Strait Dope on Nibs...

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Ed,
A good start would be to make a few pens and post pictures on this web site. Ask for opinions of your work. You'll get them, good and bad. Take that and make more pens. Keep improving and add your talent in musical instrument repair and who knows.....

If your repair work is on metal instruments you have a lot of tools and materials that others here don't have. Go for it, we all will look forward to seeing your work.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think you will find a good deal of help here if you just take it easy. You don't catch a rabbit by running across the field, you sneak up on it and grab it's ears.

 

[wudwrkr]

Mac,
I second your opinion. I was in the process of writing the same thing when your post came in. There is not much more advice/criticism/help/badgering [] that this group can give until you show us some of the work you've done. I'm sure most of us look forward to seeing these $500 pens []

 

[dfurlano]

I didn't read the whole thread but I am sure all is good. I look forward to seeing some photos.

 

[Old Griz]

OK Ed, you want to discuss pen and pen making in general and learn to do it.. this is the place..
But like the rest of us you need to crawl before you learn to walk...
Start off slow, learn to use your tools and machines and show us some work... we will critique it... and let me warn you.. we do not pull punches, not for newbies or the experienced turners.. If we see something that is not right, you will be told, you will also get suggestions on how to improve your work.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you have a metal lathe. That is not the best thing to use for pen turning with hand tools. It can be done, but a decent wood lathe is your best bet... in the way of a mini lathe I recommend a Jet 1014VS...

 

[btboone]

Although having a metal lathe means you can make your own threads, and that can help differentiate your pens from the crowd. As it's been said before, it will take something different, very high quality, and marketing to the right folks to be able to pull it off.

 

[terrymiller]

It seems to me that I have read in this forum that people have gotten that much and more for pens. While this gentleman may be new to the site or turning you can't knock him for wanting to use the best items for his pens. Dont we all have the hopes of making pens in that price range. Why dont you all quite bashing the guy and help him further his skills so he can achieve the price and product that he wants. Given his past experience with repairing instruments he may be able to offer a lot of insight to different finishes he has used in the past.

 

[rwbirt02]

Ok, so it seems we're off to a better start now...wonderful. I understand the pros/cons of using a metal lathe to turn, but it's what I have. As far as metal lathes are concerned it's not even a great lathe. I would love to have a wood lathe as well, but I will have to turn out a few pens before I can tell my wife I need another lathe...yes I have a boss too.Javascript:insertsmilie('[^]') To be completely honest with enyone here-that's all I have; my lathe and allot of what I would consider to be outstanding ideas for pens. I'm still in the process of aqquiring all the tooling, materials, and supplies I will need to start turning. Hence I came to this forum to get the best advice I could in regard to kits, nibs, etc.

And although I have yet to turn my first pen, I'm confident I will be able to turn pens that are of high quality and will please clients. Thanks again for all the advice, and when I have turned that first pen...I would be glad to post it and recieve feedback.

Also, I was wondering in regard to feeders...would it be possible to use a milling or CNC machine to create a feeder out of a better material than plastic? Yes, I know how small and intricate feeders are-but maybe even a feeder that is simplified in some way...not so many "fins" in it-I dont' know...something. In my mind I see this for a really outstanding pen...possibly it's been done already, but I haven't seen it yet-even from the majors. The pen as follows...cigar-black blank; material could be ebonite, grenadilla, acrylic, celluloid...take your pick. Solid sterling hardware...and a 14kt nib. This pen is likely to have been turned already...but...what if you can fabricate a feeder out of sterling as well. A pen with the additional weight of a sterling feeder may even help out any balance issues as were mentioned earlier in the thread. Let alone the asthetics of a feeder that is made from a material other than just plastic. As I had mentioned before some possible materials for feeders could be brass(buffed to a high lustre with red rouge of course) alluminum, bronze, copper, sterling silver, even titanium...with the best nib avaliable. Obviously this is an amibitious undertaking, but I find it hard to believe that such a feeder couldn't be fabricated by someone. I understand that the barrel the feeder and nib are held in would most likely remain plastic on the inside, but never the less...seeing that sterling silver feeder hanging out under a really nice nib would be in my opinion pretty damn sexy.

Feedback is welcome; thanks again.

 

[sptfr43]

I will echo what has has been said already,if you are looking for advice in the area of machining somthing you need to speak with Bruce (btboone) he seems to be the guy to go to judging from the work he has shown off here.

 

[DCBluesman]

Ed - Your idea of a metal feed sounds good in theory, but in practice they don't work. The ink will simply bead on the fins and the pen will skip badly. That's part of the problem with plastic feeds as well. Truly you will be well-served to get some books on fountain pens and read. It will save you countless hours of frustration if you get the basics in hand before you go off chasing a thought which has already been shown to be unworkable. Besides Amazon, you might try some of the books that The Fountain Pen Hospital sells.

 

[btboone]

You can make the barrel from any of those materials. The feed stays plastic and screws in. Here's a titanium one.

<br />

 

[rwbirt02]

Ok then, I'm off to the library for further research-thanks again. By the way Bruce...spectacular work.

 

[Phil Joines]

You can turn wood on a metal lathe. Look around to find a banjo and tool rest to fit. Take the cross slide off, put the banjo on and have at it. Taig makes a set for their mini metal lathe and I have an antique Atlas wood/metal combo so it does work. Clean all the chips out and oil it each time you finish to prevent rust. You'll probably want to run it near it's maximum RPM.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

A pen feed needs be altered or tweaked after it is installed in the pen feed section. That is why they are made of the materials that they are made of, not metal. The common method is to stick the end of the feed section in hot water (the pros use a flame from a alcohol lamp, but they are pros), bend it to increase or decrease the ink flow, then put it under cold water quickly while holding it in the conditon that you are seeking. That "sets" the material in that geometry and it will stay there.

You can't do that with metal, not to mention the other issues of metal as outlined above.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Ed, If you are still following this thread, you might want to look at somethng. Go to the Individual Classified forum and read the post by William. He is selling his entire pen making shop. You can get a good idea what it takes to make pens.

 

[wdcav1952]

Originally posted by Thumbs
<br /><b>Snobs?</b> Who'd a thunk it?[:0][]

But that aside:

Come on you guys! Didn't we have some clowns plow through this site several times last month stirring up noise and trouble? Does the word gullible mean anything to you? When some yahoo from another site stirs up something nonsensical for their amusement we continually fall for it. [] The original post here was patent nonsense and needed no response and got little. But most fisherman know you have to present the bait with a little extra sometimes to get that first bite. So get your pal to "chum" the waters.... Sometimes it causes a feeding frenzy, huh? Maybe that's why the term "trolling" comes up in regard to this on occasion!

I'm sure some with whom we have been acquainted here are sitting on the floor laughing their <b>AO</b>, too, every time we fall for this <b>BS</b>!

The particular problem is that we do have to resign ourselves to the fact that if we want to help the newbies and each other, we are going to be easy prey to the sickos who wish to take advantage of others. It would be worse to become as cynical and as sick as those who think it is great sport to embarrass and harass people only trying to help someone. [V] Whether they think we have a worthy contribution or not, we have to remember why we joined this group. I think most of us joined to share and partake of the knowledge available here. Even if we had little or nothing to contribute or still have little or nothing to contribute, we have shared as best we can and still should continue to do so regardless of the trolls and clowns among us......[)][]

What on Earth are you talking about??

 

[Thumbs]

Well, William, if you're not just trolling and really want to know just give me a call.

 

[rtjw]

I'll take offense to that one Bob.

 

[rwbirt02]

Sounds like I still have some reading to do on the mechaincs of fountain pens...(eating humble pie). Up to this point my mind has been set on design, quality, materials, and asthetics...all important factors in making that great pen; but if the ink don't run right...

As far as tooling and machines...I have the lathe, a drill press, and some other odds&ends tooling. So I still need to invest in mandrels, mandrel shafts, bushings, chisels, bushings(most of which I understand can be bought @ discount with said kit), kits, blanks, some abrasives, and finishes. Still quite a bit on the list, but some items aren't too expensive. I think I can get my foot in the door for somewhere between $300 to $500 based on what I have already. Saving those pennies, doing more research on FP mechanics, and drawing/designing more pens on paper, and in my mind.

Hasta Luego

 

[Thumbs]

Well, Johnny, since William never responded in any manner you can draw any conclusion or offense you want. Although, I'm wondering why you are considering it any of your business. If you didn't send anyone to this site, why should you be concerned. If you did and thereby wish to take offense, be my guest.

Ed, if my first post in this thread was a misjudgement of you, my apology. No one else here is entitled to one that I can see.

 

[rtjw]

Originally posted by Thumbs
<br />Well, Johnny, since William never responded in any manner you can draw any conclusion or offense you want. Although, I'm wondering why you are considering it any of your business. If you didn't send anyone to this site, why should you be concerned. If you did and thereby wish to take offense, be my guest.

Ed, if my first post in this thread was a misjudgement of you, my apology. No one else here is entitled to one that I can see.

To quote a friend:

*click*

 

[Thumbs]

Awww, Johnny, How could you say such a *click* thing?[][][][]

Friend? Who? Yours or mine?[][][][]

 

[kgwaugh]

Edit: No question that I meant to address this to Ed...Don't know how I got William in here...

William, based on your success with instrument building, etc., you undoubtedly have a website, fotos, etc of your past work. How about posting some url's where we can see the high level of your work---other than BT Boone, we don't get to see much high quality, jewelery-level work around here!

Lots of great wood and plastics turning, laminations, engraving, etc., but it would be interesting to see the nature of your work!!

TIA,

Gene

 

[gerryr]

Gene, actually his name is Ed and he doesn't build instruments, he repairs them and that's a significant difference. I own several vintage trumpets and flugelhorns and know from sad experience that not all instrument repair people are equal. This is not meant to disparage his work, but there are only four people in the country that I will let touch one of my horns for anything but the simplest of repairs, and most of those I can do myself. But, I would also like to see some of his work. You never know, maybe my list of quality repair people might increase by one.

 

[Skye]

Originally posted by gerryr
<br />Gene, actually his name is Ed and he doesn't build instruments, he repairs them and that's a <b>significant difference</b>. I own several vintage trumpets and flugelhorns and know from <b>sad</b> experience that <b>not all instrument repair people are equal</b>. This is not meant to disparage his work, <b>but</b> there are only four people in the country that I will let touch one of my horns for anything but the simplest of repairs, and most of those I can do myself. But, I would also like to see some of his work. <b>You never know</b>, maybe my list of quality repair people might increase by one.

To me, that whole paragraph seems like your questioning his ability. If you don’t believe he can turn a high dollar pen, just say it.

Those that build and those that repair are not the same. So, I take it you mean that those that repair are less skilled than those that build.

You know from disappointment that there are bad repairmen out there. Why would you even mention this unless you're questioning his abilities?

If don’t mean to disparage his work, there's no need for a "but" and then throw in a comment how out of the thousands out there, you only trust 4. Basically, you’re saying “Odds are, you’re not up to snuff either.†Sounds harsh, but considering how your approval rating is probably less than 1% of the repairmen in the entire US, it’s true.

“Look, I’m not saying you don’t have a cute baby, <b>but</b> there are only 4 kids in the country I think are cute.†Face it, I’m saying the kid aint cute.

You never know. People who are giving the benefit of the doubt don’t use the phrase “You never knowâ€. People that are hoping for something they deem unlikely use that phase.

If you doubt the guy, just say it. It’s annoying to watch this tip-toe show.

 

[wdcav1952]

Gene,

I don't think you meant me when you made your request for web site, etc. The only "instruments" I have ever made were for writing, some of which I have posted here.

Thumbs,

I waited an hour for your private Black Helicopter, "Conspiracy Theory One" to pick me up last night, and gave up and went to bed. Maybe explain your theory here for everyone to read?

 

[gerryr]

Skye, I find your posts annoying.

 

[Skye]

The truth often hurts.

Buck up, little camper.

 

[gerryr]

You said it sonny boy.

 

[Thumbs]

Well, wdcav1952, aren't you the bold one as ever <u>in type and behind someone's back........</u> Some things never change. I had hopes you might mature and act like a man someday. My mistake, again.......[V]

Anytime you wish to visit to apologize, or take exception with what I have said, you're welcome to visit even if only for a short time.

 

[rtjw]

Thumbs, I asked for an explanation as well. Would you care to clarify your statement.

 

[wdcav1952]

Originally posted by Thumbs
<br />Well, wdcav1952, aren't you the bold one as ever <u>in type and behind someone's back........</u> Some things never change. I had hopes you might mature and act like a man someday. My mistake, again.......[V]

Anytime you wish to visit to apologize, or take exception with what I have said, you're welcome to visit even if only for a short time.

Thumbs,

You flatly accused a sister site of manufacturing an identity just to cause problems at the IAP. I am a proud, <u>contributing</u> member of both sites and I take exception to your accusation as being totally assinine without some modicum of proof. I do not wish proof on a personal basis; I want you to put up or shut up here on the site. If calling me names gives you some measure of personal satisfaction, I can deal with that fact without being offended.

Again, if you have proof of your accusation, do as you did with the original accusation, make it public here on the same site. If you don't have any proof, a retraction may be in order.

 

[Old Griz]

Bob, I have to agree with William....
I am also a proud member of both sites.... and I very much doubt that the original message in this thread was started from the other site..
There is a very good working relationship between the two sites that has taken a bit of time and effort on the side of both owners....
I am curious as to why you feel the need to cause dissention between the sites...
IF you have proof post it and it will be dealt with... IF NOT then please do not continue this line of accusations.

 

[Thumbs]

Boy! I sure have a difficult time following whatever you boys use for logic. No where in my post did I name or accuse any particular one or site about what has happened here several times in the recent past. If you wish to wear blinders, do so. I made an observation about some recent events and of some people's behavior. If that strikes some tender or guilty nerves, too bad.

This was nothing personal until wdcav1952 made it so. Then Johnny jumps in. Et Tu, Old Griz? I will not be made anyone's scape goat because I dare voice my opinion nor will I yield to the screams of harpies for the sake of "political correctness." If I offended you, I didn't originally mean to. But, now, I don't particularly care as reason seems to mean so little here in this "mob" mentality.

Have it any way you wish. Read whatever you wish into what I say. I've seen you twist my words and other's words to suit. Do as you will; I expect no good will, logic, or common decency of you.

I doubt there is any more I could say that you would understand or give even a reasonable hearing to so say on and do your worst I am done with this and you.

 

[wdcav1952]

Originally posted by Thumbs
<br /><b>Snobs?</b> Who'd a thunk it?[:0][]

But that aside:

Come on you guys! Didn't we have some clowns plow through this site several times last month stirring up noise and trouble? Does the word gullible mean anything to you? When some yahoo from another site stirs up something nonsensical for their amusement we continually fall for it. [] The original post here was patent nonsense and needed no response and got little. But most fisherman know you have to present the bait with a little extra sometimes to get that first bite. So get your pal to "chum" the waters.... Sometimes it causes a feeding frenzy, huh? Maybe that's why the term "trolling" comes up in regard to this on occasion!

I'm sure some with whom we have been acquainted here are sitting on the floor laughing their <b>AO</b>, too, every time we fall for this <b>BS</b>!

The particular problem is that we do have to resign ourselves to the fact that if we want to help the newbies and each other, we are going to be easy prey to the sickos who wish to take advantage of others. It would be worse to become as cynical and as sick as those who think it is great sport to embarrass and harass people only trying to help someone. [V] Whether they think we have a worthy contribution or not, we have to remember why we joined this group. I think most of us joined to share and partake of the knowledge available here. Even if we had little or nothing to contribute or still have little or nothing to contribute, we have shared as best we can and still should continue to do so regardless of the trolls and clowns among us......[)][]

After re-reading this post, I now understand why you have trouble understanding what others use for logic. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

 

[TerryBlanchard]

I have found the best fountain pen so far is the Jr Gentleman. My wife and I both write with fountain pens and used cross prior to me turning. The JR Gentleman is the best I have found. The ElGrande dries out in a couple of adys ant the JR stays good for a long period of time.

 

[DCBluesman]

Does anyone know if you can turn a perfume atomizer from a gherkin? [8D]

 

[woodpens]

Originally posted by TerryBlanchard
<br />I have found the best fountain pen so far is the Jr Gentleman. My wife and I both write with fountain pens and used cross prior to me turning. The JR Gentleman is the best I have found. The ElGrande dries out in a couple of adys ant the JR stays good for a long period of time.

Have you tried any Junior Statesman pens yet? They are very much like the Jr. Gent, but a little fancier. They are my current favorite, and they do command a higher price in online sales.

 

[gerryr]

Lou, yes it can be done and you don't even have to buy any perfume for it.[]

 

[Charles]

Well, all of the above was fasinating reading, Whew! Also, what other site is griz talking about? I love turning and did not know of a second source for sharing information. Sorry if this wasn't part of the original thread. Just interested.

 

[Skye]

Originally posted by Charles
<br />Well, all of the above was fasinating reading, Whew! Also, what other site is griz talking about? I love turning and did not know of a second source for sharing information. Sorry if this wasn't part of the original thread. Just interested.

http://www.thepenshop.net

That's the second home to quite a few IAP people.