Tail stock point and head point don't match?

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Rcd567

Rcd567

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
240
Location
Glenwood, Iowa, USA.
I know I'm not using the proper terminology, but when you slide the tail piece up to the turning point, I believe they are suppose to line up. Mine are off slightly. Is there a trick to it? It's a new Grizzley model, and I'm new to wood lathes. I would do a search but I'm not sure what they are called?

Thanks for the help.
 
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Well, I'd say welcome, but you been here for a WHILE, I guess!!

Usually, I would address you by name, but it's not in your profile.

To answer your question, R, Did you LOCK the tailstock, after you moved it tothe headstock? Sometimes they will move when locked. IF you tried this, which direction is the "slop"?? Up and down or front to back? Is the Grizzly new or used and new to you? (Tells us more about the wear of the "ways" - the bars the whole thing moves on).

Since the forum will probably be very slow on Christmas eve, you COULD try searching "Lathe" and "adjust" - might get you some ideas. I'll be happy to help, if you continue to post AND tell me your first name!!!
 
Cav,

What are YOU doing here???

Shouldn't you be putting out presents for your "little girl"??

Merry Christmas to you and Nancy!!!
 
Welcome Rcd - You will be pleased to know that the 2 folks who are trying to help really don't know their headstocks from their tailstocks and this can be one of the most frustrating adjustments on many lathes, but I'm sure with some patience, you will get some good info here (maybe even from them).
 
ed4copies said:
Well, I'd say welcome, but you been here for a WHILE, I guess!!

Usually, I would address you by name, but it's not in your profile.

To answer your question, R, Did you LOCK the tailstock, after you moved it tothe headstock? Sometimes they will move when locked. IF you tried this, which direction is the "slop"?? Up and down or front to back? Is the Grizzly new or used and new to you? (Tells us more about the wear of the "ways" - the bars the whole thing moves on).

Since the forum will probably be very slow on Christmas eve, you COULD try searching "Lathe" and "adjust" - might get you some ideas. I'll be happy to help, if you continue to post AND tell me your first name!!!
Click to expand...

You can call me Bob:)

I did lock the tailstock down and it appears it's a tad higher than the headstock. It's brand new. It was a discontinued model, 12x20 model...this one doesn't have digital readouts. I've been lurking here for quite a while.
 
It's ALWAYS easier to RAISE the headstock than to LOWER the tailstock. That said, get yourself some shims, soda can pieces will work, and shim up the headstock. Put equal shims at all four corners. Do you have a small 6" metal ruler? If not, use something similar. Put your centers in the HS and TS and bring them about 1/4" apart and lock the TS. Hold the ruler flat in between and crank the tailstock until it hits the ruler. If the TOP of the ruler goes LEFT, the HS is too LOW so add shims. If it goes RIGHT the HS is too HIGH, remove shims and replace with thinner ones. Writing paper will work in a pinch. MERRY CHRISTMAS!:biggrin:
 
Rick is dead on - but that's not a surprise!!

Good news, As time wears your ways, you can drop the headstock down. So, you will be "on-center" forever.

Hey, NICE to meet you BOB!!!!! Post more often so we get to know you!!!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
 
one more suggestion as a shim for vary tiny adjustments is Aluminum foil. it is thinner still than soda can adn I think even thinner than copier paper.
 
Aluminum foil = 0.0005"
Newspaper = 0.003"
Copier paper = 0.004"
Beer can = 0.004" (who drinks soda.....bad for your teeth):wink:

More or less.

Getting the points of the spur center(HS) and the live center(TS) lined up is a first step; but if you move the TS away from the HS by 10-20 inches ant the points don't line up, you still have a problem. A better measure of the alignment of your lathe is to put a pen mandrel in the HS and see how well the tip of the live center lines up with the center hole in the end of the mandrel.

Think about this for a moment. Take two newly sharpened pencils and lay them on a table in line and tip to tip. This is the configuration you are trying to achieve with the HS and the TS of your lathe. The two pencils form an angle of exactly 180°.

Then move the eraser end of one of the pencils a little while the pencil points still touch. You might now have an angle of, say 170°. The bore of the HS and the TS do "NOT" line up; but the points still touch, perfectly. In this example, the angular error is in a horizontal plane; but you could have a similar error in a vertical plane as well. I hope you can see, from this example, that there is more to lathe alignment than just making the tips touch.

and it appears it's a tad higher than the headstock.
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Most wood lathes are not spot on and for most applications don't really need to be. A "tad" might be well within correct tolerances or it might not. Can you give us a better idea of how far "off" the points are?
 
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To continue Randy's point;

If your Headstock point is .003 LOWER than the tailstock when they are touching, and your ways are perfectly square to the headstock, the tailstock will REMAIN .003 lower as you travel away on the ways. SO, using a 10" mandrel for a 5" pen (pretty typical setup) you will have a 3 thousandths "drop" over the 10 inches. This all comes down to "imperceptible" on a pen - which was our original purpose. (Sometimes we forget this, as we entangle ourselves in the minutia).

Before you work real hard to make it perfect, insert a mandrel, lock it in place, turn it on. Now, take a marking pen and slowly come over the toolrest, till you TOUCH the mandrel. If the pen mark on the mandrel is very short, your lathe is off by enough to worry. IF you can't make a mark without making a ring around the lathe, GO TURN PENS!!! YOUR "PROBLEM" is insignificant.

Again, welcome to the "light" of IAP!!!, Bob!!!
 
Well here it is....today I called the place where my wife ordered the Grizzley from. The tailstock piece was 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch off. In talking with their customer service folks they said it shouldn't be off that far. I got authorization to send it back. I didn't listen to them when they wanted to replace it and instead am getting a refund.



Which brings me to this afternoon's fiasco. I forgot that today is the second busiest shopping day of the year. I traveled an hour to my closest wood workers shop and bought a Jet 1220vs. We pulled it out and checked the match up and it was perfect. The traffic getting to the shop made me want to commit suicide but I finally managed. Bought some other stuff while there too. Should have it all set up this weekend.


Thanks for the help. It was really disappointing to open that box and find the lathe that didn't work. Sometimes, trying to save a little money over the internet isn't actually the best solution. The guys at the shop were really helpful and friendly and made sure everything fit the way it was suppose to.
 
Glad to hear you now have a machine you are happy with!!

Just for future reference, an 1/8" to 1/4" mismatch like that is totally unacceptable. Can't imagine how one that far off even got out of the factory?? I wonder if it got damaged in shipping. Did you see any damage to the container??

Recently, I tried to get a tech at JET to offer me an opinion as to what the spec might be for their point match and he would never give me a firm and specific number. I'm thinking I would be unhappy with a 1mm mismatch and would probably accept anything better than 1/2mm. I wonder what others think out there.

Raising the HS or the TS with shims is not a difficult task and if either needed to be tilted in a vertical plane that would be fairly easy, too. The real problem arises if you need some adjustment in the horizontal plane. Because of the design of the lathe, any front to back or rotational movement in the horizontal plane would be quite difficult to achieve. I have always wanted to loosen the headstock bolts on my JET mini and see exactly how much movement was actually available for adjustment; but have been reluctant to do so since the alignment of my lathe is very good. I may yet get a wild hair and do it; but that is probably down the road a piece.:wink:
 
Randy_ said:
Recently, I tried to get a tech at JET to offer me an opinion as to what the spec might be for their point match and he would never give me a firm and specific number. I'm thinking I would be unhappy with a 1mm mismatch and would probably accept anything better than 1/2mm. I wonder what others think out there.
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Randy; For what it's worth; Most metalworking lathes come with an inspection sheet that details both the acceptable range of tolerances for various measurements, and the actual measurement for the specific lathe.
 
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This was quite informative. I have a grizzly lathe and the tailstock is off by just a little. As Ed says not enough to worry about. I have a shop full of grizzly equipment (more then I thought I had) and am pleased with all of them and find their customer service excellent. But as Randy said how could their quality control let a lathe that far off out the doors. You could see that far off with the naked eye without having to put HS to TS. And in comparing the lathes Bob you have a better lathe now. It is alot quieter then the grizzly I'm sure.
 
randyrls said:
Randy; For what it's worth; Most metalworking lathes come with an inspection sheet that details both the acceptable range of tolerances for various measurements, and the actual measurement for the specific lathe.
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to see such a sheet; but it would really only of limited help since I don't think it is applicable to wood lathes. I think this is one area where many people get messed up and have unrealistic expectations. A good engine lathe should be able to produce work accurate to 0.001" and maybe even closer. That kind of accuracy is not necessary for your normal or average wood turning projects and I seriously doubt that wood lathes are designed/manufactured to achieve those close tolerances. Someone who really wants that kind of accuracy should buy a metal lathe.​


Turning pens is not a "normal" wood turning activity and was certainly not an activity that wood lathes were designed for. I think we are asking more from our little mini wood lathes than they are designed to produce. If we do get a lathes that produces accuracies of a thousandth or thereabouts. I think we should be thankful for our good fortune; but if the lathe isn't quite that close, so be it.......you don't expect to get race car performance out of a Ford 150 either!!​
 
Checking Alignment

Over a long period of time I have found two things to quickly determine the alignment of my many and various lathes.

Using a morse two taper reamer I lightly clean the headstock and tailstock.

Using two dead centres also clean and kept for this purpose fit them in the head and tail stock.

Bring them almost together on the lathe, lock the tail stock, insert a thin feeler guage between the points as they gently meet, any variation in any direction tells the story immediately. Test accurate.

When I dedicated a lathe to pen turning I used the clean and lightly ream proceedure and using a collet type mandrel holder and only turning half a pen at a time, then locked the collet holder body in the head stock with the already provided 3/8 thread in it into the head stock. In the live centre with a removable insert I turned a brass sleeve so the end of the mandrel that had the thread cut of and faced is now a snug fit in the brass sleeve insert in the tail stock live centre by 3/8 of an inch. The blank is held by pressure from the tail stock and easily removed and replaced this way.

Two things years ago I felt were weaknesses in turning pens were alignment and using a live cente point in a recess in a mandrel together with two blanks at a time all of this on a 1/4 inch mandrel.

Have success and happiness in your turning this New Year everyone from Down Under where the weather is fine and although our real long drought has not broken December rain was great.

Regards Peter.
 
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