Trouble in paradise.

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TurtleTom

TurtleTom

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Joined
Jul 24, 2015
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Location
Checotah, Oklahoma 74426
I can't seem to get rid of these spots, anyone know the cause/cure?
Bloodwood sanded to 1200, cleaned with CA accelerator, (like I saw on YouTube) 5 or 6 coats of pen turner's finish. sanded with 1200 between coats after 4th coat. MM to 12000. Sanded and finished 3 times! :confused:
 

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Looks to me it is the sanding dust from the Finish is filling pores which weren't completely filled when Finish was applied.
Perhaps when sanding the Bloodwood, use some oil while sanding with your sandpaper to help fill this open grain.

Hope this helps.
 
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Looks like sanding dust to me trapped in the open grain. I use denatured alcohol and high pressure air to blow out before I seal with CA.

Hope this Helps.

Tim
 
What do you mean, cleaned with CA accelerator? If you cleaned the wood with the accelerator before you put CA on it, you may have a dried buildup of accelerator in the pores of the wood and you are getting an overcure of the CA. Try sanding to 400 or 600, wipe off excess dust and apply the CA and then give a light spray of accelerator or just wait for the CA to cure. Then repeat as many times as needed to build up the CA to whatever your desired depth is and then sand to 400 or 600 just to get smooth, then what I do is mm to 12000 and then use a plastic polish, I use plastx from maquires.
I really hesitated to answer here because you may get a few dozen different replies. But you have always seemed like a nice guy here and I would like to see you succeed with the CA. I had all kinds of problems with CA and tried everything until I seen a demonstration at the Tukwilla Rockler and what I do is so simple and it works. So that's all I will say on this thread. If you would like a more detailed description of what I do PM me.

Curt
 
I think I need to mike the parts before I sand again. I'm gonna wear out these tubes, this is the third try on this Jr. Anthony fountain pen for me.
I'll try the DNA and air, thanks Silverado. (Hope I'm not back.)
 
I have this happen sometimes, and more often when I use any finish other than CA. I speculate that it isn't dust. Instead, I think it's finish that accumulates in the pore, below the surface.

Even though you've gone through the series of MM pads, this finish in the pores doesn't get polished because it's below the highest surface.

I like to fill these kinds of pores with a wet-sand slurry using of some kind of oil. Walnut oil is my choice, but others will work. When you wet-sand through to the final grit of your choice (I go to 800 or sometimes 1200), wipe it down and let it sit for a day or two. Then apply your finish.

I also think we're sometimes too impatient and don't let the finish cure before going though the "finish the finish" steps, and try to polish a gummy finish.
 
Try rubbing it down lengthwise with a clean cotton cloth after it is sanded.
This may seem strange but I've had this issue with bloodwood, brownheart and other open grain woods.
 
Tom, I believe that your problem started when you used the Ca accelerator. Why would you ever use such a product to clean a piece of wood? Just because you saw it being used by someone else on You-tube doesn't mean that it will work for you, by using the accelerator your applying a layer of product that is used to set-up a finish. Who knows how it reacts to other products, especially finishing materials that already have some sort of dryers in them. I recommend that in the future, you use a better cleaner than ca accelerator.
Len
 
Brian G said:
I have this happen sometimes, and more often when I use any finish other than CA. I speculate that it isn't dust. Instead, I think it's finish that accumulates in the pore, below the surface.

Even though you've gone through the series of MM pads, this finish in the pores doesn't get polished because it's below the highest surface.

I like to fill these kinds of pores with a wet-sand slurry using of some kind of oil. Walnut oil is my choice, but others will work. When you wet-sand through to the final grit of your choice (I go to 800 or sometimes 1200), wipe it down and let it sit for a day or two. Then apply your finish.

I also think we're sometimes too impatient and don't let the finish cure before going though the "finish the finish" steps, and try to polish a gummy finish.
Click to expand...


This is the answer to the question as to why. The answer to how to avoid is fill the grain. The darker the wood the more the spots will show. You can do a slurry finish or you can do a CA finish but do not sand until the grain is filled. Using Pen Turners finish will be a challenge because you will need to put several coats on just to fill the grain. If you do not bring the grain to the level of the wood you will always collect dust residue in the pores. Or even worse wax or polish. Good luck.
 
Thanks everyone, I've pretty much decided to give up the CA accelerator but for the reason DNA is much cheaper and it worked very well.
I normally fill the pores with shellac but today I forgot. Apparently it's not a habit yet.
It's all a long slow learning process by mostly experimentation.
 
Doesn't accelerator have water in it? Trapping water under the shellac based finish? Just guessing here, don't really know the chemistry of the materials.
 
I found that oak and purpleheart act the same way ... giving me little bits of white in the pores of the grain. It's why I started wiping my blanks own with rubbing alcohol just prior to finishing. :)
 
Skie_M said:
I found that oak and purpleheart act the same way ... giving me little bits of white in the pores of the grain. It's why I started wiping my blanks own with rubbing alcohol just prior to finishing. :)
Click to expand...
Again with the rubbing alcohol:) I would switch to Denatured Alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is loaded with water. Just a suggestion. Your milage may vary. :) It will not matter what finish you use. Unless you fill the grain in you will get sanding residue in there and it will look white. That to me is the key if you want to eliminate the white flecks. Again just my opinion.
 
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Meh ... I really should remember to tell people that I use 91% isopropyl alcohol rather than the 70% stuff.
 
Not really Skie, I think pretty much all woodworkers know the difference. I think he may have just meant the .08 percent that is H20. It is something to think about.
I used to cure green bowls in the stuff. It worked but the water in the blanks diluted the isopropyl more quickly than you might think.
For some reason I fear DNA, maybe more than I should. I used to make a lot of shellac to use with a spray gun. You're going to use DNA or Everclear, and I used the Everclear for a long time. Makes nice shellac.
I never tried making shellac with isopropyl though, I wonder if it would work.
 
Oh ... and I found out recently that you should NEVER use alcohol to clean a plexiglass or plexiglass-related product, like Lucite.

It will craze the drilled holes and such .... (many many cracks going every which way)
 
Heartwoodturning said:
I think its either sanding dust or finish trapped in the pores. If it is dust once you have turned and sanded, before you apply the finish, wipe with a tack cloth and it should get all the dust out the pores.
Click to expand...

A tack cloth in my shop would have a half-life in the nanoseconds. Just for a lark I might take one in there in a zip-lok just for shock effect. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
 
Heartwoodturning said:
I keep mine in a old screw top curry jar. the downside is every time i go to use it I get hungry!
Click to expand...

Would that be a red or green curry paste? I've been out for a long time with no where to restock. Thanks for the jar idea. I think I'll try it, it's gotta be better than Denatured Alcohol.

If you use DNA have you read the MSDS safety sheet for DNA?

/Chronic Exposure Effects:
May cause symptoms listed under inhalation, dizziness, fatigue, tremors, permanent central nervous system changes, blindness, pancreatic damage, and death./ (These weren't all either.)
 
Not sure how badly the curry paste would affect my health ....

(trying to lose weight, and I don't think it'll clean my pen blanks very well either)


I wonder what the MSDS looks like for Acetone?
 
Skie_M said:
Not sure how badly the curry paste would affect my health ....

(trying to lose weight, and I don't think it'll clean my pen blanks very well either)


I wonder what the MSDS looks like for Acetone?
Click to expand...


You are not going to like it so stay away.



TurtleTom said:
Heartwoodturning said:
I keep mine in a old screw top curry jar. the downside is every time i go to use it I get hungry!
Click to expand...

Would that be a red or green curry paste? I've been out for a long time with no where to restock. Thanks for the jar idea. I think I'll try it, it's gotta be better than Denatured Alcohol.

If you use DNA have you read the MSDS safety sheet for DNA?

/Chronic Exposure Effects:
May cause symptoms listed under inhalation, dizziness, fatigue, tremors, permanent central nervous system changes, blindness, pancreatic damage, and death./ (These weren't all either.)
Click to expand...


Tom it maybe time to find another hobby. :biggrin:If you are going to read every MSDS sheet on everything you touch or breathe stay away from the shop. Hate to tell you what that dust from that pen you are sanding can do. Hate to tell you what that can of of CA accelerator can do. See if you can find the MSDS sheet on Pen Turners plus. Could be an interesting read.

I always and I mean always advocate safe practices in the shop and that means correct type of mask, correct type of gloves, eye safety. Working in any shop needs diligence and intelligence. Work safe. Hope we do not have to add a disclaimer on everything we suggest.:)
 
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Skie_M said:
Not sure how badly the curry paste would affect my health ....

(trying to lose weight, and I don't think it'll clean my pen blanks very well either)


I wonder what the MSDS looks like for Acetone?
Click to expand...


I'll bet it would clean your pen blank! :biggrin:

You maybe shouldn't have asked, MSDS Acetone:

Harmful by inhalation. Vapours may cause drowsiness and dizziness. Inhalation of high
vapour concentrations can cause CNS-depression and narcosis. Severe overexposure may
produce more serious symptoms, including coma and risk of kidney damage.
INGESTION: Harmful: may cause lung damage if swallowed. Ingestion causes burning sensation in the mouth, throat and stomach and gastrointestinal disturbances. Ingestion of this product may
result in central nervous system effects including headache, sleepiness, dizziness, slurred speech and blurred vision.
DELAYED EFFECTS: Repeated or prolonged exposure may cause damage to the liver and kidney.
 
Here you go Tom

Just one kind of CA accelerator but they all probably have the same warnings. I do not know which one you are using. I can do this too.:) Do you feel ill.??? :)


http://www.saftlok.com/stl/msds/MSDS-IB_Accelerator.pdf


You may want to look at this one for rubbing alcohol:biggrin:

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924412




This is an interesting part of that.

p.
5
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Hazardous in case of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant, sensitizer, permeator).
Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals:
Not available.
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans:
M a y c a u s e a d v e r s e r e p r o d u c t i v e / t e r a t o g e n i c e f f e c t s ( f e r t i l i t y , f e t o x i c i t y , d e v e l o p m e
n t a l abnormalities(developmental toxin)) based on animal studies. Detected in maternal milk in human.
Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Acute Potential Health Effects: Skin: May cause mild skin irritation, and sensitization. Eyes: Can cause eye irritation.
Inhalation: Breathing in small amounts of this material during normal handling is not likely to cause harmful effects. However,
breathing large amounts may be harmful and may affect the respiratory system and mucous membranes (irritation), behavior
and brain (Central nervous system depression - headache, dizziness, drowsiness, stupor, incoordination, unconciousness,
coma and possible death), peripheral nerve and senstation, blood, urinary system, and liver. Ingestion: Swallowing small
amouts during normal handling is not likely to cause harmful effects. Swallowing large amounts may be harmful. Swallowing
large amounts may cause gastrointestinal tract irritation with nausea, vomiting and diarrhea, abdominal pain. It also may
affect the urinary system, cardiovascular system, sense organs, behavior or central nervous system (somnolence, generally
depressed activity, irritability, headache, dizziness, drowsiness), liver, and respiratory system (breathing difficulty). Chronic
Potential Health Effects: May cause defatting of the skin and dermatitis and allergic reaction. May cause adverse reproductive
effects based on animal data (studies)
 
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We do indeed play with hazardous materials, that is why I have a high speed fan blowing past my head and out the (3' away) door while I am at the lathe. Gonna be a problem this winter, I'll need to figure something else out.
In the first couple machine shops I worked in back the 60's I was required to routinely wash parts by hand in a bucket of Methyl Ethyl Ketone and several other horrible solvents I don't remember that were equally bad. (Maybe that's why I don't remember.)
 
I was getting the same thing, I found that I wasn't applying enough CA, I was only applying about 3-4 coats of thin CA. Once I changed to Medium CA and started applying 6-10 coats, sanding with 240 or 320 when it got lumpy it went away.

Let me know if that helps you too
 
Heartwoodturning said:
I keep mine in a old screw top curry jar. the downside is every time i go to use it I get hungry!
Click to expand...

I tried your idea with the tack cloth, no, not the curry jar, I used a peanut butter jar. I bought the tack cloth at Walmart but when I used it on the piece in the lathe it transferred the tacky stuff to the blank. So then I had to clean it with CA accelerator. BUT, it worked and I got a nice pen, so thanks.
 
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