What did I do wrong?

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Leslie

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Hi all, made this stopper today. Was trying to get creative was making this for my sis in law she loves butterflies.

I put the button in then the butterfly and added CA in layers,Sanded it, tried wet sanding it and so on but there is a white cloud in the bottom half.


200542633413_LeslieStopperNew3.jpg
 
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JimGo

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I'll venture a guess, or at least posit a question, since you haven't gotten any replies yet. Did you clean the butterfly before gluing it? If so, how did you clean it?
 

dubdrvrkev

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Did you let dry or use activator? Activator sometimes makes it have a white haze. How long did you wait between layers? Could the exotherm have caused to to do that?
 

Leslie

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Used the spray and I didnt wait long ( guess I was impatient?)
I glued in A jade button , then the charm on top and filled up too the charm,sprayed then completed filling.
Also I set it all up before I finished turning it so I could overlap the edges around it if that makes sense?
 

JimGo

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Leslie,
I wouldn't be surprised if there were some impurities that leeched into the CA from the butterfly. I'm also not sure if anyone here has been successful in building up CA to the thicknesses you need without getting some kind of hazing/cracking.

An alternative approach for next time would be to cast the butterfly in resin, then cut and shape the resin to fit in the space provided.

Hope this helps!
 

penhead

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Leslie,
If I hadn't had to work late last nite, I was going to try that very thing...
..however, since you experimented and didn't have satisfactory results, guess I owe you a thanks [:D]

If I had tried that and it didn't work, the next step I was going to try was to CA the button in place, and then use sanding dust (lightly dropping CA in to hold it) to fill in around the button.

If you try it, post results..[:)]
 

Doghouse

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It is more than likely that this is related to not letting it dry on its own. I have found that CA will stay soft for a long time if too much is used, and not to use anything on it if you want a clear finish. What happens is that a skin forms on the top which is cloudy because of the reaction with the accelerator.
 

Leslie

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Ill attempt one more and let it dry if that doesnt work ill try learn the other method :)
Thanks for the help I really want to get these gifts done so I can work on some pen kits I bought:)
 

JimGo

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Doghouse,

I know not about which I speak, so my question may seem dumb, but wouldn't the cloudiness be all over the CA, not just in a few spots? The lines in the CA I can see being caused from the excess CA staying soft for a long time; from what I remember of my materials engineering class (almost 20 years ago!), given the size and relative depth of the surface area here, as the acrylic crystalizes it will form natural grain boundaries, and these can lead to the lines in Leslie's picture. I assume we don't see the grain boundaries on pens as much because of the thin layers and quick set-up time of most CA's.

And I can see that accelerator will make CA change colors for similar reasons. From my understaning, the accelerator means that the acrylic crystals are not allowed to form of their own volition. Thus, instead of the fairly clear structure we normally see, they are coerced into forming crystals quickly, which makes a BUNCH of the grain boundaries I mentioned above, which in turn results in hazing.

The only thing I can think of that would result in the weird hazing/discloloration in the picture above is that the accelerator was only sprayed on a small part of the total surface area of the stopper.

Any ideas?
 

Doghouse

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I am not a chemist, nor did I sleep at a holiday inn last night. I am just passing on what I have experianced. I use slow set epoxy more than ca just because it is more predictable. (Which also relates directly to the experiance level with each product.)

Dang, I am having to appologize for everything I type today.
 

JimGo

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Doghouse,
I didn't mean to say you were wrong; just asking a question. I'm not a chemist either, but I'm curious about how stuff works.
 

Leslie

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While you guys are helping me with all this great info :) I have another question.

I have all these soap molds and I think I have some in this shape. Is there something I could pour into them to embedd charms and stuff in to get what I was attempting to do?
 

JimGo

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Leslie,
You might try casting the butterfly or other objects in acrylic, using a slightly modified version of the technique described in the "Articles" section of the main Penturners site. Just stick with clear (unless you want it colored) acrylic. You might want to do it as a 2-part pour, as described by Anthony (Penworks) in a recent thread. Basically, pour a small amount of the acrylic and let it begin to set, then put the charm or other item on top, then pour an additional layer of acrylic. Waiting for the first layer to set up should help the charm stay suspended, and the two layers together should come out without much of a line (if any) if I understand Anthony's results correctly.

You might not want to use the soap molds, though, unless you also use a release agent inside the mold (it may work, but I'd hate for you to ruin a mold; I'm not sure how expensive they are). Good luck, and please post your results! (of course, post 'em in the Casual Converstion section...yes, that's an inside joke)
 

Leslie

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Thx:) Gonna try the other one tonight because Jay probably has the materials.

Ill read the thread you mention, sounds like its very similar then to embedding in soap.Ill just have to get the materials and give it a shot.
 

jdavis

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Don't get to fast with finishes. Let things dry well before the next step. This is one of the hardest things for my students to understand. They want to hurry everything they do. They want to just get through. Take your time with ALL finishing processes.
 
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