Vacuum pump break down...!

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robutacion

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Joined
Aug 6, 2009
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6,514
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Australia - SA Adelaide Hills
Hi folks,

A couple of days ago, I refilled my vacuum pot with some wood to stabilize, the pump has worked every for the last week, something that is quite regular however this time, I repeated the normal procedures before I start the pump and that is, bleed the oil sump for any water generated from the day before but this time, nothing was coming out, the bleeding hole was clogged up with something that wasn't as soft as I was expected, a piece of strong wire require some force to get it through and I wondered, what it could be...!:confused:

Anyway, after the wire went true, some water start dripping put as normal, the oil lever was a little low so I topped up, as always. For quite some time (since I open the pump oil sump reservoir and cleaned the mess inside caused by water) I do this water bleeding procedure topping up with oil as needed so, I no longer, drained the hole thing out and refilled with new oil, every few stabilization sessions (about 6 to 8 hours, each), it seems to work well and I believe, I wasted less oil that way.

Turned the pump on and a terrible noisy come out of it, like something was stuck, checked everything, couldn't find anything wrong so, turn the on switch again and again. After 3 times, I though that the capacitor may have went, not allowing the motor the start turning so, took the fan cover and while flicking the power switch on, I tried to turn the fan but, it didn't burg and all of a certain, the motor start spinning and I could hear the normal sound of the tap tap of the pump sucking air.

I knew something went, looking at the fan, I could turn it easily by hand (power off), turning the motor on, there was absolutely no suction at the hose end so, was obvious that something in the pump itself, wasn't right.

When I saw the motor turning and the oil pump being so quite, I though immediately about what was linking the motor shaft and the pump shaft, I didn't know what sort of connection the shafts had so, I emptied the oil sump and remove it...!

Well, it wasn't easy to come out from the bottom, something was holding it so, I persevere a little more and the cover come out. What is the heck was that thick "gunk" at the bottom of the sump..???:eek:

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I though that, the first time I open that oil sump, the damn thing was dirty

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but this was overwhelming, what made that..???

The only thing I could think could do that was some cactus juice to be sucked into the oil but how, I have a dry paper filter in the system and anything coming coming from the pot, has to go through that filter and I wouldn't miss it, firstly because it has a clear plastic cover and, has a fair capacity before if overfills and goes into the pump.

The filter was clean and dry so, it had to have some juice in it but it didn't...!:mad:

I was also very surprised with the condition of the oil pump cast ion housing, that reddish gunk had to be from the oil that is reddish like red cordial drink. There had to be something that enter that oil and make it to react, thickening it into a considerable amount of deposit at the sump bottom and all over the pump.

The fist thing I had to do was to disconnect/unscrew the oil pump from the motor and see how they connect. It didn't take me long to see why the pump wouldn't turn, the direct drive link had snapped.

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Now, the motor is only 1/2 HP, how could it snap a 15mm diameter x 5mm thick hardened tensile steel "tang"...????

The direct drive between pump and motor connects with a type "tongue and groove" slot joint, 1/2HP small motor be able to snap that, is beyond believe...!:eek:

The "groove" part, on the motor side was quite damaged from forces exerted while spinning, both parts tempered steel and still, the groove was squashed to one side on both ends, from the "tongue" torquing into it, unbelievable stuff...!:eek::mad:

Now, what am I going to fix that...???? well, I though of something that I could use to make a tongue that is of similar density/strength to the broken tongue, I would cut a groove into the pump shaft end, similar to the one of the motor end and create a link with mainly a double tongue, each end securing both ends of the shafts.

Well, I saw this electric hammer drill cog that I pulled appart

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after it burnt out, I could just get enough thickness to get the part done. Anyone that ever tried to cut this stuff know that, is one of the hardest things to cut but, I got there eventually...!

I may had no need to use such difficult material to work with, I had stainless and black steel that I could be used but, I started with the hard stuff and made the part I needed.

The tongue was pressed into the pump shaft end but before that, I pulled the pump appart to see if the inside was also covered with that redish gunk but, I was quite pleasantly surprised when I saw that, the inside of the pump was well lubricated with normal colour oil and perfectly clean.

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Putting everything together wasn't much of a problem until I had to line up the 2 shafts inside a bearing that unless totally square to the shafts, will make it very difficult for the shafts to turn. I din't know that until I turned the switch on to test it and the motor would come on by wouldn't turn, that tightness as cause the capacitor to burn, by the time I realised was was going on.

I ordered a new capacitor but, I left the fan cover off, so that I can turn the fan to the right way when I turn the switch on, like on the lathes, it doesn't take long for the motor to spin normally, after that initial push is made...!

The pump worked all day yesterday and most of the day today, everything is back to normal, appart from the capacitor replacement that I will get done when I get it...!

I though that could be "handy" to write this thread about a type of pump that most of us use $_57.jpg

Hope this repair can be hopeful to someone, one day...!

Cheers
George
 
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wm460

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Mar 26, 2008
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Tennant Creek, Northern Territory, Australia,0860.
George you didn't change brand of oil you used?
We used to have a loader at work, the brake took 10W oil, the maintenance supervisor top them up one day with a different brand, after a little while it reacted with the original oil and turned to jelly in the master cylinder and in the slave cylinder it went almost as hard as silastic that has gone off.
 

lyonsacc

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Aug 31, 2012
Messages
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Location
Cincinnati, OH
Thanks George! My vac pump has been overheating after about 20 or 30 minutes and turns off. I need to take the thing apart and see what is going on. This gives me some ideas.

Thanks,
Dave
 

robutacion

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Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
6,514
Location
Australia - SA Adelaide Hills
George you didn't change brand of oil you used?
We used to have a loader at work, the brake took 10W oil, the maintenance supervisor top them up one day with a different brand, after a little while it reacted with the original oil and turned to jelly in the master cylinder and in the slave cylinder it went almost as hard as silastic that has gone off.

Mark,

No mate, that was no change of oil at all, since I cleaned the pump the last time, I bought a 5 litre container with this Vacuum pump oil, I have been using it ever since.

I don't think that, I would be silly enough to top up the oil level with a different oil than the one in the pump, that is always a big risk...!

I have had also a situation where, the first diesel vehicle I bought since in Australia, was a Toyota Land Cruiser ute, the very last of the old model cabin made and that was 1984. I got it in 1989-90 and the motor had done low km, the car dealer and also mechanic shop, did a complete service on that vehicle before I took it away.

Drove home about 1,200 km away and at the end of the first week of using it, the engine blow up, and what a mess it was, the sump was loaded with bits of all kinds of metal...!:mad:

I had 30 days warranty so, I complain about is and requested that the engine would be removed by a local mechanic and send all the way back for repair.

The old timer mechanic, with over 35 years experience got suspicious and got the pum out to have a look and what he found appart from a large bucket full of bits of metal was that, when they have done the service of that vehicle, they put petrol engine oil instead of diesel engine oil, it was thicker than honey, like guey, no, wonder way the pistons blow into pieces...!:eek:

Unfortunately, I know well what that "jelly" stuff you are talking about, looks like, the interesting this was that, (just to finish the story), they wanted me to pay for the motor rebuilt, and off-course the freight of both ways, saying that, I was at fault and let the engine run out of oil...!:eek:

Thanks goodness that I had a feeling that, they would try to do that so, when the local mechanic removed the engine from the vehicle, I asked him (paid for) for him to write a report of his findings so, when I was asked for the payment of the repair, before they would send the engine back to my local mechanic, I got him to send a report copy to them and a check with the value of the cost of shipping it back to me so, I endup paying for the freight both ways.

I was without the working vehicle for 7 long weeks, without it I couldn't work as I was in a remote location, it took some convincing to get them to send the engine and let the lawyers deal with the engine rebuilt issue, I was proven that, apart from having 4 weeks warranty and this happen on the first week and that, the problem was indeed caused by the wrong oil, I had a sample of it (well, the mechanic did) and I was freed to pay any further costs...! They should have paid for the transportation of the engine both ways but, I was happy to have it back and not have to pay for the ridiculous amount of money they wanted for the rebuilt, if I remember correctly, $4.200 ...! remember that this is 1989...! I paid $15,000 for the vehicle, had it for 14 years and sold it for $9,000 but everything was done to it and was in perfect working order...!

Cheers
George
 
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robutacion

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
6,514
Location
Australia - SA Adelaide Hills
Thanks George! My vac pump has been overheating after about 20 or 30 minutes and turns off. I need to take the thing apart and see what is going on. This gives me some ideas.

Thanks,
Dave

Dave,

It can be a couple of things, the one that I suspect the most, is the bearing on the motor, there are 2 but one (where the shafts join) does work really hard so, if one is spinning freely and getting tight, that will increase the workload of the engine and that will turn the motor of, when exceeds a certain temperature.

It pays to get the oil sump off, and check is a couple of tiny holes under the pump and one at the front, are clear, they are very small and if clogged, the pump struggle to get the oil to circulate properly that can also put some strain on the amount of torque the motor has to produce and therefore, will get very hot...!

I'm going to buy another pump the same I got now, for under $200.00 this pump had worked very hard since day one, I had put through it dozens and dozens of cactus gallons, Curtis will validate that, I'm more than happy to replace a pump after that amount of work however, I don't think for a minute that, my pump is going to die soon but, I realised how much of a nasty situation it will be for me, if I lose the pump when I'm stabilizing wood lots, that can go for days on end, it will be smart to have a spare, (a replacement will take one week) easy for me to use 5 or more gallons in a single week, I actually have to restrain myself and make the juice last for as long as I can, which is never long enough, I'm always running out and I order at least 4 gallons at the time...!

It may be the weather but, most of my woods are really thirsty...!:eek::frown:

Cheers
George
 

lyonsacc

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Aug 31, 2012
Messages
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Location
Cincinnati, OH
Thanks George! I'll get a good look at it in another 6 or 7 weeks after my work load gets back to normal. I've only run 3 or 4 gallons of juice on it.

I have to get my dust collector motor repaired, so I may (after taking a closer look at it) take the vac pump with me when I drop off the other motor for repair.

Dave
 
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