What is the priority?

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ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
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http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/owning-up-120138/

This thread exposes the true identity of TheoOMichael.

The first time this "member" bid, there was a concern expressed by Smitty. I was also concerned. Could this indeed be a new member or is it some kind of ruse.

I contacted Jeff Brown, who took the matter VERY seriously. As it happens, simultaneously, there was an irregularity with the crossword puzzle that Curtis had already detected and was compiling evidence. Many hours were spent in conversation by email and by phone among the three of us and MikeBroberg, the activities chair.

I am telling you this because the "takeaway" for me was: There could not be a group of men who spent more time trying to find a way to believe an incredible story rather than accepting the fact a young man had lied to us.

The over-riding factor in the deliberations was ALWAYS how to be fair to a member, while still protecting the interests of the IAP community. AND the primary concern about the auctions was never "how much will we raise", it was "how can we repair any damage done to our members".

Since there IS NO TheoOMichael, we have decided to delete him and the ramifications of his bidding from our auctions. Jeff allowed me to make the decision on how this should be handled and then agreed with my proposed solution which is this:

We will close the remaining auctions in which Theo bid. We will restart those auctions in a couple days--after the others are complete.

Thank you for following and, in some cases, bidding on these IAP auctions. Let me assure you the IAP management makes every effort to sniff out crime and corruption and keep our BASH clean fun!!!!

Thanks for reading,
Ed
 
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MesquiteMan

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I'm still confused about what he did with auctions... Was he bidding against himself?

Yes, with the intention of the fake name winning with a super high bid, then disappearing and not paying up. Then, his real name would be the second highest bidder and he figured it would fall back to him.

At least this is what his "Owning Up" post indicated.
 

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
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He has not told us his exact plan, but I suspect the scenario goes like this:

Wood11 bids $50
Theo bids $200, which stands until the end of the auction. Then, Theo disappears and we award to the next bidder---Wood11.

Please do NOT discuss this plan on the forum. It has flaws, but let's not make it easier for the next guy to devise a BETTER plan.

Wooden--11 got caught because he made mistakes that the management could prove. I do not want to go into detail to make the next guy more difficult to catch. If you want to PM me, I will try to reply---but in fairness to Jeff and Curtis, my replies will be vague.


Curtis posted as I was typing-----at least we both SAID the same thing!!
 
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Joe S.

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Sorry, I didn't think about "the next guy". Thanks for the replys though. Sad thing that this even happened.
 

stonepecker

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Trust in the IAP is probally the most important thing we as member have to have.

To Jeff, Curtis, Mike, and Ed..........I hope I speak for a lot of the members when I say "We trust you to do the right thing." There is no way to stop all the little crappers that can invade our world. You guys are Class A .......Nobody could do better.

Thank you and everyone who is involved in putting on the BASH for doing such a wonderful job.
 

mark james

IAP Collection, Curator
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Trust in the IAP is probally the most important thing we as member have to have.

To Jeff, Curtis, Mike, and Ed..........I hope I speak for a lot of the members when I say "We trust you to do the right thing." There is no way to stop all the little crappers that can invade our world. You guys are Class A .......Nobody could do better.

Thank you and everyone who is involved in putting on the BASH for doing such a wonderful job.

I agree with the above!

But we have an ace in our pocket... we have Maxwell Smart... At least as a kid I thought he was cool... :):biggrin::bananen_smilies051::bananen_smilies047::banana:
 

Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
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My suspicions were aroused because it looked like someone had joined IAP simply to bid on IAP mugs....much as I like IAP that seemed a little far fetched.
 

eranox

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I'm sure this has already occurred to the event staff, but it seems like this problem could be circumvented by simply relisting any auction in which there is a non-paying winner. At the least, the item could be offered to the runner-up at the winning price, and if declined, the auction could be relisted starting with the second place bid. This would ensure that the item didn't go for a lower amount the second time around.
 

ed4copies

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I'm sure this has already occurred to the event staff, but it seems like this problem could be circumvented by simply relisting any auction in which there is a non-paying winner. At the least, the item could be offered to the runner-up at the winning price, and if declined, the auction could be relisted starting with the second place bid. This would ensure that the item didn't go for a lower amount the second time around.

Hi Dave!

Yes, that did occur to me and it is the "path of least resistance" causing us the least additional work and yielding the most certain high return. SO, WHY didn't I do that??

Some of the guys bidding have a budget. The same group is kind enough to follow me around and bid on all sorts of things, just to keep the "action" going. Once they have not won a bid, someone else has, they consider the money once again available---auction's over---money is in my pocket, someone else owes. On to the next auction.

So, if I suddenly come back and say I want to collect on their second place bid, it could mean they have to spend MORE than the budget they allocated. If we start over, they may or may not bid---but I know they will still be in their "comfort zone". Yes, I represent the IAP and want to bring in funds----but Jeff concurs that it is more important to keep our members comfortable than it is to pull in dough!! This is one of the many reasons I really enjoy working with IAP.

The bidders are my friends----I want to keep them as friends first, IAP donors second. I am fortunate that management backs me.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

mdl7070

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Jusr my .02 cents. Only open the auctions up to member
That have a certain number of posts and have been
Members a certain amount of time
 

edman2

Local Chapter Leader
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Greenbrier, AR. USA.
Jusr my .02 cents. Only open the auctions up to member
That have a certain number of posts and have been
Members a certain amount of time


This IS one of the options that will be discussed. Thank you!!

On the other hand, we would not want to do anything to limit participation by new members. That's how they get hooked! :eek:) Limits perhaps but very low limits so those new folks that want to participate can do so.
 

Gofer

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First thing ... hats off to the Management team ... its a hard and (sometimes) thankless job they do very well for us all.

Second, they have handles this whole situation extremely well from all I have seen and am happy to see the entire IAP family not rushing to judge or worse.

The only question I have is: What auctions do I have a second shot at Ed?
 

Bob Wemm

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First thing ... hats off to the Management team ... its a hard and (sometimes) thankless job they do very well for us all.

Second, they have handles this whole situation extremely well from all I have seen and am happy to see the entire IAP family not rushing to judge or worse.

The only question I have is: What auctions do I have a second shot at Ed?

I agree totally,
if the member is other than mentioned in post#4 then I think that they should be CLEARLY NAMED and Shamed.
This is a wonderful place and there is no room for cheats.

Bob.:mad:
 

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
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Messages
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Location
Racine, WI, USA.
First thing ... hats off to the Management team ... its a hard and (sometimes) thankless job they do very well for us all.

Second, they have handles this whole situation extremely well from all I have seen and am happy to see the entire IAP family not rushing to judge or worse.

The only question I have is: What auctions do I have a second shot at Ed?


Thanks for asking!!!

Today has been a bit of a downer----I sorely wanted to see the young man explain. Instead I have discovered he was still "hiding" stuff. It's a shame and it killed my enthusiasm for the day. Tomorrow I WILL be back to normal---cheerleading. AND we will "unhide" all the great auctions that remain. I'll set up a schedule which will give you all time to decide what you want to bid on and enjoy a fair and fun event.

Consider the last two days a "short intermission"!!

I'll be back to normal.
 

Tom T

Member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Messages
1,883
Location
Sanford Florida
Ed,
You guys and gals are doing a great job.

Did I miss any other John U auction blanks? Not that I would bid or anything, the ones I got today are fantastic. It's a crazy world but my wife wants me to make pens out of them using the picked at random pen kit I won today. That will make it almost a $1,000 pen.
It is great she thinks I can do it. Makes a man feel good.
 

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
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Yes there is another JohnU blank----but John has asked me to assure the bidders he has NEVER sent out one blank, without adding a little to the box to make it "worth shipping"!!
 

eranox

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
322
Location
Killeen, TX
I'm sure this has already occurred to the event staff, but it seems like this problem could be circumvented by simply relisting any auction in which there is a non-paying winner. At the least, the item could be offered to the runner-up at the winning price, and if declined, the auction could be relisted starting with the second place bid. This would ensure that the item didn't go for a lower amount the second time around.

Hi Dave!

Yes, that did occur to me and it is the "path of least resistance" causing us the least additional work and yielding the most certain high return. SO, WHY didn't I do that??

Some of the guys bidding have a budget. The same group is kind enough to follow me around and bid on all sorts of things, just to keep the "action" going. Once they have not won a bid, someone else has, they consider the money once again available---auction's over---money is in my pocket, someone else owes. On to the next auction.

So, if I suddenly come back and say I want to collect on their second place bid, it could mean they have to spend MORE than the budget they allocated. If we start over, they may or may not bid---but I know they will still be in their "comfort zone". Yes, I represent the IAP and want to bring in funds----but Jeff concurs that it is more important to keep our members comfortable than it is to pull in dough!! This is one of the many reasons I really enjoy working with IAP.

The bidders are my friends----I want to keep them as friends first, IAP donors second. I am fortunate that management backs me.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yeah, I see your point. Perhaps the above plan would be workable if the item was relisted with the starting price set by the runner-up's bid, but he/she wasn't specifically on the hook if no bids were made at/above that price. Probably much simpler to relist it outrightlike you said, though. This is hard! You management guys are much better at this than I am. :tongue:
 

Mike Powell

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I would like to say thank you to our leadership. I have been a moderator and leader on another site a while back ago, and it is difficult to decide what must and what must not be done to keep the community happy. I feel that the punishment fit the crime.

Great Job Guys and thanks for keeping the rest of us in mind.
 

toddlajoie

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Feeding Hills MA
Just one more SMALL insight into everything that the management team does behind the scenes that nobody knows about. Things I would not even think people would try. I know what it takes to look around at things posted online and try to read between the lines in patters of posts and such, and I can't imagine adding that work on top of all the other work being done by Jeff, Ed, and Curtis...
 

Jim Burr

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One semi bad apple shouldn't cause dramatic change. The powers that be were able to ferret out the issue in amazing fashion. If it's that important for a individual to win, we can take up a collection. JMHO.
 

stonepecker

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Messages
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central Minnesota
Change is the future.......it has to come with the times.
Back in the 60's, we never locked the house. The keys were always in the car or truck.
In the 70's I learned not to trust people in charge. We caught our DI going through our footlockers. He was removed to the hospital when he fell down the stairs a number of times. (over a dozen....the last few he wasn't as hard to carry backup. He wasn't fighting with us)
In the 80's I tried to trust again. The Ex didn't break me but bent me very hard.

The last 20+ years I have seen way to many things, to be blind to the present. I knew I couldn't change others. So I decided to be open without being foolish. My rule of today, You only cheat me once.

I am so happy that the IAP has the high standards it has. Jeff and all the people around him have my complete trust and backing. As far as I am concerned.....
WHAT THEY SAY, THAT IS THE WAY IT IS!
 
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Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
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One semi bad apple shouldn't cause dramatic change. The powers that be were able to ferret out the issue in amazing fashion. If it's that important for a individual to win, we can take up a collection. JMHO.
I don't think of this as being that important to win as being "able to get away with something" when I was a kid (and this is one of the things that doesn't seem to have changed) pulling off something like this would be so I could brag to my friends "I did .... and got away with it, fooled them all." .
 
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