Hippie3180
Member
I gave a question, is it standard protocol to polish internals of handcrafted fountain pens if they are not a demonstrator? Maybe I'm missing something here.
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What is the standard?
- Thread starter Hippie3180
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I am not.
If I were selling my pens, I would have to question if my customers would be willing to pay extra for my time to polish those surfaces they can't see. I would think not.
Curious why you ask, did a customer make a comment about it?
If I were selling my pens, I would have to question if my customers would be willing to pay extra for my time to polish those surfaces they can't see. I would think not.
Curious why you ask, did a customer make a comment about it?
Hippie3180
Member
Actually, I had a customer tell me all pens are polished internally. There was a whole fiasco that I won't go into, but yep.
I've never polished the inside because I assumed they weren't based on the waste of time and effort that would be + not cost effective, but then apart of me wondered "do folks polish the inside?"
Also,you can't really see to polish internally if it's not a demonstrator.
Since this question came up for me I asked a mentor of mine that's been making/selling for eight years if he polishes inside and he said "heck no" he's sold hundreds I would guess and he said "no one's ever complained." So I feel confident it's all good. This person was kind of sketchy anyway.
Thanks for sharing. Sorry you had one of "those" customers to deal with.Actually, I had a customer tell me all pens are polished internally. There was a whole fiasco that I won't go into, but yep.
I've never polished the inside because I assumed they weren't based on the waste of time and effort that would be + not cost effective, but then apart of me wondered "do folks polish the inside?"
Also,you can't really see to polish internally if it's not a demonstrator.
Since this question came up for me I asked a mentor of mine that's been making/selling for eight years if he polishes inside and he said "heck no" he's sold hundreds I would guess and he said "no one's ever complained." So I feel confident it's all good. This person was kind of sketchy anyway.
Drewby108
Member
If I were doing them, I would say maybe do the very first part where it is visible when disassembled, but anything more than that quarter inch would be a waste of time. And I'd only do that on the ones that are going to be considerably more expensive than the rest.
leehljp
Member Liaison
This is a great example when "good enough" may not be. Everyone has to create and finish to their own standards, but if they are selling to the public, one must know their clientele and create with that expectation. I do not sell but enjoy the pleasure of creating and fussing with every detail in fit and finish. Knowing that someone might be looking inside, (I don't do fountain pens, yet,) I would have the tendency to spend the time with polishing at least a 1/4 inch inside, if not more.
From information gathered over the years in the history of pens sold by pen turners here (especially fountain pens), the high end buyers look pens over to the finest details of fit and finish. There is no end to which they will go in observation. If High End is where one wishes to sell, then preparation for that where one should focus.
From information gathered over the years in the history of pens sold by pen turners here (especially fountain pens), the high end buyers look pens over to the finest details of fit and finish. There is no end to which they will go in observation. If High End is where one wishes to sell, then preparation for that where one should focus.
MRDucks2
Member
I don't make them, yet, but understand from others that when dealing with fountain pens you do have some likelihood of running across a "true connoisseur" or fountain pen snob who will go to great lengths to find issues with your work and/or test your knowledge of fountain pens.
Most of us will never meet their expectations. But, for those that do you may end up with a long term customer, the sale of that $800 pen or, possibly, just some jerk who will at least leave you a line in the future.
Most of us will never meet their expectations. But, for those that do you may end up with a long term customer, the sale of that $800 pen or, possibly, just some jerk who will at least leave you a line in the future.
darrin1200
Member
There really isn't a protocol for internal polishing. But there are times it should be considered.
A see through demonstrator is the obvious one. Although, a matte finish inside can look good as well. It still needs sanding either way.
Another consideration is if your pen is, or will be, used as an eyedropper. A smooth interior (or at least removing large scratches) will aid in cleaning between ink changes.
There really is no hard and fast rule. And while pretty well every maker I know, will interior polish at some point, nobody likes doing it. LOL
NJturner
Member
Since we have this thread going - I don't polish the inside of my pens, but I do check the inside for debris or leftover particles from turning that may be in there and often run a swab down the tube or occasionally dunk the unassembled pen in an ultrasonic cleaner. I am now working on a few demonstrator pens where the inside needs to be polished and I am curios what folks use to get this done. Right now, I have been using a split dowel with some sandpaper on it chucked into a hand drill followed by a long wooden sticked cotton swab with a plastic polish also chucked into the drill and it seems to be working OK, but it takes a good long time. What might others be using?
duncsuss
Member
Basically this. If I have the pen barrel in a chuck, I'll hand-hold the dowel and let the lathe provide the spin - it's less tiring than holding a drill for any length of time.
Hippie3180
Member
These are more in the $175.00 range, not thousand dollar pens, and while it is common for folks to do a bit on the inside of the section, I believe that most do not polish the body internals. The first little bit within the body are threads anyway.I don't make them, yet, but understand from others that when dealing with fountain pens you do have some likelihood of running across a "true connoisseur" or fountain pen snob who will go to great lengths to find issues with your work and/or test your knowledge of fountain pens.
Most of us will never meet their expectations. But, for those that do you may end up with a long term customer, the sale of that $800 pen or, possibly, just some jerk who will at least leave you a line in the future.
duncsuss
Member
This is my philosophy too. Eyedroppers, vacuum fill, piston fill - any time the ink will be in contact with the inside of the barrel rather than inside a cartridge or converter that keeps it out of contact with the material of the pen.
At least vacuum and piston fill mechanisms require both ends of the barrel to be open, which is very slightly easier than a closed-end barrel.
Hippie3180
Member
I do get what you're saying, but honestly the time one would spend doing that on each opaque pen would genuinely run the pricing up. Consider that I'm not pricing them at $600 or $800 dollars.
Hippie3180
Member
We always do this and most often everything goes into ultra sonic as well, so they are very clean inside.
I have a pen I've been using for many months, Alumilite, it looks smooth and clean inside with nary a polish.
Hippie3180
Member
This seems feasible, it's just not cost effective to polish the inside of an opaque pen when the going rate for a simple pen, no rings, finial, or clip is $175.00. There would be no profit there.
Hippie3180
Member
I would agree, but these are straight forward Alumilite or wood with ebonite, holding a converter pens. I think you would be absolutely right if they were eyedroppers etc.
Hippie3180
Member
Hippie3180
Member
Yep, "those customers" happen I guess.
Hippie3180
Member
I put a split dowel into a collet and use papers, then zonas. I hold the pen.
duncsuss
Member
No need for the word "but" - we are in complete agreement. I don't polish the innards of a cartridge/converter or sac pen unless the barrel is translucent.
Hippie3180
Member
Gotcha. Same.
darrin1200
Member
PatrickR
Member
You seem to have gotten a consensus and I agree with it. As to the client, I would take the pen back and not sell to them again.
Something that helped me a lot was going to a pen show to see first hand what others were producing. Pictures aren't enough to know how your work compares to the competition.
Something that helped me a lot was going to a pen show to see first hand what others were producing. Pictures aren't enough to know how your work compares to the competition.
RunnerVince
Member
So many times "that customer" doesn't know what they're talking about and is just trying to weasel a discount out of you. And obviously you shouldn't change your practices based on that kind of person.
If you've got an actual connoisseur and you're looking to break into a higher-end market, then I'd consider changes, but if you're not marketing to the ultra-high-end crowd, don't do the ultra-high-end work. If you're selling Fords, don't put in Ferrari work.
Todd in PA
Member
It's hard enough to get the oustide looking sharp. I can't imagine the innards. It does seem like really high end pens use a lot of semi-transparent materials where maybe interior polishing affects the outward appearance.
I'd gladly offer to make him a pen with a polished interior, but it wouldn't be for $175. Honestly, we've seen your pens, Michelle, and $175 is not enough. You do good work.
People tell my my pens are underpriced too, so I get it. It's tough being new and I want to get sales and put my name out there. It's deflating to sit at a show and not ring the register.
I'd gladly offer to make him a pen with a polished interior, but it wouldn't be for $175. Honestly, we've seen your pens, Michelle, and $175 is not enough. You do good work.
People tell my my pens are underpriced too, so I get it. It's tough being new and I want to get sales and put my name out there. It's deflating to sit at a show and not ring the register.
Hippie3180
Member
I know the effort it takes to do internal polishing on a transparent blank, it's time consuming and frustrating as well.
Also, one really can't tell what one is doing inside an opaque blankā¦seems senseless to me.
Thank you Todd, it was explained to me that was the "going rate" for the basic fountain pen. We do get more for wood with sleeves and our florals ($225.) In August we'll have been making fountains for a year and we might edge them up just a wee bit.
Hippie3180
Member
This was a whole fiasco, and the first one I've had to deal with, and now I know how to handle this in a more informed way.
PatrickR
Member
Have you done time studies?
I find them invaluable. I see three piece pens going for far less than I would be willing to go. I would be hesitant to just use a "going rate"
Hippie3180
Member
I haven't really yet, but have plans to very soon. Ive been off of turning for a few days (the hazards of sharing a lathe) but as soon as i get back in and feel in the zone again I will be running the times over a few to get an average.