What is political??

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MesquiteMan

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
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Recently, as moderators, we have locked a couple of different threads that we determined to be political after discussion in the moderator's forum. Naturally, this made a few people mad but it also made a few people happy. Both of the recent threads could be argued that they were not political DISCUSSIONS since they were jokes and non-partisan.

My question is, where should we draw the line on political threads/posts? What would you guys like to see? The AUP states:

Discussions of politics and religion are not allowed.
Click to expand...

I would like you feedback on these questions.

  • What constitutes a political DISCUSSION?
  • Does it need to be partisan to be considered political?
  • Are jokes and comments about any country's government considered political discussion even if they are not partisan?
  • Are statements/commentary about a country's government considered political?
I really do not know where to draw the line. I know what we have done in the past and I have my opinions which I will not share at this time so I don't taint the feedback. I also know that we have lost at least one very long time contributor who I have had direct conversations with who stopped participating due to some political jokes.

Please, let's keep this on topic and have a good discussion. Please just state your opinion and do not debate another's opinion in this thread. My only objective with this post is to get feedback so we can better serve our fellow IAP member. Thank you!

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator
 
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Heck your post is going to get deleted Curtis-----we have new super mods.
Oh in case you haven't heard you lost several members today.
 
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I learned long ago Politics & Religion will cause more disagreements than anything else talked about so I do not join in them when there are family get togethers I have some relatives who can be total eggheads so I move on to more interesting subjects.
To myself political discussions should be on a political discusion board and not where friends get together to talk about what we created, did or destroyed that day lol. Politics will offend more times than not but I do see the uniqueness of this post Curtis. I hope it becomes constructive and genuine.
Jerry
 
I think it all depends on how specific it gets . a generalization or commentary on government waste or ineptitude is ok but an attack or commentary on a specific person or policy is not .
 
Gary Max said:
Oh in case you haven't heard you lost several members today.
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Gary I have not lost any member. WE (as in you and me and every other member of IAP) may have lost friends whow we call members but I have not. I am not IAP, I am just part of the management that is trying to make this place as good for as many members as possible.
 
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Boy I hope you feel better after using those big letters--I was impressed-- I just thought it was inportant that everyone knows what's going on.
 
Curtis I think one difference might be the difference between a discussion and a comment, a discussion will have members joining in with their opinions, But a comment may be a completely different animal. such as Please don't take this as either a but some one commenting on President Obama's dancing with the kids in India, would seem to be acceptable provided it didn't get ugly.
I honestly don't think jokes or satire are really political discussions.
I don't know whether being political requires a partisan stance, but we should be allowed to poke fun at some of these people not the parties, just some of the people.
And I do think that "Statements" about a country's Government have to be considered political discussion as soon as a second party joins into the post, then it's become a political discussion!
but I think there should be some satirical comments allowed as long as they aren't overtly offensive, after all that's what we have a government for, cause some times we just need a good laugh.
 
The first question I have is. Is a single post, the one that starts the thread defined as starting a discussion? If it is, then according to the AUP its forebidden. Although such posts rarely offend me I dont see the need for them. We have plenty of humor posted without going to to politics of any sort.

Mike
 
I think talking about politics is political. Whether it be Republican or Democrat. Be it about a certain senator, president or house member. Political is political.
 
Well Gary, it looks like we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Some poeple griped and moaned that I was not doing enough and I needed help. I listened and now have 2 extra moderators. Every decision that is made is thoroughly discussed in the mod forum as was suggested by you, even. Now that i have help, and less stuff is getting through the cracks, some folks aren't happy. It really gets old. We are trying to listen and ask for feedback. That is the entire point of this thread. It seems that with you, nothing I do is ever right.
 
Hi all;

I'm new here, since mid year. I certainly don't have a dog in this fight. Truth is, almost anything said, (or typed), is potentially going to offend someone. The way its going soon the mods will need to review every topic before it is published to determine if its offencive or not.

Sad state of affairs IMHO.

I'll just go back to being a lurker:frown:.

Carl
 
In terms of religion and politics, err on the side of over-moderating. The damage done in the past should not be repeated. Religion and politics are specifically banned topics. As for humor or satire, it's funny unless it is your perspective being satirized.
 
Gary Max said:
Some folks just got tired of the new way things are being done here.
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Therein lies the problem.

A thread is moderated and people react. So have I, in the past. Probably will in the future.

It's a balancing act. Long ago, a person I considered a valued member said there was too much politics. I really did'nt see it---but bothered him--he left.

We all need to weigh the friendships against the "humility". Being "moderated" implies you did something "wrong" in the eyes of the community and it was purged. (I'd like to use a common phrase, but it may be against the terms, so we will settle for---"irritated") Irritated me when I was the target, long ago.

So, we have to accept, "Can't please ALL the people..... maybe ANY of the time".

I continue to believe you are never HURT by what is said, unless you allow it to HURT you. But, we live in the age of the "perpetually offended".

So, we should probably moderate to the lowest common denominator. We allow 13 year olds to view the site. While they hear much worse language at school, we set a lousy example if they see it here. So, keep politics completely out. Keep religion completely out. Moderate all commerce so no one gets offended.

Make sure to wash your hands, before you type, so no one sees dirty words!!!

Sorry, Curtis----YOU and the other mods can't please ALL the people.

But, the more sanitized it gets, the more politically correct we will be---and the less opinionated and interesting. But, that is the world we live in.

"Resistance is futile" Assimilate!!!!
 
Chip,

When you delete a post, you are telling the writer he was "wrong". Grown men typically don't react well to that. Some worse than others.

So, to delete is to become supreme.

And, likely to remove members.

Rules is rules. Human nature is human nature. After you lead teams long enough you learn to be more aware of the "employees" you want to keep, and to treat them gently---egos can be fragile.
 
I have no problem with it as long as the views are conservative! Lol. J/k

I personally think that this forum and it's members remains an enjoyable place to visit because of the lack of political discussion!

So I propose a jokes section where anything goes! I am sure all of us on here enjoy a good laugh and will post jokes tastefully. If someone takes offense, tell us an we will remove it.

Any thoughts?
 
ed4copies said:
Chip,

When you delete a post, you are telling the writer he was "wrong". Grown men typically don't react well to that. Some worse than others.

So, to delete is to become supreme.

And, likely to remove members.

Rules is rules. Human nature is human nature. After you lead teams long enough you learn to be more aware of the "employees" you want to keep, and to treat them gently---egos can be fragile.
Click to expand...

How true. That's why I'm glad I'm not a moderator.
 
The "current me" would prefer to stay clear of most topics like this but this thread has started a burning in the "former me" that I need to get out before I have a relapse of sort. One of the complaints I see certain people express is how threads need to stay focused on the original post. Now in this thread I have seen several of the "complainers" do exactly what they are complaining about. No names were mentioned and no specifics were pointed out so............. If the shoe fits, WEAR IT. If not, THROW IT OUT. Ok, that is out of my system. To answer the original post, I think it needs to be zero tolorence as a simple joke, comment, or reference to something deemed funny by one is sure to offend another. My opinion, others will most certainly vary.
 
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I see very few political pens -- and fewer posted. If we stay on topic a bit better we can avoid the flames and hard feelings.

Lets get the commentary back to pen making materials, processes, techniques, and use. Any political commentary engraved on a pen might be appropriate if shown on the posted photo of the pen.
 
ed4copies said:
Gary Max said:
Some folks just got tired of the new way things are being done here.
Click to expand...


Therein lies the problem.

A thread is moderated and people react. So have I, in the past. Probably will in the future.

It's a balancing act. Long ago, a person I considered a valued member said there was too much politics. I really did'nt see it---but bothered him--he left.

We all need to weigh the friendships against the "humility". Being "moderated" implies you did something "wrong" in the eyes of the community and it was purged. (I'd like to use a common phrase, but it may be against the terms, so we will settle for---"irritated") Irritated me when I was the target, long ago.

So, we have to accept, "Can't please ALL the people..... maybe ANY of the time".

I continue to believe you are never HURT by what is said, unless you allow it to HURT you. But, we live in the age of the "perpetually offended".

So, we should probably moderate to the lowest common denominator. We allow 13 year olds to view the site. While they hear much worse language at school, we set a lousy example if they see it here. So, keep politics completely out. Keep religion completely out. Moderate all commerce so no one gets offended.

Make sure to wash your hands, before you type, so no one sees dirty words!!!

Sorry, Curtis----YOU and the other mods can't please ALL the people.

But, the more sanitized it gets, the more politically correct we will be---and the less opinionated and interesting. But, that is the world we live in.

"Resistance is futile" Assimilate!!!!
Click to expand...

Nice Star Trek reference Ed :cool:
 
You know, I still consider myself only a visitor to IAP, but I do add things occasionally. My last two thread-starts got deleted though. One dealt with a cartoon that appeared on the front page of the Sunday comics and dealt with school prayer. The other dealt with how senior citizens are treated worse than prisoners. Pertaining to the first, I'm a school teacher who sees where prayer could only help things. As for the 2nd, my family owns a nursing home and I have a 93 year old mother. How anyone can be offended by these posts is beyond me, but... oh well. I don't get mad, I certainly respect others' opinions and I still come back for ideas.
There are some comments that I just shake my head at and move on. There are some I simply laugh at, not because they are funny, but because I can't believe what I am reading. And yes, I do look for certain people who I know are eventually going to write something stupid.
Isn't that what we are all about? People, you need to relax. Sit back and just imagine how things are for those with less than us. There is so much junk going on in this world and we give so much attention to faceless people. My bet is that so much of the discussion on these forums would never come out if we all were in the same room.
Many of us have asked for prayers... I will still do my very best to answer and honor that request. Many of us are seniors. I bet we have more in common with each other than anyone knows. Do we really have the time to complain? Not me.
 
MesquiteMan said:
Recently, as moderators, we have locked a couple of different threads that we determined to be political after discussion in the moderator's forum. Naturally, this made a few people mad but it also made a few people happy. You'll have that. Abe Licoln had a similar quote. Both of the recent threads could be argued that they were not political DISCUSSIONS since they were jokes and non-partisan.

My question is, where should we draw the line on political threads/posts? What would you guys like to see? The AUP states:

Discussions of politics and religion are not allowed.
Click to expand...

I would like you feedback on these questions.

  • What constitutes a political DISCUSSION?
    A conversation or debate between 2 or more parties, involving politics.
    Broad spectrum there..better have a guide book!
  • Does it need to be partisan to be considered political?
    I'm not googling "partisan".:biggrin:
  • Are jokes and comments about any country's government considered political discussion even if they are not partisan?
    I think it is in poor taste, since we are "International". period.
  • Are statements/commentary about a country's government considered political?
    Government IS politics, or at least they are intertwined to be as indiscernable, one from another, for the layman.
I really do not know where to draw the line. GOOD LUCK! It's all "touchy-feely" anymore. I know what we have done in the past and I have my opinions which I will not share at this time so I don't taint the feedback. I also know that we have lost at least one very long time contributor who I have had direct conversations with who stopped participating due to some political jokes.

Please, let's keep this on topic and have a good discussion. Please just state your opinion and do not debate another's opinion in this thread. My only objective with this post is to get feedback so we can better serve our fellow IAP member. Thank you!

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator
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I wish you the best of luck in your quest. At the end of this discussion, you may wander off and get blind drunk. It is your only sane recourse.:smile:

John
â™ 
 
hunter-27 said:
The "current me" would prefer to stay clear of most topics like this but this thread has started a burning in the "former me" that I need to get out before I have a relapse of sort. One of the complaints I see certain people express is how threads need to stay focused on the original post. Now in this thread I have seen several of the "complainers" do exactly what they are complaining about. No names were mention and no specifics were pointed out so............. If the shoe fits, WEAR IT. If not, THROW IT OUT. Ok, that is out of my system. To answer the original post, I think it needs to be zero tolorence as a simple joke, comment, or reference to something deemed funny by one is sure to offend another. My opinion, others will most certainly vary.
Click to expand...

Spot on.
 
jimm1 said:
You know, I still consider myself only a visitor to IAP, but I do add things occasionally. My last two thread-starts got deleted though. One dealt with a cartoon that appeared on the front page of the Sunday comics and dealt with school prayer. The other dealt with how senior citizens are treated worse than prisoners. Pertaining to the first, I'm a school teacher who sees where prayer could only help things. As for the 2nd, my family owns a nursing home and I have a 93 year old mother. How anyone can be offended by these posts is beyond me, but... oh well. I don't get mad, I certainly respect others' opinions and I still come back for ideas.
Click to expand...

Jim,
I just want to clarify one thing here.. You're 2nd thread was not deleted, just locked. Its still there, go ahead an look if you want.

Secondly, it surprises me that you can't see how anyone could be offended by it. You own a nursing home, and wouldn't be offended if you were told that you are treating people under your care poorly? If not, I'm glad you are able to take that in stride, but not all can.

Dean Charlier
Assistant Moderator
 
MesquiteMan said:
Recently, as moderators, we have locked a couple of different threads that we determined to be political after discussion in the moderator's forum. Naturally, this made a few people mad but it also made a few people happy. Both of the recent threads could be argued that they were not political DISCUSSIONS since they were jokes and non-partisan.

My question is, where should we draw the line on political threads/posts? What would you guys like to see? The AUP states:

Discussions of politics and religion are not allowed.
Click to expand...
I would like you feedback on these questions.

  • What constitutes a political DISCUSSION?
  • Does it need to be partisan to be considered political?
  • Are jokes and comments about any country's government considered political discussion even if they are not partisan?
  • Are statements/commentary about a country's government considered political?
I really do not know where to draw the line. I know what we have done in the past and I have my opinions which I will not share at this time so I don't taint the feedback. I also know that we have lost at least one very long time contributor who I have had direct conversations with who stopped participating due to some political jokes.

Please, let's keep this on topic and have a good discussion. Please just state your opinion and do not debate another's opinion in this thread. My only objective with this post is to get feedback so we can better serve our fellow IAP member. Thank you!

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator
Click to expand...

Political or non political, if a persons skin is so thin they can not distinguish a bit of humor from a harassing confrontation, they should not get close to a lathe. They may get a piece of a splinter in their little body. My feeling is let it all hang out. Follow the guidelines but forget about if someone does not agree with how you follow the guidelines. Of course, i'm one who took a sons name off my email list because he got snotty with me about my email to him! I'm not going to be offended by any jokes about either party, even though I'm proud to announce I am Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr right wing! Take it or leave it!!! Curtis, I'm not a bad guy but after 29 years of law enforcement, this crap gets to me!
 
Curtis, I'm not a bad guy but after 29 years of law enforcement, this crap gets to me!

Gee, I wonder how you got to be "right-wing"???

Thank you for your service!!!
 
alphageek said:
jimm1 said:
You know, I still consider myself only a visitor to IAP, but I do add things occasionally. My last two thread-starts got deleted though. One dealt with a cartoon that appeared on the front page of the Sunday comics and dealt with school prayer. The other dealt with how senior citizens are treated worse than prisoners. Pertaining to the first, I'm a school teacher who sees where prayer could only help things. As for the 2nd, my family owns a nursing home and I have a 93 year old mother. How anyone can be offended by these posts is beyond me, but... oh well. I don't get mad, I certainly respect others' opinions and I still come back for ideas.
Click to expand...

Jim,
I just want to clarify one thing here.. You're 2nd thread was not deleted, just locked. Its still there, go ahead an look if you want.

Secondly, it surprises me that you can't see how anyone could be offended by it. You own a nursing home, and wouldn't be offended if you were told that you are treating people under your care poorly? If not, I'm glad you are able to take that in stride, but not all can.

Dean Charlier
Assistant Moderator
Click to expand...

Okay, my turn...As a moderator, I would think a little more out of you. I mentioned that my family owns one, not me. But I'll tell you this... I challenge anyone to match what we do with our residents. There is a wait list a mile long. Dignity for all, no matter what age. That's how should be. I'll admit, I have seen absolutely sickening places for our most experience seniors. That's what gets me. We see what many do, and we go the other way.
See that side Dean.
 
Whenever a discussions turns partisan it can turn ugly. When we venture into that territory it's fruitless for all involved. I can think of nothing more partisan than different relgious and political ideologies. I say ban them completely right down to members signature lines and slogans. Eliminate the Casual Conversation forum, keep everyone on point and let's make some pens!
 
aggromere said:
Whenever a discussions turns partisan it can turn ugly. When we venture into that territory it's fruitless for all involved. I can think of nothing more partisan than different relgious and political ideologies. I say ban them completely right down to members signature lines and slogans. Eliminate the Casual Conversation forum, keep everyone on point and let's make some pens!
Click to expand...


PERFECT POST
 
Political is politics

The problem is that there are a lot of fuzzy areas.
We should avoid stating positions for or against aby particular office seeker or political party.

We should not give our opinion about particular office holders, pro or con.

But, that being said, there are things that are considered by Congress that affect us both as individuals and as business folks.

For instance, there is under consideration introducing legislation that would force all internet sellers to collect sales taxes for the buyers state. There are quite a few states that would like that to happen.

42 of the 50 states have sales taxes and they are all different.

If that legislation is introduced should we have to "pass" on discussing it because it is "politics"?

I think before a thread is stopped a common sense look should be taken, a lot of threads if they don't actually provoke intense debate should just be left alone.
 
You guys realize we've had this discussion before and some of the people that complain are the some of the first to support

a) having political or religious references in there signatures
b) having prayer requests

Now I'm not against either of these things, but how do they really fit in with the ban and being moderated.

I'm offended by applying one version of moderation to one area and a different criteria in another. It smacks of ....... I can't think of the appropriate word but it's not consistent.

Now I personally think that anything that refers to a political party (regardless of party) is political. I asked that several posts that mentioned parties be removed from my 'Go Vote" thread for that simple reason. But, if you want to go by the strict definition of the rule, the entire thread should have been removed as its topic was political. Voting is Politics. We were voting for Politicians. Now, to my knowledge, no one was offended by the premise but there you go.

I recall a thread on 9/11 that I commented in and since I mentioned religious groups, specifically to say something along the lines of "don't blame the whole for the actions of a few misguided people in the group". The post was deleted, and while Curtis knew what I was getting at erred on the side of caution. I don't hold that against Curtis, just thought it was sad that it needed to be done. I expect better from those reading it than to twist its meaning. But I guess there are those that will.
 
The moderators here are in a lose-lose situation. There is absolutely no possible way to please everyone. You could ask 100 different people the question "What is political?" and could get 100 different answers. Phrase the question differently and get another 100 different answers.

I feel that the topics posted here should only relate to penturning. If you want to have a political discussion or share something that you consider funny, then post them at a board that relates to politics or humor. We don't all share the same political views, or have the same sense of humor but we DO all share a love of penturning.

Personally, I am not offended by anything short of a personal attack. I understand that there are as many differing opinions on any given subject as there are people. I may not agree with all of them, but we all have a right to have them whether I agree with it or not.
 
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