Thoughts on learning to go kitless

[grebmar]

I haven't posted in a while, but was on a hiatus before starting my kitless adventure over the holidays. I don't have anything worth showing here yet, but I did manage to cobble together one pen with all the threading correct, but with different blanks and a barrel that blew out as I was shaping the end. It does still assemble and write great, but I wasn't thinking clearly about the correct proportions, so the cap is too long for the body and just looks wonky. Most of my commercial fountain pens seem to have a ratio of cap to body (excluding threads) of roughly 1.33, and a length when capped about 140-145 mm, so I am going for somewhere in there.

So, I've learned a lot, but there is a lot yet to go. Some other things I've learned that might help anyone else going down this road:

1) I was surprised at just how thin the walls are on the section threads and the threaded end of the section and barrel–about 1mm on the section and not much more on the barrel. I shouldn't be surprised, but I didn't go through the actual calculations beforehand to figure this out. I'm using a M10 x 1 and M13 x .8 triple lead, and I broke several section threads and at least two barrels while threading with the tap. I've read that some use M9 x.75, which for a Bock #6 nib would make the walls holding the barrel threads thicker, but then makes section threads even thinner--that sounds like a real challenge. Alumilite and acrylic hold up best, Rhinoplastic seems too brittle to tap, after 2 or 3 tries. I will try using a threaded sleeve to go over the outside threads on the barrel to help stabilize the walls for drilling and threading with the tap.

2) Many of the recommendations say to use the die with the labelled side out. At least for the M10 x 1 die that I have, labelled side in works. When the label was out, it wouldn't bite into the tenon and start the threads.

3) I've seen many times here and elsewhere that in the triple lead dies, you should cut the threads, flip the die and cut again to make sure that the threads are even. I tried this twice, and the only result I got was that the threads I made on the first pass were cut off on the second pass after I flipped the die. Is there a secret I don't know about? Do I need to start the die in the exact same place? Maybe rotate the die backwards until I can feel the threads clicking into place, before I start cutting?

I've now been thinking through the process more, and have made more careful measurements and plans about overall size and proportions and sequence of steps. I hope I can post a picture of a moderately successful pen soon!

 

[RKB]

I too have been considering a venture into the world of custom pens. My motivation has been fueled by IAP, and of late by Casey from Australia who shows some great custom wooden pens. There is a fantastic white paper on custom pen making on Beaufort Ink website, here is a link: https://www.beaufortink.co.uk/an-introduction-to-custom-pen-making written by Phil Dart for your consideration. It is very well done and I hope you find it helpful. Best of luck.

Rod

 

[CjG78]

Another one down the rabbit hole!! Be careful, it's hard to get out of it! Lol.
First up, myself and most others have gone through what you have to start with. It is a delicate and precise practice which takes time to get the hang of. Different materials need different approaches. Experiment with your tenon size and find that sweet spot where you can reverse the die and it removes more length not depth.
I've found that acrylic likes a slightly thinner tenon than resin.
Also don't over tighten your die in the holder, especially once flipped. Have it so the holder just stops it from spinning. If the threads are too fine, you can tighten the grub screw a little more and re thread.
Proportions will come after time, better to make them a tad longer than you need and part off. Once you figure out your dimensions, record it in a book and refer to it until you don't need to anymore. This helps.
Internal measurements need to be precise every time too. Repetition is the only way.

To answer your points, section threads can be tricky to start with. Some make a relief cut at the rear of the tenon after the threads so that it fits into the barrel. This is fine but risky. I mm walls are tricky enough without the added .8 or so thickness of the relief.
I leave this part out and chamfer the inside of the barrel a little with a deburring tool gently, just enough so that it connects without excess rubbing. It's not noticed on the final product and gives the section extra strength on the mandrel.
So after you have threaded your tenon (assuming you are using an er32 collet) leave it on the collet, turn the rear of the section after the tenon down to size (checking regularly initially by screwing the barrel onto it). Once you have 95% turned, shape the rest of the section to 95%, then slowly drill your hole that runs the whole way through. Part off and most of the work is done, pop onto your mandrel and finish drilling from the other side (I only do jowo, so I use 5/16, 11/32 and 23/64) then carefully and gently remove the last 5%. You'll notice it is not concentric and will be a tad off round, that's why I leave that last 5 or 10% of meat to turn on the mandrel. The less turning on the mandrel the better. Remember that 1mm wall on the tenon! 1 catch and it's all over.
Negative rake carbide is the best for me.

There could be a few reasons why you are removing your threads once you flip the die, like I said above, make sure your tenon is at the right diameter, smooth, flat and polished a little. Make sure the die isn't too tight in the holder, clean the threads with a toothbrush regularly, check your dies and clean them regularly (taps also, I have a small brass brush).
Most importantly, have fun and learn from your mistakes!!
If I showed all of mine, there would be dozens of pics
Casey.

 

[duncsuss]

Casey covered a lot of stuff, I do things a little differently (mostly sequence) but I'm not going to confuse you by throwing too many options into the mix.

The one thing I will add is that the end of the tenon should be chamfered at 45 degrees before you start cutting threads with a die. Doesn't have to be long - a thread or two is plenty - it gives the square edge of the die a ramp into the previously-cut threads rather than having to hit it dead on to avoid stripping.

To be honest, I never bother reversing the die to chase the threads. Maybe because I aim to have a "flat peak" on the threads rather than a sharp point (as in, I turn the tenon smaller than the "official spec" calls for, e.g. 8.8 mm diameter for M9 x 0.75 threads.)

 

[PatrickR]

I'm on the same path. Having completed 4 and ruining probably twice that.
start your die chamfered side out, forget about the stamping. I have not been reversing the die. This seems like an aesthetic thing to me. Having the threads taper before the shoulder looks ok to me and doesn't effect anything.
make the cap as short as possible and adjust the barrel to the length you like.
i have only used 9x.75 for #5 nibs, 10x1 for #6 with 12x.8 for the cap normally.

 

[Pierre---]

Some dies are have chamfers on both sides, so there is no use to reverse them. Others are chamfered only on one side, so you can try it, but it can be dangerous... When I do so, I prefer to hold them with a sweet hand, not with a die holder. But I guess it is OK to forget it and stay on the safe side.

 

[grebmar]

Thank you all for your suggestions. Casey, thank you for all the tips--I've been enjoying your pens for some time now. I hope that I can get to that level of quality.

I did stop cutting the relief in the tenon and it seemed to improve the strength. It seems to be more crucial in the section than the barrel.

I've been chamfering the tenon for threading, but I don't know yet if it will help with flipping the die. I'll give it a try. Today I managed to complete a new barrel without destroying it, but I clearly need to work on the joint between the threads and the section.

This work has proved more delicate that I anticipated, and requires a lot of patience. But that makes it more rewarding!

 

[Wayne]

I too have been considering a venture into the world of custom pens. My motivation has been fueled by IAP, and of late by Casey from Australia who shows some great custom wooden pens. There is a fantastic white paper on custom pen making on Beaufort Ink website, here is a link: https://www.beaufortink.co.uk/an-introduction-to-custom-pen-making written by Phil Dart for your consideration. It is very well done and I hope you find it helpful. Best of luck.

Rod

Also here https://www.penturners.org/resource...duction-to-custom-pen-making-august-2020.455/

 

[grebmar]

I meant also to say that I have used the Beaufort Ink guide--it's really helpful.

 

[fernhills]

I am thinking about making custom pens. I watched a youtube video where he said you can make them with common things you have on hand. the items he spoke about i have, so, for me, no extra investment is required while learning. If I like it I will then go the extra steps to get those special taps and dies needed for top quality work. I will be looking on here more often. Carl

 

[leehljp]

GREAT THREAD! Thanks Everyone!