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rpotthoff

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
17
Location
Montgomery IL
I am looking for someone with a STRONG hart and Very Patient in the western suburbs of Chicago!
I am tired with my pens not being seen as art because I have to buy a kit!
I want to learn how to do kit less pens and I learn by doing not reading or watching a video :).
I have everything to do them (I think).

Thanks Everyone!!
 
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builtbybill

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
260
Location
Clayton, NC
I am right there with you, about wanting to start making kit-less pens. The only thing that is really stopping me is purchasing the tools required, a combination of not knowing the bare minimum needed to start and the cost of the taps/dies. Keep wanting to make the plunge but money is tight.

Good luck finding someone to help guide you in your journey.
 

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
9,314
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
ART:

There are a plethora of beautiful, gorgeous, artistic pens made from components. Mark James comes to mind immediately with his chevrons and quite a few others also.

Then there are the Celtic Knots, the HerringBones, Scalloped Segments and others from kits/components.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/my-trio-scalloped-segmented-burl-pens-90786/
Mokume Slimline: http://www.penturners.org/forum/f166/just-curious-143607/
A leather pen: http://www.penturners.org/forum/f8/search-158067/

Yes, making your own will give you some freedoms, but the art part is often just as much in the design itself as the components or component-less.

Some old ones of mine from "kits":
http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Face_BlueBG_small9.jpg

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Best_pen.jpg

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Baron_PenStripes.jpg

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_30_Pieces_of_Silver.jpg
 

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,083
Location
NJ, USA.
Rob, as Hank said lets not poopoo kit pens. I n my opinion kit pens look ten times better than kitless pens. They are so generic and boring as heck. With kits you get nice detailed components and do some work with blanks and it will blow away kitless pens in my opinion. yea you drill and tap some blank material but unless you add some detail to that blank it does not float my boat.Kitless are basically always fountain pens. Just a strong opinion here so do not shoot the messenger. :):):)
 

Dalecamino

Local Chapter Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
14,569
Location
Indianapolis, In.
Many have wanted to learn to make kitless pens. Many have succeeded. There have been some who, like you, prefer to learn hands on. I am one of those, and was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. And, was able to make several visits, to learn more. If you are unable to find someone to show you about the process, the tutorials, and videos will be the next best thing. It takes time. Lots of time! Many steps involved, just to make a cap, barrel, and section. If you want to add a clip, and finial there are more steps. Adding bands to your cap...more steps. Some of these, you may teach yourself to achieve. These things are what you will need, to make your pens look like art. Just my opinion! Hands on, is a great way to learn. In my opinion, the teachers are few, and far apart.

I wish you the best of luck in your ambition. And urge you and others to do the research. Watch the videos, and soak up all you can. And if a tutor comes along, great!

I am amazed at the number of videos that are out there since I learned how to make my first kitless pen. Someone even put a new word on the label! (I guess not so new now) Bespoke!! Guess that means it's special. :biggrin:

Anyway... sorry for rambling on. Best of luck...again :wink:
 

mark james

IAP Collection, Curator
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
12,720
Location
Medina, Ohio
Art, you have an incredible Chicago IAP Chapter that can satisfy all your questions: Chicagoland.. This is the link for the last meeting announcement.

I am from Ohio, but have 2 sons that live in Chicago. As I am typing, I am at a Motel 6 in Elk Grove after a quick furniture delivery to one of my sons. (Not fancy, but OK for an evening - no bed bugs, yet). I actually visit here often , so if you have any interest in segmenting, I have no problem with visiting. If you are determined for kitless, I'll recommend the Chicago IAP Chapter; awesome folks and very open to assist.

Ask any questions you may have.
 

Woodchipper

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
5,138
Location
Cleveland, TN
What Hank said. The only limitation with kits is a lack of imagination and creativity. I am awestruck by the pens that are posted here and in the gallery.
 

rpotthoff

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
17
Location
Montgomery IL
Sorry

No don't get me wrong I love my Pen kits, I just am tired of getting turned down by these Judged Art/Craft shows because they think I have not put anything into the Pens other then buying the kits.

When I go to these shows and then see stuff I know was not made by the person sell "Their Stuff" it makes me upset.

We all put a lot of hard work and thought into our Pens and WE ARE Artists!

I live in an area that is mostly driven by the art community so it is even harder to get into these shows.

Sorry for the rant!
Just tired of us not getting our due.
 

rpotthoff

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
17
Location
Montgomery IL
lack of imagination and creativity

What Hank said. The only limitation with kits is a lack of imagination and creativity. I am awestruck by the pens that are posted here and in the gallery.

Not trying to start something here, but what do you mean by lack of imagination and creativity?

I have seen many Kit Pens that have a lot of imagination and creativity.

This is what I am trying to say, just because we use Kits to make our Pens does not mean there is a lack of imagination and creativity in them.

:)
 

pshrynk

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2017
Messages
742
Location
Lake City, Minnesota
My 2 cents is that what I do is pretty much craft, but I buy kits and blanks made by others. If I were doing segmenting or casting, then I would look at the blanks as being art that is displayed within the "frame" of a kit. The little frills of shape of turning, etc. are a part of the craftsmanship. Nonetheless, the idea that kit and blank pens are not worthy of art shows where others are just passing on what someone else made is a bit of bull roar. There is an art to craftsmanship and a craft to artwork. Lower end quality of either one isn't worth looking at, but higher end work should be viewed as such.
 

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,083
Location
NJ, USA.
No don't get me wrong I love my Pen kits, I just am tired of getting turned down by these Judged Art/Craft shows because they think I have not put anything into the Pens other then buying the kits.

When I go to these shows and then see stuff I know was not made by the person sell "Their Stuff" it makes me upset.

We all put a lot of hard work and thought into our Pens and WE ARE Artists!

I live in an area that is mostly driven by the art community so it is even harder to get into these shows.

Sorry for the rant!
Just tired of us not getting our due.

This discussion has been brought up here before. Unless you do work like SkipRat who does some great looking kitless pens than just doing a kitless pen for the sake of it is the wrong approach. As I said drilling and tapping some acrylic material is not rocket science either and makes that pen no less or more valuable or desired than a pen that has components. making of some segmented blanks or casting some watch parts or other media is not easy and could take more time and talent than making a kitless pen. We gotten into the discussion about what to call pens made from kits being we call other pens kitless. People refer to them as component pens.

If that is your motivation than good luck and post some of your work.

Some reading
http://www.penturners.org/forum/sea...rence+between+kit+pens+and+kitless+pens&sa=Go
 
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leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
9,314
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
Rob,

I would ask the judges to clarify their "definition" or "art" that seems to keep you out, and then point out that others do have components made elsewhere.

As John T pointed out, 90+% of kitless pens are fountain pens. The other 10?% of pure kitless are rollerball or ball point which are machinist made, by people such as Skiprat and other great machinists.

The reason (in my opinion) that such as high percentage of kitless are fountain pens is that the junctions are weak points unless metal (or large/fat if cast). Fountain pens do not require much pressure to write. They skim/glide across the page. Ball points require more pressure. Roller balls are between fountain pens and ball points in the pressure it requires. It is the pressure that people apply that cause breaks at joints (and most will arguer that they do not apply much pressure, but they do without realizing it). So fountain pens are less likely to break at threaded joints than ball point/roller ball. AND people who buy fountain pens are much more likely to take better care of them than ball point owners do.

All that is to say - kitless lends itself to fountain pens the vast majority of the time. That is the direction you will have to take if you go into Kitless, unless you begin to machine metal parts.
 
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Rounder

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
753
Location
Marlin, TX
What Hank said. The only limitation with kits is a lack of imagination and creativity. I am awestruck by the pens that are posted here and in the gallery.

Not trying to start something here, but what do you mean by lack of imagination and creativity?

I have seen many Kit Pens that have a lot of imagination and creativity.

This is what I am trying to say, just because we use Kits to make our Pens does not mean there is a lack of imagination and creativity in them.

:)


I think he means that the ONLY limitation to a kit pen is a persons LACK of imagination and creativity. There are beautiful kit pens made by many members using that imagination and creativity. It is only an ugly or boring pen if you don't use those abilities. And some ugly pens take imagination and creativity also. Just look at the ugly pen contest in the Bash each year.
 

rpotthoff

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
17
Location
Montgomery IL
Totally Agree

What Hank said. The only limitation with kits is a lack of imagination and creativity. I am awestruck by the pens that are posted here and in the gallery.

Not trying to start something here, but what do you mean by lack of imagination and creativity?

I have seen many Kit Pens that have a lot of imagination and creativity.

This is what I am trying to say, just because we use Kits to make our Pens does not mean there is a lack of imagination and creativity in them.

:)




I think he means that the ONLY limitation to a kit pen is a persons LACK of imagination and creativity. There are beautiful kit pens made by many members using that imagination and creativity. It is only an ugly or boring pen if you don't use those abilities. And some ugly pens take imagination and creativity also. Just look at the ugly pen contest in the Bash each year.

I know I have made some myself!
 

larryc

Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,135
Location
Mableton, GA (Near Atlanta)
Nomenclature seems to be the problem here. It has been mentioned that the use of the term "kit" makes the jurors on these art selection committees think of airplane kits. The term "components" seems to satisfy them. I have never been turned down when applying to a venue.
 

jalbert

Member
Joined
May 17, 2015
Messages
991
Location
Louisville, KY
Rob,

I would ask the judges to clarify their "definition" or "art" that seems to keep you out, and then point out that others do have components made elsewhere.

As John T pointed out, 90+% of kitless pens are fountain pens. The other 10?% of pure kitless are rollerball or ball point which are machinist made, by people such as Skiprat and other great machinists.

The reason (in my opinion) that such as high percentage of kitless are fountain pens is that the junctions are weak points unless metal (or large/fat if cast). Fountain pens do not require much pressure to write. They skim/glide across the page. Ball points require more pressure. Roller balls are between fountain pens and ball points in the pressure it requires. It is the pressure that people apply that cause breaks at joints (and most will arguer that they do not apply much pressure, but they do without realizing it). So fountain pens are less likely to break at threaded joints than ball point/roller ball. AND people who buy fountain pens are much more likely to take better care of them than ball point owners do.

All that is to say - kitless lends itself to fountain pens the vast majority of the time. That is the direction you will have to take if you go into Kitless, unless you begin to machine metal parts.
This is largely due to the demand created by the fountain pen community. There is relatively low demand for custom roller balls. I've sold numerous custom fountain pens, but have yet to get an order for a rollerball. I've done plenty of both styles, but fountain pens are where the money is.
 
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