Tips for sanding/finishing very “blonde” colored woods

[rfas]

I am still experimenting with different woods to figure out what I like and don't like turning. I'm finding that when I turn a very light colored wood, I have issues with dirt getting into the grain and causing unsightly black marks when I'm sanding. It usually happens when I get through all of the sandpaper grits and start wet sanding with micro mesh. If I use anything other than fresh, right out of the package abrasive pads I get the black marks. And even then, if there's any amount of dust whatsoever in the area, I may still get them.

Today I tried aspen which was a nice wood to turn and finished beautifully, but as soon as I touched it with an 800 grit micro mesh pad it turned almost completely black and I had to go back through all of the sandpaper grits starting with 150 to get the nice blonde color back. I stopped at 600 grit so it didn't come out quite as smooth and shiny as I like.

Of course using a completely new set of abrasives for each pen can get pretty pricey, and even that doesn't seem to be a guarantee of it not happening.

Do any of you have tips for working with the lighter colored woods? I tend to prefer darker colored woods anyway, but if there are some good tips for not turning your wood black I would certainly appreciate them.

Below is the aspen pen I turned this morning.

 

[jttheclockman]

The first question is are you sanding with the bushings still in place?? You are probably picking up the metal dust from them if you are using. Any time I use light colored woods and or combine woods for segmenting I skip sanding and just use the skew to turn to desired size and then finish. My finishing is done between centers with nylon duron bushings. Any other sharp turning tool can take the place of a skew if you can not use one. The photo is tough to see because aspen is not a clear material and that is either lots of tool marks or glare from flash and that needs to be cleaned up.

 

[Fred Bruche]

What finish are you applying to the wood before final sanding/polishing? Like CA, friction polish, wax, WOP?

 

[rfas]

The first question is are you sanding with the bushings still in place?? You are probably picking up the metal dust from them if you are using. Any time I use light colored woods and or combine woods for segmenting I skip sanding and just use the skew to turn to desired size and then finish. My finishing is done between centers with nylon duron bushings. Any other sharp turning tool can take the place of a skew if you can not use one. The photo is tough to see because aspen is not a clear material and that is either lots of tool marks or glare from flash and that needs to be cleaned up.

Yes, I was sanding with bushings in place. It makes sense thst removing the bushings and using nylon would make a difference. I will give thst a try. Thanks for the tip!

 

[rfas]

What finish are you applying to the wood before final sanding/polishing? Like CA, friction polish, wax, WOP?

Friction polish - Aussie oil.

 

[qquake]

I don't use Micro Mesh on wood, nor do I wet sand wood. I dry sand with 220-400 grit, then use "synthetic" steel wool. The finish I use is Pens Plus. I'm happy with the results I get.

 

[Fred Bruche]

Friction polish - Aussie oil.

I use that on bowls, it's really awesome "juice".
I'm getting that you are sanding before applying the finish. If you can get to 600 grit without issue, you probably don't need to go further up the grit ladder, you won't see/feel any difference.

 

[qquake]

I was just thinking, if you're wet sanding wood, the moisture might be picking up dark powder from the bushings. Also, I've heard of some people blowing off blanks with compressed air before applying the final finish. This probably helps more with coarse grained woods.

 

[Bats]

I was just thinking, if you're wet sanding wood, the moisture might be

Do people wet-sand unfinished wood? I was under the impression that would just raise the grain and then require another round of sanding after it dried (although I have always wondered whether wet-sanding stabilized wood might be viable)

picking up dark powder from the bushings.

This was my first thought as well, since I've made that same mistake before (I'm just not good enough with a skew for JT's method).

 

[qquake]

Do people wet-sand unfinished wood? I was under the impression that would just raise the grain and then require another round of sanding after it dried (although I have always wondered whether wet-sanding stabilized wood might be viable)


This was my first thought as well, since I've made that same mistake before (I'm just not good enough with a skew for JT's method).

I've never wet sanded wood.

 

[rfas]

I was just thinking, if you're wet sanding wood, the moisture might be picking up dark powder from the bushings. Also, I've heard of some people blowing off blanks with compressed air before applying the final finish. This probably helps more with coarse grained woods.

That very well what may be happening. I'll stop wet sanding wood and try a few other things that were suggested here. I've had good luck micro sanding certain woods down to 1500 grit but maybe it depends on the wood and how open the pores are. The aspen was rather fuzzy and I couldn't get it quite as smooth as I like with sandpaper. Maybe a good candidate for a CA finished, which is something I haven't tried yet.

 

[PatrickR]

I agree with the other comments additionally if you don't want to use CA get some sanding sealer or lacquer and apply it before sanding, a thin wash coat is what you want. sanding to such a high level (dry) is only going to be worthwlie on hard dense oily wood that is know to polish well.

 

[rfas]

I redeemed myself with a Wenge pen this afternoon. I'm finding I like turning the darker woods much better. The aspen does have a certain beauty to it but its grain patterns are very subtle. This piece of Wenge had very striking grain.

 

[jttheclockman]

Put the 2 together and you really have something interesting.

 

[rfas]

Put the 2 together and you really have something interesting.

I'll get to that point eventually. Right now I'm just turning a lot of pens and figuring out what woods I enjoy working with. I've done some acrylic as well but I really enjoy nice exotic hardwoods, some more than others so far.

 

[jttheclockman]

I'll get to that point eventually. Right now I'm just turning a lot of pens and figuring out what woods I enjoy working with. I've done some acrylic as well but I really enjoy nice exotic hardwoods, some more than others so far.

Burls of any kind are always great to look at and make classy pens.

 

[howsitwork]

Put the 2 together and you really have something interesting.

Try some Holly , especially if you can get a slow dried two tone cream bit.

Now that would look superb as a celtic knot with the Wenge JT ?

 

[jttheclockman]

Try some Holly , especially if you can get a slow dried two tone cream bit.

Now that would look superb as a celtic knot with the Wenge JT ?

Absolutely. Aspen is as close to holly as you can get too. It is very white. The wenge has lots of grain and the holly or aspen is plain so it will not detract from the base wood. Throw in a bloodwood stripe and add to the knot and also a couple trim rings.

 

[howsitwork]

Not tried Aspen but the Holly I have is hard and cuts like butter. Definitely not "fuzzy" as Ray found the Aspen.

Due to the drying I have a small amount of "bluing" in some bits but the cream colour is superb generally. Hmm blood wood not tried it but Paduak could work well or a nice Mahogany veneer layer to sandwich the holly?

Might have to add that on to the to do list JT !

 

[jttheclockman]

I use aspen for scrollsawing and it is nice wood to cut. Never found to be stringy or fuzzy.

 

[aRMdaMAN]

I don't use Micro Mesh on wood, nor do I wet sand wood. I dry sand with 220-400 grit, then use "synthetic" steel wool. The finish I use is Pens Plus. I'm happy with the results I get.

U lucky Guys.
Would dearly love to get my hands on some of the good DOCTOR's superb Finishing juices
They won't ship that to us across the pond :-(
Oh, well !!!
aRM

 

[qquake]

U lucky Guys.
Would dearly love to get my hands on some of the good DOCTOR's superb Finishing juices
They won't ship that to us across the pond :-(
Oh, well !!!
aRM

Have you tried making your own friction polish?

homemade friction polish - Google Search

 

[rfas]

Have you tried making your own friction polish?

homemade friction polish - Google Search

I haven't yet. That's next up on my list. My only small issue is the recipes I have call for denatured alcohol, which we can't get in California. I will need to order something like 99% isopropyl and give it a shot. I'll get there! For now I have enough Aussie Oil to keep me going for a little while.

 

[Bats]

I haven't yet. That's next up on my list. My only small issue is the recipes I have call for denatured alcohol, which we can't get in California. I will need to order something like 99% isopropyl and give it a shot. I'll get there! For now I have enough Aussie Oil to keep me going for a little while.

Or you could just grab some non-denatured Everclear - then you can use the same bottle for mixing up shellac and cocktails!

(Or is Everclear illegal too? What's next, California? Taking away recreational dynamite?)

 

[rfas]

I

Or you could just grab some non-denatured Everclear - then you can use the same bottle for mixing up shellac and cocktails!

(Or is Everclear illegal too? What's next, California? Taking away recreational dynamite?)

I know I could use everclear. It's just a bit pricey for that purpose. Isopropyl is quite a bit cheaper.

There's so much we can't get here that's frustrating for a woodworker. DNA, acetone, even mineral spirits in certain parts. I have to drive 2+ hours to get mineral spirits.

 

[qquake]

How about 99% isopropyl alcohol? It has less water in it.

 

[Bats]

I know I could use everclear. It's just a bit pricey for that purpose. Isopropyl is quite a bit cheaper.

Well, yeah... I suppose... but it tastes awful in cocktails.

There's so much we can't get here that's frustrating for a woodworker. DNA, acetone, even mineral spirits in certain parts. I have to drive 2+ hours to get mineral spirits.

Never mind the fact that everything causes cancer in California. I suspect your state also has something to do with that awful "green" mineral spirits stuff, which can be substituted for real mineral spirits in exactly no circumstances. It doesn't even make a decent brush cleaner.

The DNA thing is odd, though. I thought sure I'd even seen some methanol-free DNA a few years back (which I was looking for because... well... it probably made sense at the time) that was only available in California.

 

[qquake]

I

I know I could use everclear. It's just a bit pricey for that purpose. Isopropyl is quite a bit cheaper.

There's so much we can't get here that's frustrating for a woodworker. DNA, acetone, even mineral spirits in certain parts. I have to drive 2+ hours to get mineral spirits.

I thought they didn't sell Everclear in California, either.

 

[rfas]

How about 99% isopropyl alcohol? It has less water in it.

Yep, that's the plan.

 

[rfas]

Well, yeah... I suppose... but it tastes awful in cocktails.


Never mind the fact that everything causes cancer in California. I suspect your state also has something to do with that awful "green" mineral spirits stuff, which can be substituted for real mineral spirits in exactly no circumstances. It doesn't even make a decent brush cleaner.

The DNA thing is odd, though. I thought sure I'd even seen some methanol-free DNA a few years back (which I was looking for because... well... it probably made sense at the time) that was only available in California.

I can get real mineral spirits. I just have to drive a ways for it. It's outlawed in certain counties - LA, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino to name a few. Fortunately San Diego isn't one of them, so whenever I go down that way I make a Home Depot stop and pick up a couple cans whether I need it or not.

A couple months ago I needed acetone and couldn't buy any locally, so I raided my wife's nail polish remover, only to find that it was acetone free.

 

[egnald]

I haven't yet. That's next up on my list. My only small issue is the recipes I have call for denatured alcohol, which we can't get in California. I will need to order something like 99% isopropyl and give it a shot. I'll get there! For now I have enough Aussie Oil to keep me going for a little while.

Greetings from Nebraska. I don't know why it is a pet peeve of mine since I am from South Dakota & Nebraska, but the whole Denatured Alcohol situation in California is a bunch of stacked up governmental overreaches.

Pre 1920, it was just good old Ethanol (probably cut with 5-10% water) but since the government didn't want anybody to have alcohol during prohibition, the made up a law to force Ethanol to be De-Natured by adding some poison (Methanol) to it. Then in 1933 after prohibition ended the government left the Methanol law in place because they didn't want anyone drinking anything that didn't carry their heavy alcohol tax burden.

Now they are telling us the stuff is to dangerous for some folks to even get because of the Methanol they forced into it. So essentially the government has taken something good, made it bad for you, and then has taken it away from you because it is bad for you.

Sorry for the rant - Nebraska remains one of the 36 states where you can still buy both 190 proof as well as 153 proof Everclear (Ethanol). They haven't taken away Denatured Alcohol either. Isn't it funny, 95% Ethanol - 5% Water (Everclear) sells for $20/quart but 95% Ethanol - 5% Methanol (Denatured Alcohol) sells for only $5 per quart. Perhaps something to do with taxes????

Regard,
Dave

 

[Bats]

Now they are telling us the stuff is to dangerous for some folks to even get because of the Methanol they forced into it. So essentially the government has taken something good, made it bad for you, and then has taken it away from you because it is bad for you.

Well how else are they going to justify their paychecks? After all, if they ever solved the real problems, they wouldn't have anything left to campaign on.

 

[aRMdaMAN]

Have you tried making your own friction polish?

homemade friction polish - Google Search

No Sir
Haven't thought about it before.
Now that U mention it the Ingredients would be the main issue.
Maybe something like BLO and SHELLAC or Varnish as we refer to it here
Don't know if I'm right ??
Any suggestions, please
TIA
ATB
aRM

 

[aRMdaMAN]

No Sir
Haven't thought about it before.
Now that U mention it the Ingredients would be the main issue.
Maybe something like BLO and SHELLAC or Varnish as we refer to it here
Don't know if I'm right ??
Any suggestions, please............ooopS !!! Did not see the Google recommendation. Will do

Had a look see. Thought as much. The only addition being DENATURED ALCOHOL which we refer to METHYLATED SPIRITS here. The 99.9% ETHANOL which I had recently Priced is about US$50.00. I had bought some for my other usage Years ago at Quarter the Price !!!
Thanks a zillion for this. Gonna get these together and try my own Batch.
Really appreciate the lead and pointers
LORD BLESS

 

[aRMdaMAN]

Hello there QQ
Got my "LOVE Potion #99" together
Now to finish some Pens and give it a shot with genuine "Elbow Grease"
Once again Thank You kindly Sir, for sending us in the right Direction when we had no hope of advancement
LORD Bless
ATB & TC
aRM

 

[RunnerVince]

Way late to the party, but I thought I'd chime in anyway. I often sand up through 800 grit and then at least partway up the micromesh grits on bare wood, and I don't have the issue you're describing. I also don't sand with my bushings (by the time I get to sanding, I'm turning between centers with no bushings), and I never wet sand until there's a finish on the pen.
Those two things should be enough to greatly reduce/eliminate the blackening you've described. In addition, think of light-colored woods as great practice for your choice of tool, and see if you can get a surface that doesn't even need to be sanded prior to finishing. I've only ever been able to do this on cherry, but I'm still practicing.

 

[leehljp]

Since this thread has come back up, I will join in again also. Don't run away from light colored woods, there are a couple of easy ways to eliminate sanding dust from bushings, which caused the problem for the OP.

1. TBC IS SIMPLE. It is easier to do for some than it is to get their mind around it. I heard about TBC and for a couple of weeks couldn't get my mind around it, but just went into my small shop and decided to figure it out. Shucks, I was over thinking it. It was simple. With TBC, you are taking the bushings off for the final turn and sanding. Problem of dark sanding dust SOLVED.

2. Most people here are totally unaware of this simple trick, but a few great turners do use this. For new turners, it may take practicing for 20 to 30 minutes on a throw-away blank or two: When you turn a blank with the tool of choice, be it a skew, a scraper, or carbide insert, the wood is pristine. If you use a freshly sharpened skew, scraper or fresh carbide insert, and light touches, the blank will be pristine and SMOOTH, already turned to size - and you didn't even use sandpaper. I, and a few others do not use sandpaper as our tools alone make the wood as smooth as the best sandpaper can make it. Yes, a properly sharp tool can make the wood so smooth that sandpaper is not needed. It is SANDPAPER sanding the bushings that make sanding DUST that discolors the wood.

A sharp tool will clean up the sanding dust created by sanding. It works best once the bushings have been removed from the blank and then the blank has been put back on the TBC and then touched up with the freshly sharpened tool. NO sanding dust!