What would you like to see in a Kitless "slimline"

[magpens]

In this thread, the subject of a kitless "slimline" came up.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/high-end-but-slim-153942/

Would like to hear from people on what they understand by a kitless slimline

What should the requirements be ?

Must it use a Cross refill, or would a Parker be preferred ?

Must it be close to 0.33" in diameter (min. diameter on a conventional slimline) or would a little bigger be OK ... say 0.43" ?

Must it be a twist pen, or would a click pen be preferred ?

Must it have two barrels separated by a center band or is single barrel OK?

Some of these questions are functional considerations, some are purely cosmetic.

The concept of kitless has always seemed to me to be a bit fuzzy ...
Which factory made parts should one be allowed to use to qualify as kitless?
Obviously, it is OK to use a purchased refill and spring.
But what about the twist transmission or the click mechanism ... probably OK.
And then the nib, clip, and pushbutton (for a clicker) ??

Please post your ideas about what you think the requirements should be. Thnks.

 

[leehljp]

This is a great idea.

I would stay with the .33 size as other (larger) sizes are already here. Personally, I would like to see as small a size as possible that would fit a parker style refill inside.

Other options are up in the air for me. As long as it works fine and is durable. I prefer twist personally but could handle click.

Thanks Mal, for bringing this thread up.

 

[MRDucks2]

I would lean towards small as possible without being fragile, Parker style refill, twist or maybe a click using the ?schmidt? Click mechanism I read about 2 weeks ago (not with my notes).


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[magpens]

Thanks Hank and Mike. The Schmidt click mechanism might be a little too big in diameter to properly mate with the .33" size but I will check it out.

 

[Cwalker935]

Mal:
Here are a couple of concept pens that I made using a clicker mechanism that can be used with your size constraints. One was made using a cross style refill and was done to see if I could turn aluminum on a wood lath. The second was made to see if I could successfully thread African Blackwood, use a Parker refill and incorporate a Celtic knot into a single barrel clicker. Both showed promise for further development and are on my list of things to pursue further. The Blackwood pen is a little thick and could be made thinner without the knot. It would be hard to put a finer taper on the nib end given the refill clearances with the Parker refill.

Cody

 

[Cwalker935]

Push button mechanisms

https://richardlgreenwald.com/shop/push-button-mechanisms/

https://richardlgreenwald.com/shop/push-button-mechanisms-custom-gold-plated/

 

[magpens]

Thank you, Cody ... those are lovely !

The first picture is not enlargeable ... is it possible for you to make it enlargeable ?

Also, what is the max diameter of the Schmidt clicker mech ... or maybe it is on those websites you linked.

EDIT: I looked on the website ... it is 7.25 mm so obviously OK for a slimline size.

 

[TattooedTurner]

As slim as possible with a parker style refill. I prefer a centerband, to me a full length body looks a little bland regardless of how nice the blank is, but I could live without it. Click is a must, the nurses and MA's I made twist pens and rollerballs for at the clinic love them but don't use them because it's not convenient, they've all become the dreaded "purse pen".

 

[stuckinohio]

Richard sells smaller click mechanisms. basically the same as the larger schmidt mechanism but without the bulkier outer pieces.
https://richardlgreenwald.com/shop/vintage-push-button-mechanism/

https://richardlgreenwald.com/shop/push-mechanisms/

first one press in. second one thread in.

 

[stuckinohio]

Here's a pic of the first one.

 

[Cwalker935]

Thank you, Cody ... those are lovely !

The first picture is not enlargeable ... is it possible for you to make it enlargeable ?

Also, what is the max diameter of the Schmidt clicker mech ... or maybe it is on those websites you linked.

EDIT: I looked on the website ... it is 7.25 mm so obviously OK for a slimline size.

Here is the original post for the aluminum clicker, the photo can be enlarged there. Matching a clip to the mechanism is the one issue that I have with this mechanism. A slimline clip is close but that brings you back to a lower quality finish.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/aluminum-clicker-138052/

 

[stuckinohio]

It would be easier to make a slim kitless with one of the click mechanisms i posted above and use a parker refill. With a twist I believe you would encounter some bulk simply just because of the transmission.

 

[magpens]

Thanks Jay and Lewis.

Jay ... I note your points. Could make a single barrel with a fake center band. Yes to click

Lewis ... I've got to order some of those. . Glad there are some choices

 

[magpens]

Thanks, Cody ... I wanted to see details of that clip. Where did you get it ?

You have nicely matched the size of the pen barrel and the click mech ... Like it !

 

[stuckinohio]

The second I one linked to, the threaded one, is the thinnest and would be your best bet. I keep meaning to order some as well, but I don't like thin pens and generally don't have many customers that do!

 

[magpens]

I wonder if a tap is sold by the same vendor to mount this mech ?

The second I one linked to, the threaded one, is the thinnest and would be your best bet. I keep meaning to order some as well, but I don't like thin pens and generally don't have many customers that do!

 

[Cwalker935]

Thanks, Cody ... I wanted to see details of that clip. Where did you get it ?

You have nicely matched the size of the pen barrel and the click mech ... Like it !

Pocket Clips

 

[stuckinohio]

https://richardlgreenwald.com/shop/tap-metric-m4-2-x-35-tapered/

Yep!

 

[PatrickR]

Looks like i need to place another order with RG.

Length hasn't been discussed. For me it needs to be short enough to clip in a shirt pocket.

 

[MRDucks2]

Thank you, Cody ... those are lovely !

The first picture is not enlargeable ... is it possible for you to make it enlargeable ?

Also, what is the max diameter of the Schmidt clicker mech ... or maybe it is on those websites you linked.

EDIT: I looked on the website ... it is 7.25 mm so obviously OK for a slimline size.

Here is the original post for the aluminum clicker, the photo can be enlarged there. Matching a clip to the mechanism is the one issue that I have with this mechanism. A slimline clip is close but that brings you back to a lower quality finish.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/aluminum-clicker-138052/

Seems there is a huge aftermarket for slimline clips. Surely some have better finishes.


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[magpens]

Summary So Far

Thanks to the ideas contributed, it would seem that a kitless slimline design should be:

1) slim - close to the original slim diameter of 0.33"

2) clicker if possible, but some "tolerance" for twist

3) shirt pocket compatible in length (and with a clip - never in question)

It would seem that any click mechanism would be acceptable.
There are suggestions to use mechanisms like those available from Greenwald but others that could be pirated from existing kits of any flavor would be OK also, I would think (my comment).

I assume that it is OK to "import" the nib and the clip from any suitable source. Manufacture of these by the pen-maker does not seem to be a necessary pre-requisite for applying the term "kitless". . Purists may differ on that statement, but it seems that "kitless", in most pen-makers minds, refers mainly to the body/barrel of the pen. . Self-made clips and nibs would obviously be enhancements. . This includes consideration of integral nibs as in the examples made by Cody.

Of course, this is just an interim summary.. More suggestions are welcome and strongly encouraged. . Again, thanks to all who have contributed so far, with encouragement to others who are thinking, or have thought, about the issues to contribute also on an ongoing basis.

I think a thread like this is a good idea in order to establish a consensus.

 

[stuckinohio]

Strictly my opinion here, and many disagree with me, but if you are planning to make and market this as a custom high end pen using high end materials then you should avoid using a factory plastic clicker. They will fail. I would use one of the clickers I linked to or a twist mechanism. If the transmission fails then you can simply swap it out. Not so easy with plastic clicker sometimes.

 

[magpens]

Point taken. Thank you Lewis.

At this point, this is all conceptual, or prototypical ... a test of feasibility, if you will.

No plans for high end "anything", in spite of there possibly being some circumstantial evidence to the contrary !

I like doing "figment of the imagination" things and "one offs".

 

[Dieseldoc]

Mal:

I will run a .33 body,clip less with only a twist transmission.

Keep tuned!!!

Charlie

 

[magpens]

Will it be Diesel-powered ????? :biggrin:

 

[Dieseldoc]

Will it be Diesel-powered ????? :biggrin:

Cat powered

 

[PatrickR]

This also a good source of info and supplies. Thanks Mal.
I ordered some of these with a tap.
https://richardlgreenwald.com/shop/push-mechanisms/

Ive put a Schmidt on the slimline pro. Very easy and a great mechanism but I'm not crazy about how it looks on this kit. It can't be buried easily because it tapers.

As far as the "kitless" term it really only matters here and to the maker. I'm more concerned with the final product.

I'd rather not have to make a nib for these but I've not found a supplier. I really like the Tempest nib and would love to find a similar one sold singly.

 

[magpens]

Very good points, Patrick. Thank you very much for your contribution.

It seems like there is indeed a market for a consultative and competent maker of pen parts to jump in and offer his wares to pen-makers. There is too much mediocre and make-do stuff but not a lot of appealing and really functional stuff.

 

[bmachin]

If by "Nib" you mean nose cone, Richard Greenwald has them here:

https://richardlgreenwald.com/shop/nose-cone-gold-plated/

Bill

 

[magpens]

Thank you, Bill. I was aware of those nose cones, as I should have called them.

Nice as they are, they are not a solution to all needs, unfortunately. . Size and shape is kinda .... you know !

I am looking for a two piece, screw together, nib, in the design of the Slimline Pro nib, which facilitates refill replacement AND has a more appealing shape. I think the only answer is to make it myself, which is not really a big deal aside from getting it plated at acceptable cost in small quantities.

I would make it out of brass, as Richard's offering probably is, then get it plated.

I think there might be home-brew methods of chrome plating but I am reluctant to get into that nasty chemistry stuff.

The screw-in Schmidt click mechanism will allow refill replacement at THAT end, but the architecture of this clicker is not ideally suitable, as pointed out by someone above. . Perhaps a modification is possible by gluing on an inside-tapered ring to make the diameter and shape more appropriate for what I would like . . I am considering that. Thanks for your response.

 

[PatrickR]

I agree with Mal, That nose cone / nib is blah.
Silver pen parts makes some nice ones available singly but the cost is up there.
Making them would be time consuming, that combined with plating cost would put them up there. It might be cheaper to buy a kit just for the nib if its what you need.

 

[magpens]

Guess what .... IS THIS IT ? ... but it is a KIT !

Guess what showed up 15 minutes ago ....

.... a kit slimline click pen .... almost identical to the concept I have been working on except for the fact that it uses what appears to be a Cross refill, or very similar.

Here is the actual pen kit advertised in the thread I saw:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...898.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.b5a33ed5ArLace

and here is the thread in which it appeared:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f50/fountain-pen-kit-all-metal-153518/#post1973539

 

[Dieseldoc]

Guess what showed up 15 minutes ago ....

.... a kit slimline click pen .... almost identical to the concept I have been working on except for the fact that it uses what appears to be a Cross refill, or very similar.

Here is the actual pen kit advertised in the thread I saw:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...898.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.b5a33ed5ArLace

and here is the thread in which it appeared:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f50/fountain-pen-kit-all-metal-153518/#post1973539

Mal:
At that price need to order dozen or so as I 'm sure they be out of stock sooooooom.

 

[magpens]

Charlie, thanks for replyin.

Actually, they only sell in minimum quantites of 50.

Besides, I do not like them.

I only mentioned them because they are somewhat similar to a concept I am working on, but I am not interested in pursuing my concept beyond a working prototype.

I do not like slimlines in general ... this is purely a proof-of-concept for me.

 

[Roger Schlenz]

Schmidt also makes a Cross-style refill

For a Slimline-style pen, Schmidt already makes a Cross-style refill, the C 600 M, under the Private Reserve brand name.
I make mostly Slimlines, and use the Schmidt refill to replace the refill that comes with the kits.