What dust collection do you use/reccomend?

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Nickfff

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Hello, I am looking to setup a dust collection system in my garage. My main criteria are as follows...quiet, inexpensive, small form factor (small one car garage) for unit as well as limited room for capture unit behind lathe (my bench is not very deep)...

1) Any ideas?

2) Also, I have seen the jet afs 1000b, do you use that in conjuction with a dust collection or as the solo dust collection.

3) Also, what dust masks do you use that do not fog glasses? I have used the "dust be gone" mask but feel I need something with more filtration.

Thanks in advance:),
Nick
 
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&qidI can't really recommend any one specific DC or mask. If "dust be gone" fogs your glasses, then the next step is to figure out what will allow you to work with out fogging. From here I will give you my experience - I moved to a double canister type, something along the lines of this and and this.

My glasses did - still get dirt and sweat on them, so I bought a Triton Respirator. I found out quickly that I cannot use it above 85° as it fogs up. This is new and with new filters. Otherwise the Triton was OK. However, for me</u>, I enjoy pen turning as a hobby and prefer to do one at a time maybe once a week taking my time. In doing this, I work on the pen for ten minutes, stop to let a sealing coat of CA cure for 10 minutes, come back, sand and apply another coat (10 minutes max) go get coffee, come back, work a few minutes. IN THIS case, the Triton and even the good canister masks become a pain to take on and off, on and off repeatedly.

With the allergies that I developed after the second year of making CA finished pens, I needed to find another method. I added a small DC system, posted here;
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33477

And another similar post here:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33633

The DC system helped about 80%. I still got sick on the third pen that I made after installing the DC system, but not nearly as bad as before. I found that the sanding dust that collects around my sleeves and on my hands are culprits too. Now, I will start having hand cleaners near by to clean hands before I wipe my nose or otherwise bring my hand to my face.

I sure hate to give up on using a CA finish. So far, I have spent about $500.00 on masks, DC and respirators in about 15 months to keep this dust problem at bay. I am getting close.
 
Lee we should have a race turning pens,sounds like me, I bet i drink coffee faster then you:)
I use a HF DC, it works very well and it doesn`t cost much,but it is a full size so if space is issue with you it may be to big.. Carl
 
You didn't mention cost but you did mention small form factor and quiet.

Have you looked into the Fein (spelling?) vac systems? I don't personally have one but a friend of mine does and that puppy is quiet, but expensive.

That's all I can add until you give us a budget to work with:D.

Todd
 
Just how much does one "budget" when it comes to your health? I venture to think that a $1000 dust collection system will be far, far cheaper than any of the doctor's bill and that will not include the time wasted on getting well - IF you get well.

I HIGHLY recommend that you put a collection tube right at the source of your dust - I use one directly under the tool at the wood and collect 95% or better of all the shavings, dust etc. I have the hose mounted to the banjo so when I move the tool rest the vacuum moves with it. For pens it is no problem, but to do a bowl I must use a different approach to hold the collection device in place.

I wear glasses like many here do and I have noticed that the lenses are no where as dusty after I started doing this collection process about 15 years or so back. Even the floor is a lot easier to clean up after a full day turning.

I also run the flexible hose a good distance away from me - about 15 - 20 feet or so - as I don't care for the damage that is caused by the continuous high pitched sound from the vacuum cleaner. I use a 4" system AND a shop vacuum with HEPA filter every time I turn on the lathe.

When you get the "room" I recommend that you get some form of canister dust collection system. Also, adding a pre-filter in-line will add years of life to your filters. Emptying the pre-filter is far easier than disassembling the dust collection system just to empty the chips and dust. BTW, the pre-filter will also protect the impellers from damage caused by large chip impact - $$$$ - ... this also adds life to the system.

Look at a canister that collects 0.3 - 0.1 micron dust particles as this is about the size of dust that does damage to the body since it enters deep down into the lungs prior to settling out - cough, cough, cough!

Get a dust collection system that moves a large volume of air, add a pre-collection system, uses 0.5-0.1 micron filtration and go for it. No more canister filters to fog up, no more free floating dust (well, maybe a bit) and live longer. This is an excellent filter add-on; http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4310 JET also has a great micron filter about the same price for their DC units - see Woodcraft for this as well.

IMO one just can't have enough filtration when working with wood dust - especially the likes of Oak, Snakewood, Spalted Anything (yes, many of the spores from the spalting process can and often do survive in the human respiratory system and that can be life threatening, etc., ... search the Forum for articles on sensitized vs allergic reactions to dust. Becoming sensitized is by far the worst of the two. Neither is a good thing.

Look here for pre-collection cans: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4310 ($28.00 VERY well spent and recouped in quick time!) This one MUST be used with a METAL 30 gallon trash can - Home Depot +/- $30.00.

Avoid dust inhalation at ALL COSTS. IF you don't then over time you will develop some really nasty diseases that you just may never recover from. [}:)]

Take every protection you can and enjoy this hobby and life a lot longer ... ;)
 
Dust collection is a must!!! The dust from turning and sanding exotic woods will kill you. I purchased a Power Air Purifying Respirator and I inhale no dust. It has been the best money spent next to the Cyclone Dust Collector.
 
I have a 10 x 12 shop. I bought a delta 50-750 dc I bought a second cartridge filter 35a274blol that fixes on the delta from Wynn Enviromental sales web site is www.wynnenv.com the filter is a .02 micron filter. I then put in a pre-filter to collect the bigger chips . Works good i only collect one machine hook up at a time. The dc is only 6 feet from the lathe


bill daniels [:p]
 
I am not sure that low price and effective go together. you can find plenty of low cost dust collectors that I believe do little more than give you a false since of security. The final test is does it actually work though. if you still have dust collecting on your sleeves and glasses, then it is collecting in your lungs as well.
I spent a very long time looking at dust collectors, understanding how and why one works better than anouther, and just how well one needs to work to get the job done.
first if it does not filter as small as 2 microns you are waisting your money. the dust collector will simply be a fancy way to spread the dust aroudn your shop. second it must be able to not only move a massive amount of air, it must be able to move that air at a fairly fast speed. Third a lathe is one of the narder tools to get the air collected at, meaning the dust collector needs to preform at the upper end of the scale. P.S.I sells some fairly good cyclone collectors that have 6" inlets. sadly then all there ducting is mosly 4". in a nut shell you cannot move the amount of air needed through 4" pipes. it won't fit. there are those that will argue that, And I bet there is fine dust in there shop as well. this DC is approx 6 to 7 hundred dollars, and 6" pvc pipe runs about 48 dollars per 14' length. fittings are simularly costly running around 20 dollars ea. so cheap is not in this part of the conversation. even in a small garage it will hit 1000 dollars pretty quickly. you need 6" pipe from collector to tool. my lathe has 6" pvc run to within 5' of it. 6" flexable hose bridges the gap from pipe to a 6" X 12" rectangular register mounted within 4 to 6 inches of the turning. This is intended to capture the fine dust. larger particles that will not be suspended in the air are not my concern withthis system. I have to sweep my shop anyway and that stuff is relativly easy to clean up. it is the talcum powder stuff that will really harm you. a remote switch or better yet, gates that start the collector when opened go a long way toward it actually being used. Think of the expense as health insurance, my dust collector is the single most expensive piece of equipment in my shop.
 
Nicholas,

This is the one I have been considering:

http://tinyurl.com/25dhv3

The filter bag is 1 micron and you have two options to attach the filter bag and collection bag. Also the motor and collection port can be switched to suit your setup.

I have browsed the reviews and they seem to be pretty favorable.
 
Mark, I coudl nto see any specs on this collector. It did make me think about some min for a collector though. without diggin out my notes my memorytells me to look for a 2HP witha 14" impellor, 6" inlet (keep it that way) and neutral vein construction for a cyclone. You don't really have to know what neutral vein is just that your collector has it. assembly of the collector is important when it does have it though but the instructions should direct you so follow them to the T. When it says install the inlet pipe 2 and one half inches. it means exactly 2 and one half inches, it matters.
for those just dying to know. Netral vein is how a collector is constructed to control how the air flow enters the cyclone. basically the cyclone works by pushing particals agains the walls of the barrel slowing them down and they then drop into the barrel below. Simple explaination but for basics accurate. neutral vein causes the air to enter the barral smoothly and already close to the wall rather than all chaotic adn with a bunch of eddy currents etc. basically it removes any speed bumps for the air to hit. Allowing the collector to start removing debree as soon as the air enters the cyclone. other designs can be so bad that the junk does not ever get pushed up against the walls, or removed from the air stream. This just causes your filter to get clogged faster, the air is still clean if you have a good bag. My other thought is that the air can only go into your collector as fast as it can get out of the bag. canisters are best for dealing with this but expensive. a lot of manufacturers will rate there air flow such as 1200 cfm in the with a brand new bag. they then rate the filtering ability of there bag when it is 40% clogged with dust. so the collector will really only move 700 cfm of air when it is actualy filtering down to 1 micron. your lathe needs to have 900 cfm of air moving minimum. 700 cfm would work for something like your drill press.
 
Originally posted by Daniel

I am not sure that low price and effective go together. you can find plenty of low cost dust collectors that I believe do little more than give you a false since of security. The final test is does it actually work though. if you still have dust collecting on your sleeves and glasses, then it is collecting in your lungs as well.
Click to expand...

Daniel,

You may have been replying to my quote on this rather than to Nick, and if so, I will give something else I discovered. I am a creature of habit and do far too much instinctively. When sanding with MM, CA dust builds up on the MM. I take the MM and give it a slap against the work table or even the top of the lathe to shake off dust build up. I have to stop that. That is where most of the dust gets on my hands and sleeves. That is not much, but it is enough to trigger a flu like allergy. How can I tell that amount is on my hands? It feels like I have a minute' amount of silicone like lubricant or even talcum powder on my hands. They just feel slicky like the skin hands have been sanded down with super fine sandpaper.

The made for Japan - Makita DC is powerful for a 60 mm ID DC and it sucks well. Ribbons come off the blank, curl upwards about 1 1/2 to 2 inches and make a steady stream back into the opening. To me, I think less than 5% of anything manages to get past it.

But Dust does build up and load up on sandpaper and MM. When sandpaper begins to load up just a tad, I drop it to the floor until I am finished with the pen and then clean up. With MM, I slap it on something. I used to wipe it on my sleeves or pants! [B)]

Dust does still get on my glasses and I am trying to figure that out - I have to check that. In my 9 X 12 shop, I think that dust comes from all the other tools in which I do "something" while waiting on CA to cure, or set on the pen. I have a router table, TS, BS, 6" belt sander, and Drill press, so if I am in there, I am doing something else related to wood.

IMO, DC Systems are not the total solution but the primary solution. Work habits must be considered in the equation also. In some cases, dust masks must be used in conjunction with the DC, if one wants to continue working with pens and wood.
 
Originally posted by leehljp
Work habits must be considered in the equation also. In some cases, dust masks must be used in conjunction with the DC, if one wants to continue working with pens and wood.
Click to expand...

Hank, your reply is very well stated ...

I do believe that what you say is definitely the absolute truth and others should reconsider their work habits. ;)
 
Hank, not so much quoting you as expanding on the thought "How do you know if your getting all the dust?"
in a humourous tone. If your finding it everywhere chances are your dust collector is a little lacking. The truth is if you have it down to 5% you probably are doing about as well as can be done. like you say dust comes from almost everything we do in the shop. I like the folks that wear a rispirator then hang in on the lathe when they are done. next time they put it on it is full of the very fine dust they are trying to avoid breathing. someone like you that has a strong reaction to any dust is in far better position to evaluate shop habits than I am. I have to think about this stuff. you have an immediate alarm system. I still do the MM on the blue jeans stuff. ignore the collector if I'm just going to make one quick cut etc. All bad habits, I know. but it is reality that people will do these things. The guy that wrote most of what I know about dust collectors was very much in the same boat you are in. So he had a personal interest in wether a collector really worked or not. I just hate to see anyone fall for the "man it is so much cheaper to go with 4" pipe" thinking. I know my thoughts are not the common advice you will find out there. but when the issue becomes critical for someone. really accurate information becomes far more important. So nothing against the collectory you use, there will always be some dust no matter what you do. In fact dust collectors are rated on dust that is suspended in the air. not what falls to the floor etc. it is that baby powder slicky feeling stuff. and if it got stuck to your hand the collector makers think it doesn't count. it's not in the air right? collectors are made to filter the air. not the floor, bench top, or your clothes and hands. keep that in mind when you evaluate how yours is working. One of the biggest problems with catching that really fine stuff is that it is moved by just looking at it. just breathing at it will cause it to be blown out of the range of the collector, seriously. walking by it, having fans blowing etc will destroy the collectors ability to capture it. Unless you have a mountain of air moving into the collector. my shop is 16 X 20 with an 8' ceiling all finished with sheetrock taped textured and painted. pretty well sealed up. that makes 2560 cubic feet of air. by the numbers that means the collector wide open will filter every cubic inch of air in my shop in about 2 minutes. in reality it wouldn't even come close. what happens is that there becomes a river of air from the collector bag to wherever the opening in the pipe is sucking in air. that river is really clean air but every nook and cranny in my shop stays there with its stagnant dirty air.
I know this is already getting long but I'm bored. feel free to start ignoring me at any time.
one huge problem with dust collector thinking is that all the measurments are sort of alien like. just how much is a cubic foot of air? and how do you know when you have filtered it? How do you know you filtered it well enough? and man I shure would like to buy that new table saw rather than sink a grand into that noisy thing in the corner. it all lends itself to the idea that $300 will get the job done well enough, Right? Usually you would be better off saving the cost of building a shop and just work outside on breezy days. The two issues with a dust collector are that you move enough air fast enough. I know that 900 cfm is what you need at even the worst tools in your shop. but I cannot recall the speed at which it needs to travel. 90 fps is in my head but does not sound right to me. I will use that number but if anyone knows the right one please correct me. in some numbers that are not so alien that means my dust collector needs to take 1 third of the air in my shop every minute and move it through a pipe far enough to go from one end of my shop to the other the long way 270 times. or 4.5 trips back and forth every second. My dust collector will suck up a pen blank no problem, if it gets close enough to the pipe (about 2 inches away from pipe opening).
What happens when you try to move that much air through a 4" pipe? the math will prove that it cannot be done. if you know the numbers for the math that is. but once again that is entering the realm of aliens. something has to give. either less air makes it into the pipe or it moves much faster. take your guess at which one wins. Most woodworkers can look at a table saw and decide if it is in good shape and resonably safe to use. but few can look at a dust collector with the same evaluation ability. the leading decision makers than become cost, noise, and size. All of these will tend to push you toward something that is far inferior to what is really needed. lets see I can get this unit for $300 dollars that needs pipe that cost $1 per foot or I can get this one that costs $600 and need pipe that costs $3.50 a foot. hmmmm let me think. hmmmmm that is such a hard decision to make. Making the right decision almost seems like an act of insanity. In truth very few people will make it. Businesse are not given the choice thay have to have it by law. The carpenters shop at the University I work at has 12" duct work on there collector. And an impeller that needs it. there is still dust all over that shop, why because somebody did not flip a switch. no collector will work if it is not turned on.
So how is a collector rated as far as how much air it can move or how small a partical it can filter?
the collector is rated by being wide open. tis means no piep at the inlet and no bag at the outlet. the speed of the air is measured. With this and the size of the openings the cfm of air can be calculated. So unless you plan to never actually hook up anything to your collector, including a bag, you can just ignore whatever the advertisment says. Next the filtering ability is measured with air quality test aquipment. Much like you would do to determine is asbestos is in the air. any given bag is ran through many tests. each causing it to get more and more clogged. the best test it achives is what can be claimed in advertising. Generally this is when the bag is about half clogged with dust from previous tests. The industry calls this priming the filter media. I call it Bull ****. You can actually contact the manufacturer and ask them what the filter will do right out of the box. If you can locate the manufacturer that is. note this does not mean the supplier it means who made the thing.
A rule of thumb, A collector will only move half the air it claims it can, and will let particles twice as big as it says it will pass. this means yo need a collector that says it can move 1800 cfm of air and filter to 1 micron to really get 900cfm and 2 micron filtration. the cfm is not quite that bad adn I look for systems in the 1200 cfm range.
O'K so you found a moment of insanity and went for tha big noisy beast that likes to gobble up money faster than air. Now make sure you waist it all on sloppy, cheap, ineffecient duct work. yep the battle is only half over. every singel piece of anythign that you add to the inlet of the collector, reduces that 1200cfm number. and you cannot let it go below 900 or you waisted your money. the truth is every cfm you loose is waisted money but it can't be avoided. Agian every option you have available to you screams to go the cheap route. flexable pipe, chep thin stuff with ribs, on and on. Smooth sturdy long turns and tappered entrances are what you are looking for. sharp edges and sharp turnes are a collectors worst enemies. you need the air to enter the pipe and flow smoothly to the collector. easier said than done at 90fps. short straight runs are your best friend. oh and you want at least 3 feet of straight run of pipe at the entrance to the collector. the why is anouther long story but it allows the air to enter the collector ready for the dust to be removed quickly.
Think 45 degree angle short cuts to everything not 90 degree turns. nice and tidy will not likely make it into this plan. effeciency is your only concern. as short ans smooth as possible. I hihgly recommend the dustwork planing service that P.S.I. offers. it is free if you buy your stuff from them anyway. and is professionaly done. every inch of pipe, every fitting, every turn. every hood has a factor you can use in calculating how much of your cfm is lost by adding it to your system. they have these numbers and it is much easier to have them do the math than to find the numbers for yourself. well this is way to long as it is. maybe I should write an artical since this issue seems to be such an big one for me. whataya think. anyone really interested in this stuff enough?
 
Now make sure you waist it all on sloppy, cheap, ineffecient duct work. yep the battle is only half over. every singel piece of anythign that you add to the inlet of the collector, reduces that 1200cfm number.

That has stopped me from trying for a looong time. Having read this so many times, and having experience with water pressure and plumbing, air compressors and leaks, It has been familiar territory. Even trying hard, as you alluded to, you still will loose cfms. I finally bit the bullet and made one for the lathe.

When I retire in a couple of years back in the US, I will have a 12 by 18 shop with a 6 by 14 side room. It is my idea to have a couple of smaller DC systems with less duct work than to have one and lots of duct.

The good thing about my current set up here is that the hood pops off and I can add a 2 1/2" vac hose to it to clean around the lathe and on the floor. Real neat!
 
My 3 year old granddaughter has a great time cleaning up when she's around. She doesn't do a great job, but does better than I do.

My entire shop is connected to a big Grizzly 4 bag collector through metal ducting. One drop at each major tool location. But unfortunately, it does not get everything, especially the stuff that flies toward the operator and not toward the collecting hood.

What I really need is one of those shops like Norm Abrams has, it never gets dirty from what I can see.
 
Roger, after my last post I actually wrote an article. still deciding if I will submit it though. I start it with the info that no dust collector will keep your shop clean. the stuff you are talking about is exactly one of the things it will not get. it is the really fine stuff that can float around in the air for several hours that it is supposed to be getting. you still have to sweep up once in a while.[xx(]
 
Being a big cheapo, I ended up buying a 2hp dust collector and 1 micron canister conversion kit for both my garage shop and Cathy's dad's shop (where most pens are made). This greatly reduces dust escaping into the air. To get the little bit that might be missed, I threw together a simple air cleaner using a box fan, it's cardboard box, a couple of air filters, and duct tape.
 
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