Stuff from China to cost more?

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DCBluesman

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Will kit and component prices start rising, perhaps out of control? Who knows, but this issue could dramatically impact our hobby as well as the cost of metal lathes and Harbor Freight inventory. Will you begin to stock up?



Andy Wong/Associated Press As appearing in Today's New York Times

Chinese leaders are engaged in a bitter and unusually public struggle over whether to allow the renminbi to rise against the dollar or to escalate further a war of words with the United States over currency values.


Zhou Xiaochuan, governor of the People's Bank of China, right, with Xie Xuren, China's finance minister, in Beijing.



The fight, mainly between the Chinese central bank and its Commerce Ministry, could decide the course of trade tensions between China and the United States. Many experts say they believe Beijing deliberately undervalues the renminbi, making Chinese exports more competitive on global markets and creating jobs in China at the expense of employment elsewhere.

The face-off began March 6, when the governor of the central bank stunned analysts by saying that the bank's policy of keeping the renminbi at a constant exchange rate against the dollar was a "special" response to the global financial crisis. The new description suggested to many economists that the current value of the renminbi was temporary and that the central banker, Zhou Xiaochuan, was preparing the Chinese public for a stronger renminbi.

But other Chinese officials, particularly at the Commerce Ministry, have fought back in the past two weeks, stoking nationalism and anti-American sentiment by declaring that China will not be told what to do by the United States.

The debate is far from academic. In the coming weeks, the administration of President Barack Obama faces a series of politically sensitive deadlines set by Congress to decide whether to continue negotiating with China over currency and trade issues or to take a more confrontational stance, like officially naming China a currency manipulator.

If it labels the country a currency manipulator, the administration will face further congressional pressure to impose punitive tariffs on many Chinese goods.

So far, China's media-savvy Commerce Ministry is trouncing the normally secretive central bank. Senior Commerce Ministry officials have spoken out every few days, saying that pressure to let the renminbi rise was "irrational."

Those comments have brought on a surge of anti-American sentiment in Internet chat rooms and daily headlines on the front pages of Chinese newspapers asserting that China must not "back down."

Borrowing a page from the playbook of some of the most sophisticated Western crisis management consultants, the ministry even sent the private cellphone numbers of eight Chinese academic experts on Chinese-American trade relations to reporters last week — although unlike Western consultants, the ministry did not ask or warn the academics before giving out their phone numbers.

Some Chinese economists outside the government have suggested in a gingerly fashion over the past year that China could find better uses for the hundreds of billions of dollars it spends buying U.S. Treasury bonds and other foreign reserves to keep the renminbi from rising against the dollar.

That investment in overseas bonds was equal to nearly a tenth of China's entire economic output last year, even though Treasury securities have a return of only 0.13 percent to 4.73 percent currently. If the renminbi does eventually appreciate, the value of China's huge foreign reserves will plunge in renminbi terms — a loss for which the central bank would most likely be blamed.

Maintaining the current level of the renminbi also means that the central bank cannot easily push up interest rates — a tactic countries normally use to battle inflation.

That may be necessary in China. Its economy is growing so fast, and China's international competitiveness is so strong, that inflation is starting to appear. Exporters have more orders than they can fill — although imports have been rising even faster, as Chinese companies have stockpiled commodities as a hedge against inflation. Export-oriented provinces in coastal China raised their minimum wages 20 percent last week in a desperate bid to attract more workers from the country's increasingly prosperous interior to run factory assembly lines.

These problems have made the central bank unenthusiastic about continuing to sell renminbi and buy foreign bonds so as to hold down the value of its currency, people close to the central bank said. But the bank has been reluctant to make its case in public, consistently rebuffing requests for interviews, and now may have missed its chance as the increasingly free Chinese business media have embraced the weak renminbi as a nationalistic symbol of Chinese sovereignty.

In many policy discussions between the United States and China over the past two decades, the Chinese government has seemed to maintain a single voice.

U.S. officials in a succession of administrations and Congresses have been less unified in their views.

But in the current debate, U.S. officials have been tightly disciplined — the Treasury, the Commerce Department and the office of the U.S. trade representative have said little. Chinese officials, on the other hand, have been vocal and less consistent.

"It seems like they are talking from different perspectives," said Li Wei, the director of the American studies department at the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation, speaking of the Chinese officials. He said he supported the Chinese government's overall stance of resisting American pressure.

In the United States, the Treasury — and often, only the Treasury secretary himself — comments on the dollar. That has helped limit sudden fluctuations in the dollar's value in currency markets.

But China has no such policy limiting which agencies or individuals can publicly address currency issues. For decades, currency policy has been the purview of the central bank, but the central bank is a politically weak institution. The People's Bank of China is just one of many economic policy ministries and even lacks independent authority over monetary policy, unlike the U.S. Federal Reserve.

Exporters in China are still upset after their overseas shipments fell early last year for the first time since China began opening up trade in the late 1970s — and the Commerce Ministry has long been close to the country's exporters.

Commerce Ministry officials say that they are following a broader trend in the Chinese government of greater responsiveness to the public. "Our ministry is doing a good job to be more open and more transparent — there is even an office in our ministry responsible for publicizing our policies," said Chen Rongkai, the ministry's division director for media.
 
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rjwolfe3

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This would only affect imports from China and not Taiwan, correct? So pen kits from Taiwan would still be the same price if it came down to it.
 

witz1976

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The other thing to consider is that the Chinese OWN us! All the borrowing that we do is from the Chinese. If the US decides to start thumping it's chest at the Chinese and throw tarriffs at it they will simply shut the doors on us and start asking for thier money back. This would throw us into the worse Depression since the Great Depression of the 30's.
 

DCBluesman

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I dunno, Rob. When I did some research a little over a year ago, I found that Taiwan outsourced a lot of components to factories on the Mainland. If that's the case, and the currencies are allowed to float, it seems like it could change all of the costs/prices. Perhaps some macro-economists can help put this into perspective.
 

workinforwood

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It will be good if they strengthen their dollar. We are printing money to the point where soon we'll be like mexico, hauling 20,000 p in a wheel barrel to buy a chocolate bar. I actually want china to do this so that maybe America will wake up to their ridiculous spending spree. It's going to require some real hard times for use to get our game faces back on. I will not be running out buying stuff for fear it will go up in price. I owe no money, except for my mortgage, and I have been paying double on that for several years now. This is how I counter the possible economic doom to come. Owe no money, have money in the bank to purchase things if you need them. Logical?
 

ed4copies

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It will be good if they strengthen their dollar. We are printing money to the point where soon we'll be like mexico, hauling 20,000 p in a wheel barrel to buy a chocolate bar. I actually want china to do this so that maybe America will wake up to their ridiculous spending spree. It's going to require some real hard times for use to get our game faces back on. I will not be running out buying stuff for fear it will go up in price. I owe no money, except for my mortgage, and I have been paying double on that for several years now. This is how I counter the possible economic doom to come. Owe no money, have money in the bank to purchase things if you need them. Logical?

YES and no.

Let's see, your savings account is reaping a huge interest rate, somewhere UNDER ONE percent per YEAR. Meanwhile, inflation will eat up 3-4% per year, so you will LOSE money at the rate of 2-3% per year.

AND those purchases, will be going up with inflation or even higher, if the commodities prices continue to rise. Since China is currently using a huge percentage of the world's copper and concrete..........................................

You get the picture??
 

VisExp

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YES and no.

Let's see, your savings account is reaping a huge interest rate, somewhere UNDER ONE percent per YEAR. Meanwhile, inflation will eat up 3-4% per year, so you will LOSE money at the rate of 2-3% per year.

AND those purchases, will be going up with inflation or even higher, if the commodities prices continue to rise. Since China is currently using a huge percentage of the world's copper and concrete..........................................

You get the picture??

Money in a savings account is basically spending money, not an investment.

I think Jeff's main point was that he is not in debt, with the exception of his mortgage, so he is not paying 16 to 18% interest rates on credit cards or car loans.

Although the interest rate earned in a savings account will barely keep up with inflation, it will still far out perform money "invested" with credit card companies.

Jeff listens to Dave Ramsey. He gets the picture :biggrin:

(Sorry Ed, you're not going to convince those who drunk the Kool Aid that being out of debt is a bad thing :) )
 

JimB

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YES and no.

Let's see, your savings account is reaping a huge interest rate, somewhere UNDER ONE percent per YEAR. Meanwhile, inflation will eat up 3-4% per year, so you will LOSE money at the rate of 2-3% per year.

AND those purchases, will be going up with inflation or even higher, if the commodities prices continue to rise. Since China is currently using a huge percentage of the world's copper and concrete..........................................

You get the picture??

This is true for regular saving and checking accounts but if you are willing to spend a few minutes doing your homework you can find FDIC insured savings rates (CD or special savings accounts) that will exceed inflation even after income taxes. Of course this will not work for your daily spending cash that you need to pay your bills but if you have cash you do not need immediate access to and are willing to move it to another financial institution you can find better rates.
 

ed4copies

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OR you could use bonds, ETF's, Mutual funds, etc.

Yes, there are a multitude of ways to attempt to beat inflation (TIPS come to mind). But the strategy of holding cash in a bank is unlikely to be one.

(In 2008 it would have been a "Genius" idea!!)
 

Lenny

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Many years ago I heard a financial advisor on tv recommend that people put their money in cd's. So I did! :wink:
Just three years later, my 5 disc changer died,:eek: so now I have a huge collection that I listen to in my truck. Don't see how it's going to help me but then maybe I can fall back on my collection of over 400 lp records. :biggrin::cool:
 

sbell111

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The other thing to consider is that the Chinese OWN us! All the borrowing that we do is from the Chinese. If the US decides to start thumping it's chest at the Chinese and throw tarriffs at it they will simply shut the doors on us and start asking for thier money back. This would throw us into the worse Depression since the Great Depression of the 30's.
Two thoughts:

First, the Chinese want us to buy their stuff. They aren't going to implement monetary policy that stops this from happening.

Second, it's not as if they could just call us up on the phone and tell us that they want all their money back.

There are many ways that the lender can become slave to the borrower.
 
D

DavidA

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Debt service and the GDP.

The CBO released a report today that estimates at the current rate of growth. :frown:The national debt in 20 years will require 90% of the GDP to pay the interest only. Do you see a civil war if things don't change!:bulgy-eyes:

For Thought Only
DavidA
 

bitshird

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The Chinese people have had a taste of ownership, things like cars, Televisions, Computers Music, and they like it, even though China is the largest country in the world and actually has a growing economy (thank you uncle Sam) unfortunately nearly all the free world has built china into the financial power it is, so do we honestly think they are going to cut the bottom of their own pocket books. I'm no financial genius, but it sound to me like they might be wanting to get a bit more for their shoddy merchandise while they can, who knows maybe they'll start outsourcing work to the USA.
 

witz1976

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Two thoughts:

First, the Chinese want us to buy their stuff. They aren't going to implement monetary policy that stops this from happening.

Second, it's not as if they could just call us up on the phone and tell us that they want all their money back.

There are many ways that the lender can become slave to the borrower.

Yes the Chinese wants us to buy their stuff and lets face it, we want to buy their stuff too. However if we (the Government) apply tariffs to make their stuff more expensive for us to purchase we would go to the next cheapest source...like typical Americans.

So if they are going to lose our money that way, yes they can simply call us up for asking for their money. This would crash our credit rating causing our economy to crumble. True they may lose some money, but in the end WE would suffer much much more.

Hence why most people are getting quite irate about the spending policies of our government.:mad::mad:
 
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