Vortex dust separator setup

[MedWoodWorx]

I just bought a dust separator which i haven't installed yet.
Since my workshop is solar powered i am very concerned with wattage consumption so my thought is not to use my workshop vacuum (1600-1800 watts) and attach instead a fan sucking air. I have already an in line fan that i bought and never used.
Do you guys think it ll work sucking woodchips from the lathe only? The lathe table/workstation is adjacent to the wall that i will make an opening so the distance is minimal (maybe 30-40 cm, about a foot and a half).
Will the fans blades be ok with all the particles that go through the line or the air is cleaned up from the vortex thing/separator setup?
Thank you in advance for you time and effort, cheers.

 

[Curly]

My father had a pair of 16"/400mm axial fans (3 or 5 blades) mounted in a wall a few feet behind his lathe just under the window. The motors of the fans were roughly 1/2hp/380 watts each and they would easily pull all the dust and most of the shavings from the lathe especially if dry and blow them all over the ground outside the shop. You may still need to sweep and shovel up the floor but you won't be breathing anything while the fan is on. Long shavings from green wood might get into the fan and need to be cleaned out regularly or you move the lathe out from the wall so they don't get picked up. The fans came out of an industrial natural gas heater where I worked but ones from air conditioner coils will work if that's what you have locally.

Pete

 

[SteveG]

Often, the majority of debris produced on the lathe will end up on the floor. The dust collection will mostly get dust...not chips. The larger the turning, the more this statement applies. If doing pens ONLY, you could target almost all the debris, as it is generally very small stuff coming off the lathe. Just a thought to consider.

Another point...just a guess...I expect that a vortex separator may require a fairly high CFM to be effective. The separator may not not be effective, depending on the CFM your proposed system will produce.

 

[NJturner]

I guess the real question is what are you trying to do - keep your shop clean or protect your lungs? Dust versus chips lead to two different things. I would think that anything that can move air sufficiently through a reasonable filter material will reduce the dust - ultimately you want a filter capable of processing a good amount of air to eliminate the smallest of particles to protect your lungs. Most air cleaners are nothing more than a high cfm fan sucking air through progressively finer filter elements to get the dust out of the air.

A vortex is simply going to separate large and small particles. Its goal is to keep the filter material clean of larger chips and particles to keep the airflow cfm through the filter higher longer. You could say the vortex is cleaning the air, because it is, but it's not going to really affect the finer particles, as the gravity separation of the vortex has less effect on the fine stuff, allowing large amounts of it to pass to the fan or be filtered out by some additional type of filter beyond the vortex device.

If your goal is to keep your shop clean, you need high CFM plus velocity to move larger pieces through the system (think relationship of collector pipe size and the fan cfm). A large fan with sturdy blades shouldn't have an issue with normal chips passing through the blade area - most dust collectors today are nothing more than that and they do fine. Adding a vortex before the blades just lessens the chip load through the blades.

I'd focus more on lung safety (fine debris removal) than a clean shop if you are trying to save energy - you need way less power to deliver an effective air cleaner, versus a shop vacuum.

 

[MedWoodWorx]

Often, the majority of debris produced on the lathe will end up on the floor. The dust collection will mostly get dust...not chips. The larger the turning, the more this statement applies. If doing pens ONLY, you could target almost all the debris, as it is generally very small stuff coming off the lathe. Just a thought to consider.

Another point...just a guess...I expect that a vortex separator may require a fairly high CFM to be effective. The separator may not not be effective, depending on the CFM your proposed system will produce.

well i turn only pens and small objects

I guess the real question is what are you trying to do - keep your shop clean or protect your lungs? Dust versus chips lead to two different things. I would think that anything that can move air sufficiently through a reasonable filter material will reduce the dust - ultimately you want a filter capable of processing a good amount of air to eliminate the smallest of particles to protect your lungs. Most air cleaners are nothing more than a high cfm fan sucking air through progressively finer filter elements to get the dust out of the air.

A vortex is simply going to separate large and small particles. Its goal is to keep the filter material clean of larger chips and particles to keep the airflow cfm through the filter higher longer. You could say the vortex is cleaning the air, because it is, but it's not going to really affect the finer particles, as the gravity separation of the vortex has less effect on the fine stuff, allowing large amounts of it to pass to the fan or be filtered out by some additional type of filter beyond the vortex device.

If your goal is to keep your shop clean, you need high CFM plus velocity to move larger pieces through the system (think relationship of collector pipe size and the fan cfm). A large fan with sturdy blades shouldn't have an issue with normal chips passing through the blade area - most dust collectors today are nothing more than that and they do fine. Adding a vortex before the blades just lessens the chip load through the blades.

I'd focus more on lung safety (fine debris removal) than a clean shop if you are trying to save energy - you need way less power to deliver an effective air cleaner, versus a shop vacuum.

Thank you for sharing this, my goal is to have pure air so that i don't need to wear a mask all the time. I ll use the extractor only for the lathe which is used mainly for penturning as well as small parts ( tool handles, wooden rings etc.). The fan i have is a 4 inch in line fan at 220 cfm. I dont have to worry about filters and stuff ( i think) since i ll be disposing all the wood particles outside the shop and at last but not least my fan runs on dc which is great for my battery setup.
Are you suggesting that an extra filter is needed?

 

[MedWoodWorx]

Often, the majority of debris produced on the lathe will end up on the floor. The dust collection will mostly get dust...not chips. The larger the turning, the more this statement applies. If doing pens ONLY, you could target almost all the debris, as it is generally very small stuff coming off the lathe. Just a thought to consider.

Another point...just a guess...I expect that a vortex separator may require a fairly high CFM to be effective. The separator may not not be effective, depending on the CFM your proposed system will produce.

What about 220cfm? I dunno what that means but the fan sounded serious when i tested it...i turn small items for now and i am focused on dust removal not a clean shop. I just want to use the separator to protect the fan.
Thanks a lot for your time and opinion

 

[NJturner]

well i turn only pens and small objects

Thank you for sharing this, my goal is to have pure air so that i don't need to wear a mask all the time. I ll use the extractor only for the lathe which is used mainly for penturning as well as small parts ( tool handles, wooden rings etc.). The fan i have is a 4 inch in line fan at 220 cfm. I dont have to worry about filters and stuff ( i think) since i ll be disposing all the wood particles outside the shop and at last but not least my fan runs on dc which is great for my battery setup.
Are you suggesting that an extra filter is needed?

Glad some of my comments helped...... If you are looking to reduce or eliminate a dust mask, then your goal has to be to have the airflow from your lathe be away from your body. Since you are venting the air outside, and I assume not in the intake replacement air area for your shop, you would not need any filters as long as the vent to space is not a living space where others will be breathing close by. You will need a fairly good flow of air close to the source of the dust creation sucking or blowing the dust away from you to be effective.

Most folks, including me, have a negative pressure scoop (think vacuum) nearby the turning piece to collect the dust and particles coming off the turning. A safety shield for larger pieces is still a must, because a vacuum is never going to be powerful enough to stop stuff being tossed at you, but you can pretty effectively draw away harmful dust.

I am not skilled enough to be able to tell you the exact cfm you should have - but you should be able to visualize some of the effectiveness of your setup by just watching the dust flow coming off your turnings. You want as much of the fine dust to be drawn away as possible.

I do disagree with a bit of your thinking though - the best way you can reduce your electrical consumption is with a passive filter - a mask. You can get lots of different mask styles and sizes to accommodate your facial size and type. You want something that is capable of removing fine dust, so expect to pay more for the unit. I use the GVS Elipse P100 with replaceable filters. Its comfy, works well, and allows safety glasses to be worn. The Trend Stealth half mask is also pretty nice. If you want to save some costs, a simple N95 mask with a vent works well too.

 

[MedWoodWorx]

Glad some of my comments helped...... If you are looking to reduce or eliminate a dust mask, then your goal has to be to have the airflow from your lathe be away from your body. Since you are venting the air outside, and I assume not in the intake replacement air area for your shop, you would not need any filters as long as the vent to space is not a living space where others will be breathing close by. You will need a fairly good flow of air close to the source of the dust creation sucking or blowing the dust away from you to be effective.

Most folks, including me, have a negative pressure scoop (think vacuum) nearby the turning piece to collect the dust and particles coming off the turning. A safety shield for larger pieces is still a must, because a vacuum is never going to be powerful enough to stop stuff being tossed at you, but you can pretty effectively draw away harmful dust.

I am not skilled enough to be able to tell you the exact cfm you should have - but you should be able to visualize some of the effectiveness of your setup by just watching the dust flow coming off your turnings. You want as much of the fine dust to be drawn away as possible.

I do disagree with a bit of your thinking though - the best way you can reduce your electrical consumption is with a passive filter - a mask. You can get lots of different mask styles and sizes to accommodate your facial size and type. You want something that is capable of removing fine dust, so expect to pay more for the unit. I use the GVS Elipse P100 with replaceable filters. Its comfy, works well, and allows safety glasses to be worn. The Trend Stealth half mask is also pretty nice. If you want to save some costs, a simple N95 mask with a vent works well too.

My workshop is nowhere next to people! I have inherited a small plot outside town that is my retreat; i do some gardening, relaxing and penturning. So any wood dust coming out would fall on dirt ( i dont turn synthetic/hybrid blanks).
You are right however about the mask. I use a drager explore halfmask with goggles when needed which is more a gas than a dust mask. Its very efficient against vapors, chemicals as well as wood dust but a bit heavy to wear for long time. I would like to use just a face shield and thats why i am thinking about ventilation. But first i ll buy another mask and give it a try. Cheers!