The perception of a novelty pen

[WriteON]

I gifted a FireFighter pen to someone(family). Was not sure how they would receive it. They absolutely loved it....meant a lot to them. They think I carved, engraved it....and mentioned that on a community forum. I feel slightly uncomfortable about it. Usually people ask How long does it take to make pen...after while I realized they were referring to the hardware...I'd say it's a kit. I might explain on that forum that the FF pen is a kit and the body is hand turned... But I also do not want deprive the person of the special feeling of getting this particular pen and the sentiment that went along with it. She said it's the nicest thing ever given to her. I do not want to take that away.

 

[FrankH]

I gifted fighter pens to two firefighters and a police pen to a police officer. The recipients were very emotional. The wife of one of the FF pens showed me a newspaper photo on her phone of a burning house with her husband coming out of the house carrying a small child. I got ahug that day.

I mostly gift my pens. I tell them I buy the metal components as package and turn the barrel(s) on a lathe. I don't like to call them kits.

 

[magpens]

I also don't like using the word "kit" when talking about a pen to gift recipients, etc.
Some people have a negative view and think/say that all you have done is assemble the pieces and that there is no creativity in it.

I often say something like what FrankH suggests, but you can tell by the reaction that is not totally acceptable, possibly because they don't have a good concept of what skills are involved in using a lathe, or they may not even know what a lathe is.

Still looking for a better way to handle this.

 

[WriteON]

To specify I say Components...not kit. My point is I feel awkward that she thinks I constructed the entire pen.

 

[FGarbrecht]

It's the thought that counts! The fact that you went to the effort to find the hardware, buy it, select a blank, turn and finish it and put it all together is plenty, and I think recipients of these kind of gifts don't really care what the underlying process was (although they may be curious about how it is all done). What is important is that you acted on your impulse to generosity. Kindness is NEVER wasted .

I was standing in line at our hospital cafeteria after a night on call recently and the person in front of me paid for my coffee in a kind of 'pay it forward' gesture. It was a small thing but the simple act of kindness really touched my grumpy old heart.

 

[magpens]

To specify I say Components...not kit. My point is I feel awkward that she thinks I constructed the entire pen.

I fully understand your wish to be "forthright and honest", and the use of the word "components" is a better compromise than "kit".

The feeling of awkwardness I also fully understand. . Perhaps focussing on the description of the lathe process and the polishing of the blank will help to relieve the situation.

 

[leehljp]

To specify I say Components...not kit. My point is I feel awkward that she thinks I constructed the entire pen.

Perception is of course abstract. I don't like taking credit for more than I do, and I don't like taking credit for being called "skilled" for things that to me are natural or just plain common sense. That said, not every person has the ability to comprehend the magic of making a block of wood fit within 1/1000 of an inch of the metallic components to which it joins. "Just Turning the Wood" is not the complete story by any means. The fit, the feel, the colors that come together, the finish, all play a part.

I have come to learn that some people with great skills, talents and education in certain areas can't comprehend the idea of making a pen or using a saw or wrench or welder or even a screw driver.

My pastor is wants to be like many that he works with. He asked for and got a $300 basic tool box kit two years ago. Wrenches, sockets, pliers, adjustable wrenches, etc. But he cannot comprehend how to use them. They are still in his box, unused. There are people like that!

I understand how you feel, but just take it and don't destroy her opinion by telling her that " it's not that complicated, or its nothing." it might be "little to nothing" to you by your natural abilities, but it is much to her. That is what counts.

 

[Dehn0045]

I usually tell people that that I purchase the metal parts (sometimes I call them "pieces", "components" or "kit") and I turn and finish the body. The point is that I don't want to give the false impression that the entire pen is handmade. But at the same time, there are components like the refill or spring that nobody would think was made by me, so it is a bit of a gray area. Sometimes I will just tell people that I "made" the pen, not everyone cares about the details. Anyway, I think that unless you are intentionally trying to mislead a recipient then there is no foul. In this case, I would suggest telling her individually rather than publicly through the forum (unless the post by her was meant as a referral to your business, then I would suggest telling her privately first and then either she or you can clarify on the forum)

 

[wolf creek knives]

I never use the word "kit" when referring to a pen I've built. I also don't use the word "make" I use "build". And as the others have mentioned I explain the building process and talk about my choice of wood and the "building" process that takes place. Everyone I given as a gift is appreciated and I always get a big thank you. You should be proud of what you've done and if questioned explain the building process.

As for "paying it forward" try this. The next time you have to stop and pay a bridge toll, pay for the person behind you (as long as it's not a big expense). I've done it several times and it's always appreciated. I just hope they pay it forward for someone else some day.

 

[WriteON]

I don't like taking credit for more than I do, and I don't like taking credit for being called "skilled" for things that to me are natural or just plain common sense.

That is exactly what I'm talking about. And only in this particular case I do not want to reduce the pleasure of how the recipient received the thought involved. I feel great about this particular pen...more so than any I have done or will ever do.

 

[WriteON]

Thanks for the replies. There's no confusion or question on my end.... The feeling of giving and what comes from it is priceless. Aside from how the pen was received I made 2 friends from it... 2 total strangers that I will be neighbors with eventually. PenTurning... it's more than a hobby!

 

[TonyL]

I just received an order from a Navy vet for a support the troops pen. for himself. Who I am to impose my taste.? It was my 3rd order for that kit. I don't even like to sell it because there is so little material on it - but they all wanted it ($65 each)

 

[MillerTurnings]

To specify I say Components...not kit. My point is I feel awkward that she thinks I constructed the entire pen.

I also use components, not kits.

 

[WriteON]

I just received an order from a Navy vet for a support the troops pen. for himself. Who I am to impose my taste.? It was my 3rd order for that kit. I don't even like to sell it because there is so little material on it - but they all wanted it ($65 each)

An order is a request to purchase. Sell dem pens

 

[Pen_man_ship]

Good read, thank you, educational.

 

[wolf creek knives]

I just received an order from a Navy vet for a support the troops pen. for himself. Who I am to impose my taste.? It was my 3rd order for that kit. I don't even like to sell it because there is so little material on it - but they all wanted it ($65 each)

Sorry Tony, any Veteran that wants one of my pens or knives get's a 25% discount right off the top, sometimes at no cost. You might have discounted this price, I don't know but I figure they've given enough so why not give back a bit. Again, just my opinion.

 

[TonyL]

Sorry Tony, any Veteran that wants one of my pens or knives get's a 25% discount right off the top, sometimes at no cost. You might have discounted this price, I don't know but I figure they've given enough so why not give back a bit. Again, just my opinion.

No need to apologize to me. You did draw some incorrect conclusions about my support for veterans, but that's ok. Much peace.

 

[More4dan]

My father in law's cousin saw a folding knife I had "made", It was a kit that I heavily modified, and had a sour look on his face. The next time I saw him he showed me his full custom knife he had made when he lived in South Africa. It was clearly made from the same kit. The maker lost any future business from him, he was not happy. Always be upfront with folks, you'll be better in the long run. I get very embarrassed when someone mistakenly thinks I made everything on a kit based pen and I have to explain. Better if I do it upfront.


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[WriteON]

Always be upfront with folks, you'll be better in the long run.

Always.... whether it's sold or gifted. Kills me when I see pens claimed to be custom. I was asked about the blanks. Said I buy acrylic or wood blanks shaped like cube of butter.

 

[GraiDawg]

interesting read applicable to us all. i feel bad that my current batch are so much better than pens i made a year ago, but i cannot afford to recal them all and remake them.

 

[WriteON]

interesting read applicable to us all. i feel bad that my current batch are so much better than pens i made a year ago, but i cannot afford to recal them all and remake them.

I bet the originals look great and everyone is enjoying them.

 

[WriteON]

Sorry Tony, any Veteran that wants one of my pens or knives get's a 25% discount right off the top, sometimes at no cost.

Very generous. Very kind of you. I try to do what my gut/heart tells me to do.

 

[wolf creek knives]

No need to apologize to me. You did draw some incorrect conclusions about my support for veterans, but that's ok. Much peace.

No conclusions drawn Tony. I'm sure you support the troops in a way that is not known by me which I can respect. I didn't intend to put you, or anyone else, on the spot, I was just saying what I did. I hope no offense was taken as I do value your input.- Tom

 

[wolf creek knives]

My father in law's cousin saw a folding knife I had "made", It was a kit that I heavily modified, and had a sour look on his face. The next time I saw him he showed me his full custom knife he had made when he lived in South Africa. It was clearly made from the same kit. The maker lost any future business from him, he was not happy. Always be upfront with folks, you'll be better in the long run. I get very embarrassed when someone mistakenly thinks I made everything on a kit based pen and I have to explain. Better if I do it upfront.


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I agree completely with your post Danny. I've seen a lot of knife makers say they're making "custom" knives and I can tell you exactly where they bought the blank. If you ever look up "Wolf Creek Custom Knives" on FB you'll see what I mean, that's not me, I don't do FB. I'm upfront and honest with not only people ordering my knives but also it is clearly stated on my web page. I also don't charge a custom made price.

 

[WriteON]

I had a buddy would say ... It's custom
Made for you... and a million other people. I think most of us know ourselves. After a while I realized the different types of salespeople/craftsman.
They are:
Professionals
Charmers
Bullshooters
Scrap Iron dealers
Hucksters
Manure Merchants.
There is no substitute for quality and it comes back to you. But sadly the "charmer" tends to prevail with anything being sold/resold. But hey...is it a craft/hobby or a livelihood.
A friend that inspired me to turn gave me a SlimLine with plain wood finished with MyLands Friction years before I started. Could not appreciate what went into it. Did not think it was a piece or artwork. Never used it. However I did appreciate that he took the time to make it for me. It's on my cocktail table. And staying there.

 

[Editorialz]

I think the value in any finished piece is how you perceive it yourself. Anytime I talk to other woodturners I always ask them the question, what do you think of what you've just produced without trying to influence them in anyway? If they ask me my opinion I'll tell them but generally the customer or recipient will tend to pick up on that energy. That's just my experience for what it's worth.

 

[More4dan]

I had a buddy would say ... It's custom
Made for you... and a million other people. I think most of us know ourselves. After a while I realized the different types of salespeople/craftsman.
They are:
Professionals
Charmers
Bullshooters
Scrap Iron dealers
Hucksters
Manure Merchants.
There is no substitute for quality and it comes back to you. But sadly the "charmer" tends to prevail with anything being sold/resold. But hey...is it a craft/hobby or a livelihood.
A friend that inspired me to turn gave me a SlimLine with plain wood finished with MyLands Friction years before I started. Could not appreciate what went into it. Did not think it was a piece or artwork. Never used it. However I did appreciate that he took the time to make it for me. It's on my cocktail table. And staying there.

And at the very bottom of your list, Politicians!


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[penicillin]

All of my pens have been gifts. Most of the time the recipient truly appreciates the work that went into it. A few times, they seem indifferent, which is disappointing to me. Rarely, a recipient does not seem to appreciate the time and effort I put into their pen. People are people. Most of the time, recipients are effusive in their appreciation, almost embarrassingly so.

I tell recipients that I "made" their pen. I am not trying to deceive them into thinking that I manufactured all the parts myself. Sometimes recipients ask how I made the pen. I tell them that I buy the metal parts in a kit and turn the wood on a lathe, then assemble the pen. I am not trying to hide the details; it isn't a secret. As my children would say, it is "TMI" for "too much information." In general, including qualifications or providing detailed explanations are distractions that can spoil the pleasure of giving and receiving a gift.

If someone here wants to dispute my use of the word "make" then we can respect each other's opinion. I am not going to invest all that time and effort to tell my recipient that I "assembled" their pen for them. When I "make" dinner, it does not necessarily imply that I raised and slaughtered the chickens and cows and grew the vegetables and fruit myself. Nor did I manufacture the dinnerware from raw clay and sand, either.

Unlike some of the people who have small manufacturing operations for selling pens in craft fair quantities, I make pens a few at a time, and each pen has a recipient in mind from the start. Whatever positions others may take here, I can live with myself, "making" pens for my gift recipients.

 

[WriteON]

All of my pens have been gifts. Most of the time the recipient truly appreciates the work that went into it. A few times, they seem indifferent, which is disappointing to me. Rarely, a recipient does not seem to appreciate the time and effort I put into their pen. People are people. Most of the time, recipients are effusive in their appreciation, almost embarrassingly so.

I tell recipients that I "made" their pen. I am not trying to deceive them into thinking that I manufactured all the parts myself. Sometimes recipients ask how I made the pen. I tell them that I buy the metal parts in a kit and turn the wood on a lathe, then assemble the pen. I am not trying to hide the details; it isn't a secret. As my children would say, it is "TMI" for "too much information." In general, including qualifications or providing detailed explanations are distractions that can spoil the pleasure of giving and receiving a gift.

If someone here wants to dispute my use of the word "make" then we can respect each other's opinion. I am not going to invest all that time and effort to tell my recipient that I "assembled" their pen for them. When I "make" dinner, it does not necessarily imply that I raised and slaughtered the chickens and cows and grew the vegetables and fruit myself. Nor did I manufacture the dinnerware from raw clay and sand, either.

Unlike some of the people who have small manufacturing operations for selling pens in craft fair quantities, I make pens a few at a time, and each pen has a recipient in mind from the start. Whatever positions others may take here, I can live with myself, "making" pens for my gift recipients.

Good post. And yes to "I make". There are no rules. Whatever,however you present your pens are proper. Keep having fun. I like your screen name.

 

[wolf creek knives]

All of my pens have been gifts. Most of the time the recipient truly appreciates the work that went into it. A few times, they seem indifferent, which is disappointing to me. Rarely, a recipient does not seem to appreciate the time and effort I put into their pen. People are people. Most of the time, recipients are effusive in their appreciation, almost embarrassingly so.

I tell recipients that I "made" their pen. I am not trying to deceive them into thinking that I manufactured all the parts myself. Sometimes recipients ask how I made the pen. I tell them that I buy the metal parts in a kit and turn the wood on a lathe, then assemble the pen. I am not trying to hide the details; it isn't a secret. As my children would say, it is "TMI" for "too much information." In general, including qualifications or providing detailed explanations are distractions that can spoil the pleasure of giving and receiving a gift.

If someone here wants to dispute my use of the word "make" then we can respect each other's opinion. I am not going to invest all that time and effort to tell my recipient that I "assembled" their pen for them. When I "make" dinner, it does not necessarily imply that I raised and slaughtered the chickens and cows and grew the vegetables and fruit myself. Nor did I manufacture the dinnerware from raw clay and sand, either.

Unlike some of the people who have small manufacturing operations for selling pens in craft fair quantities, I make pens a few at a time, and each pen has a recipient in mind from the start. Whatever positions others may take here, I can live with myself, "making" pens for my gift recipients.

Not a dispute, just a word check. I don't use the word make as it bit me when I was selling knives. Someone asked me if I "made" the knife. Being new I said yes and was immediately corrected by a bystander who said "you didn't make this knife, you bought the blank and built it". Thus the word "build" became part of my vocabulary. I guess I was really embarrassed about what this A$#hole said. So I've switch words but I truly believe the meaning is basically the same.

 

[WriteON]

Not a dispute, just a word check. I don't use the word make as it bit me when I was selling knives. Someone asked me if I "made" the knife. Being new I said yes and was immediately corrected by a bystander who said "you didn't make this knife, you bought the blank and built it". Thus the word "build" became part of my vocabulary. I guess I was really embarrassed about what this A$#hole said. So I've switch words but I truly believe the meaning is basically the same.

I like it. I hear people say they built a 1911 or an AR. "Built" is very appropriate. I turned, sanded, polished, finished the blank and built the pen. I did tell a friend who thought I casted & engraved the hardware that it is a Bag of Parts!! My favorite questions are How long does it take to make...and how much does it cost to make. How much is an easy one to answer.... Cost more to make than it's worth.

 

[GraiDawg]

A friend that inspired me to turn gave me a SlimLine with plain wood finished with MyLands Friction years before I started. Could not appreciate what went into it. Did not think it was a piece or artwork. Never used it. However I did appreciate that he took the time to make it for me. It's on my cocktail table. And staying there.
i think that sums up what and why we do this

 

[penicillin]

Not a dispute, just a word check. I don't use the word make as it bit me when I was selling knives. Someone asked me if I "made" the knife. Being new I said yes and was immediately corrected by a bystander who said "you didn't make this knife, you bought the blank and built it". Thus the word "build" became part of my vocabulary. I guess I was really embarrassed about what this A$#hole said. So I've switch words but I truly believe the meaning is basically the same.

I make knives too. I make them from kits that come with a manufactured sharp blade and other metal parts. I have no problem with "make" in that context, either. I am the one who chooses the wood, shapes it, assembles the parts, etc. It takes time, skill, and effort. Whether the wood was bought from ready-to-use blanks (scales) or the blade was already formed or not, I "made" that knife. Some people shape their own blades from metal, like garage springs, and some people make their own steel from raw ore. I admire their work and praise them for going beyond what I can do, but I still "make" pens and knives.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/make
Selected from the first and second definitions, from the above link:
* to bring into being by forming, shaping, or altering material : make a dress
(My comment: Mirriam-Webster didn't say, "spun the thread and wove the fabric.")
* to put together from components : houses made of stone

To hell with the pedants and purists who look down on others, solely to puff up their own egos. I truly admire the work of those who go far beyond my meager abilities with pens and knives. They can stand up straight and let their works speak for themselves. At the same time, they should be offering positive feedback and encouragement for those of us with fewer resources, time, and skill, not tearing down others with petty bullying.

-> The reason you felt embarrassed was that you accepted that bystander's judgement. I would have viewed the incident as:
A total stranger jumped into a private conversation to wave a big red flag, saying, "I am petty bully who likes to tear down others' accomplishments!" You don't even know if he has ever made anything close to your own achievements. Maybe all he has known is failures, and your knives are the sour grapes.

I might have responded:
"EXCUSE ME!, but I invested a lot of time and effort into this beautiful knife. I chose the kit and a complementary wood, matched up the grain, shaped it, chose the finish, and applied it perfectly. It took several hours of work and many earlier failures to learn my skills and attain my level of experience. It cuts well and will serve its owner for many years. You have every right to your own opinion, but I am going to say that I MADE this knife, and say it with PRIDE!" Let's agree to disagree on that."

If it is how you feel, I suggest you drop "build" and rely on "make." Nobody can take away your sense of accomplishment unless you let them.

 

[wolf creek knives]

I make knives too. I make them from kits that come with a manufactured sharp blade and other metal parts. I have no problem with "make" in that context, either. I am the one who chooses the wood, shapes it, assembles the parts, etc. It takes time, skill, and effort. Whether the wood was bought from ready-to-use blanks (scales) or the blade was already formed or not, I "made" that knife. Some people shape their own blades from metal, like garage springs, and some people make their own steel from raw ore. I admire their work and praise them for going beyond what I can do, but I still "make" pens and knives.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/make
Selected from the first and second definitions, from the above link:
* to bring into being by forming, shaping, or altering material : make a dress
(My comment: Mirriam-Webster didn't say, "spun the thread and wove the fabric.")
* to put together from components : houses made of stone

To hell with the pedants and purists who look down on others, solely to puff up their own egos. I truly admire the work of those who go far beyond my meager abilities with pens and knives. They can stand up straight and let their works speak for themselves. At the same time, they should be offering positive feedback and encouragement for those of us with fewer resources, time, and skill, not tearing down others with petty bullying.

-> The reason you felt embarrassed was that you accepted that bystander's judgement. I would have viewed the incident as:
A total stranger jumped into a private conversation to wave a big red flag, saying, "I am petty bully who likes to tear down others' accomplishments!" You don't even know if he has ever made anything close to your own achievements. Maybe all he has known is failures, and your knives are the sour grapes.

I might have responded:
"EXCUSE ME!, but I invested a lot of time and effort into this beautiful knife. I chose the kit and a complementary wood, matched up the grain, shaped it, chose the finish, and applied it perfectly. It took several hours of work and many earlier failures to learn my skills and attain my level of experience. It cuts well and will serve its owner for many years. You have every right to your own opinion, but I am going to say that I MADE this knife, and say it with PRIDE!" Let's agree to disagree on that."

If it is how you feel, I suggest you drop "build" and rely on "make." Nobody can take away your sense of accomplishment unless you let them.

Well put and I can completely understand your point of view. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. I stopped attending custom knife shows due to the fact that when I wanted to enter they told me that buying blanks didn't count. Funny thing was there was one "Custom" maker who admitted to me he designs the knife on a piece of paper and then sends the drawings to a guy who makes the blank, sends the blank to a heat treater, then has the handle made and applied and then the sheath maker. He gets a completed knife back and says he's a custom knife maker, HMMMM. He was actually at the last show I went to in Montana. So I just don't go anymore.