Thank you and good bye

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Without your encouragement, along with Roy, Lou, Steve Roberts and a couple others, I would not have had the initiative or confidence to make, present and sell pens at the level I do. I thank you for making those $500-2000 pens a reality, not just a dream. Remember, those who stick their head above the crowd draw the most fire from those who hide and snipe. Thanks for rising above.

Jon
 
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I don't think I've ever commented on one of these "I'm outta here" threads, but maybe it's time I do. I gave Andy essentially the same thoughts by PM.

I can sympathize with the feeling of wanting to leave! I can't count the times when some server problem has kept me up until 3am, or I've wanted to go to the shop but I need to spend a couple hours reviewing contest rules or shipping mugs, or I've just prayed for the end of March when I could think of something other than the Bash for a few months. And although far less frequent than it used to be, I've felt the same thing when I'm trying to tamp down some useless pissing contest between members who have opposing viewpoints but just can't discuss them calmly and move along, but who have to take interesting topics and politicize or religionize them and beat them into a senseless pulp. And of course when we do tamp down some discussion which was going out of control I'm lambasted for being a censor or being too politically correct.

All those things don't give me the warm and fuzzy feeling that I'm welcome here or that this is a good investment of my time. And the icing on the cake is when a good member proclaims that the IAP is in a "death spiral" or has "a cancer" and announces his departure. That's not such a great thing to hear about something you've built for 10 years. Sure would be nice to hear "hey Jeff, I think you have a problem here, do you know about it and can I help somehow?"

So, believe me, I understand the incentive to say "who needs this!"

But I stick around. For the same reason that I don't sell my house because the neighbor down the street doesn't cut his grass until it looks like a hayfield and lets his dog crap on my lawn. Because I believe in the overall goodness of the community, and I'm willing to deal with some annoyances and work to improve the situation.

It's easy to leave a forum, and there are a lot of ways to convince yourself that "it's the right thing to do." I can understand how easy it must be for a member to walk away. Make a goodbye post, log off, and head over to Facebook, where everything is beautiful and people are respectful. :biggrin:

When I was about 8, I announced my plan to run away from home. I told mom and dad how much better off the family would be if I wasn't there to cause trouble. He said "Ok son, good luck, but I don't believe you understand how much that will hurt our family." I have always remembered that phrase, and in fact 30 years ago it helped me talk a very dear friend out of ending his life.

Dad went on to say how he wished I'd stick around to help him solve whatever problems were making me want to leave, then he gave me $5 and offered to drive me anywhere I wanted to go. In the car on the way to nowhere, he suggested we stop for a last meal together. Obviously, I didn't run away that day, and although it might have crossed my mind again, it was never a serious option. Over a burger, dad had convinced me that it was the selfish, easy way to approach a problem. My family wasn't even fully aware of what I was upset with, but leaving would have given them zero chance of working with me to fix it.

Thanks for listening. I join you all in wishing Andy good luck.
 
Goodbye my friend,
As you may have noticed I have only posted once in a couple of years, but I have been reading and following the site everyday. I too, stopped posting because I felt like their were too many "experts" that had a differing opinion to mine and had no problem telling the membership I was wrong in what sometimes was opinionated and ugly for whatever reason. It blackens your day, and with all the problems in our everyday lives, why would we seek more? I just chose not to point out my issue until now, I mean why should I rain on another's parade, but it looks like this thread aready has some precipitation in it already.

I think a lot of the problems with people on this site and their disagreements is just human nature. I am on a couple of other sites and they have their issues too, so I don't know as the problems are "cureable", maybe a thread like this and the loss of you, being a helpful, resourceful individual, will wake some people up to the fact that offensive, opinionated posts go further than when you get up from the computer. Oh...and I always liked your avatar!!!
Mike
 
It is always sad to see an artist leave and take his or her comments on such a broad spectrum of issues. He will be missed but not forgotten. I have learned not to be too offended by comments because you never know the mental state of the person sending them. Everyone has good and bad times.
 
Andy... I've read with much interest your insightful suggestions to newer turners like me.

I will humbly ask you for another lesson.

Show that you are above the BS, will not let the BS back you into a corner, and that thoughtless folks who simply enjoy arguing (not just with you, but with many) and getting under other folks' skin will not succeed.

I for one suspect I would have much to learn from you, and it will be my loss for your absence. For all of us in IAP who actually appreciate "considerate debates," your words have an audience.

Mark
 
Andy, I have not been able to be online over recent days, and was most disappointed to read this thread, and feel compelled to add my appreciation of your experience, knowledge, comments, and guidance.
From your words, you obviously have been hurt, and upset, by whatever was said.

I would like to share with you, a comment given to me by a much wiser associate, that I use, that has supported me over the years, in dealing with difficult and hurtful situations.

"Take their INSULTS as COMPLIMENTS, and put it down to THEIR IGNORANCE".

I join the many who have expressed, their sincere thanks to you, and desire that you find it possible to please reconsider your decision.
If that is not possible, then "Thank You "for what you have unknowing contributed to me and numerous other Pen Turners.
You will be sorely missed.
Brian.
 
yeah I read ya Andy.
Ya know I once did these local Renaissance Faire / Festivals and it was fun and all but after 10 years of pretty much being on the inside or back stage of these events we have only 3 30gal tubs of "garb" and that is it to show for it other than perhaps a small learning curve in vending and dealing with managers of events in general.
Now with that being stated, after 5 years the wife and I pretty much took a break for a year. Went back to doing just Security and medical response. and did that for 5 more years... and we are on a longer break nowadays. doubt however that we will return other than going to just see those people that we made a friendly connection with. Yet for the most part I understand exactly where your coming from. So with that, don't worry about it. If you decide to return, I'm sure we'll be here. Like the guy from those Motel 6 commercials say; "We'll leave the light on for ya."
 
Here's the thing---

PenMan1 said:
To the hundreds of people I've met here in the past years, I will always consider you my good friends. As always, my door will be open and I'll help you with anything that I can . I'll always appreciate your visits and phone calls.

I thank you for your friendship , guidance, encouragement during bad times, your happiness for me during the good times, your business advice and the laughter we have shared.

I have learned MUCH from the IAP and the good people here. Thanks Eagle for demonstrating that ANYTHING is possible. Thanks Steve Roberts and Roy Robaldo for helping me understand that the only limits on this planet are the ones that you place on yourself. Thanks also to JohnU, Capt G, Toni, Doc, Don Ward, Skiprat, Smitty, Russell Eaton, LarryC, Ed and Dawn Mike Redburn and Dale Camino, you know I've drawn inspiration from you on COUNTLESS occasions. Thanks also to the hundreds I didn't mention by name, and to the top-quality vendors here at IAP. Also, three that I daily, Cav, Textatdurango, and chuck key-the place just isn't quite the same without you.

I have always tried to "give back" to those just starting out, because of the generosity of those that helped me along the way. Their only payment was "pay it forward" and I've tried to do just that.

It does seem lately that when I make a post on methodology that has been tried and true for me, it turns into a peeing contest. Two things about peeing contests:1. It takes TWO people to have a contest and 2. It always diminishes the whole group. SO, it occurred to me that my being here makes it a lessor place. By leaving, I also remove one party, so it's harder to have the wee contest. I care too much for this group to be part of its demise.

Finally, I have no problem with those that disagree with me. It's part of life, it spurs healthy debate. Frankly, I think disagreement helps us all to grow. BUT, to have my character (and most here don't know my character)attacked SIMPLY BECAUSE I think a post is inapproiate, irrelevant and controversial and brings NO VALUE TO IAP, is unforgivable . I can have my character attacked by those who know it and have a legitimate "say" about it. In short, I've outgrown the pettiness of some here.

As they say in the movies "AMF, I'm outta here.
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At times like this Andy, Take a deep breath and count to 10 -- if you are really upset Count to 100. Then take another deep breath.

Now I'm not gonna fall all over myself telling you to stay - you're an adult and can make that decision yourself. I'm also not going to fawn all over you telling you how much I'll miss you - personally I probably won't even notice you're gone fo about 6 months or so. Then I'd only notice if a good marketing thread came along that you would normally be the center of.

That being said - there are some folks here who will miss your wisdom and sound advice. And the question you should ask yourself is whether you should leave a forum where you are obviously welcome because of a minor snit about something that few people even give a damn about.
 
Andy, I will sorely miss your wit and wisdom and I sincerely hope you will reconsider your decision to leave. As many others have said your posts on this site were always ones that I considered required reading. As a result I would like to Thank You for sharing your knowledge and making IAP the great forum it is,

Wayne
 
PenMan1 said:
I've outgrown the pettiness of some here.
Click to expand...

My first thought was "Good. Be the bigger man" but then...

PenMan1 said:
As they say in the movies "AMF, I'm outta here.
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That's not the way to do it. It's a knee-jerk reaction.

There's a line I'd always give my soldiers when SHTF between them and they weren't getting along...

"Everyone has the potential to be an A-hole. Whether or not they are depends on if you can see things from their point of view."

They'd usually laugh, think about what I'd just said, realize what I meant, and whatever problem they were having would seem like the bunch of BS it was. These guys worked better and were safer as a whole when they all got along.

If there was still tension between them I'd follow up with "But sometimes you just can't get your head that far up your ass." and give them a confused look - like I was trying to sort out how to do so.

Laugh it off. Don't let people live rent-free in your head.
 
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Now that we've all had a chance to say goodbye to Andy, I'm locking this thread. I don't believe that it's particularly good for the community (and visitors reading who are thinking of joining) to see over and over again on the front page feed about one unhappy situation which isn't typical or indicative of our community. If you disagree, PM me.
 
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