicians put it? Non partisan, transparent and of course integrity based. I for one would like to have some kind of standard. I will not buy a cheap kit and try to pass it off as something else. I mostly use quality components and platings, but if someone is price conscious, I certain make them aware of the difference and price accordingly.

Kevin

 

[navycop]

Would that be like (hypothetically speaking) buying a slimline from Woodcraft and one from CSUSA. they might use the same supplier just different vendors?

 

[CREID]

The different names for the same kit or the different names for similar kits or the different names for different kits or the the the arrrgggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Coysquibbly]

It certainly can be frustrating. I recently bought some cigar hybrids, some Big Bens with higher end finishings and some Cigars with higher end finishings. Call me a Newbie:biggrin: but I like to pre-tube blanks awaiting a large order. Who besides me :redface: knows that there is a slight difference in lower barrel tube sizes between the Big Bens and the Cigars/Hybrid Cigars.

I only know this because some idiot told me they found this out the hard way:wink: Apparently there is a reason we all have a set of centre punches from Arbour Freight or Busy Bee.:biggrin:

Kevin

 

[Coysquibbly]

And how do I know that within 12 hours I will know how many mm that difference is:biggrin:

Kevin

 

[PenPal]

Having just lost best part of an hour making a post on this subject when it fell out of my computer. Please think about this I was deeply involved as a technician the fifth in Australia with Rank Xerox Service Manager for the first 12 yrs in Australia.

In the fullness of time all photocopying commonly here became known as a Xerox when Kodak, 3M and others may have produced the machines that made the photocopies.

Naming and blaming is not new but no more accurate than the above, I clearly remember being a guest with Australia wide Service Managers at the massive in house manufacturer of 80 gsm
Bond Paper. As you know any machine that uses Bond Paper depends on quality in every way.

So here I was at the horses mouth so to speak and I versed my accurate observations to the makers, very satisfying and productive.

We have one main dealer here in Australia who has trod the makers floors even written provided pics of factories speaks the language fluently as well as English, when he speaks it is real knowledge of his product. Even car manufacturers market someone elses manufactured cars under their own name, General Motors come to mind among many others

Examine who has the largest axe to grind perhaps it is brand loyalty swapping continually purchases from hither and yon to save a buck, increase the profit, convenience.

We victims of brand naming, misinterpretation etc all at some time experience problems in every endeavor its how we recover, learn that matters.

Have success is my wish in our own way honestly.

Kind regards Peter.

 

[Smitty37]

Would that be like (hypothetically speaking) buying a slimline from Woodcraft and one from CSUSA. they might use the same supplier just different vendors?

They could use the same supplier - for some or all of their kits. In this specific case I don't think they do.

PSI and CSUSA both used to get a lot of their kits from Dayacom - don't know if they still do or not (I think not but can't say that for sure). Some identical kits sold under different names.

Woodcraft and a number of others get most of their kits from Berea Hardwoods. Some identical kits sell under different names.

 

[Smitty37]

And how do I know that within 12 hours I will know how many mm that difference is:biggrin:

Kevin

You'll know - almost - brass tubes are probably not manufactured to terribly tight tolerances. Folks will tell you that even from the same manufacturer there are sometimes differences that cause parts to fit tight or fit loosely.