stabilizing tutorial?

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richstick1

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Hi all, I'm interested in the stabilization process - it seems that you can use the HF pot for both casting and stabilization. I'm not interested in casting at this point - and I can't seem to find any good info on stabilizing. Does anyone have a link or some additional info they could throw my way on stabilizing your own wood using the HF pot system? Thanks!!

Rich
 
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I used polyurethane and let it dry for a week and it was still wet inside. I let it dry another week and could finally finish it. Minwax wood hardener works better as it dries overnight. I've tried just about everything. Nelsonite, Polycryl, Polyacrylic, 50/50 polyurethane and thinner, Thompson water seal etc. The Nelsonite and Polycryl flew apart milling the ends. I would go with the Minwax Wood Hardener. It dries quickest. The people that stabilize professionally guard their formula with their life, so don't expect to stabilize at their level unless you stumble across a mixture that stabilizes like the professionals. If anyone here has stumbled across the secret formula, they’re not telling.[8D]
 
Tim - did you ever try spar (marine) varnish? I'm looking at it for stabilizing fishing rod reelseats and grips, so I'd like an outdoor friendly material - I'm thinking spar would be great in this application. Then again, for the quantity I'll be doing, I'll probably end up just shipping them out to be done. It'd be so much more fun to do it myself though :-)
 
The Minwax wood hardner works best on really punky wood and on cross-cut (X-cut) pen blanks. For the crosscut blanks I lay the blanks (3-4 at a time) with the end grain facing up in a plastic tray. I pour some wood hardener on the blanks wait about 5 seconds then quickly turn the blank to ensure all 4 sides are coated. The cross-cut blanks immediately soak in the wood hardner. Note: Make sure you shake the hardener prior to use, do not pour all the wood hardner in a try and try to soak a lot of blanks. The acetone (not sure if its acetone) evaporates quickly and you will end up with a thick sludge that will coat the blanks but not penetrate the fibers. Also, cap the hardener every time you pour; if you leave the cap off the hardener will thicken making it harder to soak in the wood.
 
I have not tried spar varnish. I also have not tried the Plexi-acetone mixture. I have read about the plexi mixture and have heard that there has been some success. It's just how much plexi do you put into the acetone? I also saw where people ask how much plexi to use and the answer usually is "until the consistency is similar to the polyurethane". The next thing is, where do you get the plexi? I saw that alamocdc and swirlman were either trying or using the plexi mixture. Maybe they can chime in with recipes or process. I want to give it a try, it’s just that it seems so hit and miss with how much plexi to put into acetone.

The Minwax Wood hardener blank was brittle, and darkened, however it did not fall apart on me. Maybe some sort of mixture between polyurethane and wood hardener would work good too. The polyurethane turned very smooth, however was darkened slightly. I want to give the Nelsonite and Polycryl another shot. I just got more cross cut spalted maple in to start more tests. I have been using only that blank, so as to keep the tests consistent.

The one thing I have noticed is that no matter what you use, you still have to soak some CA in at the end to really stabilize the end product and prepare for the CA finish. As you do this the spalting still bleeds a little.
 
Tanner,

Try going to goodwill and get a cheap toaster over. I got one for $5 that is not pretty but it works great. When I use polyurethane I place the blanks in the toaster over on low for a number of hours. It will make them set nicely.
 
The "proprietary" formulas used are the money making lifeblood for the professional stabilizer. Also, the equipment they are using is quite expensive - a vapor pump is VERY expensive.

Try looking at some of the luthier sites online. One of them has a great picture of the companies equipment ... I don't have the URL right now, but I will try to find it and repost it for the readership here. From what I remember they use an autoclave - a big one too - and have a vapor pump to completely remove ALL moisture. They WILL NOT even discuss any of the chemicals they use - I know because I called them a bit back to see if I was on the right track when I was researching and developing my own method.

I use a solution of dissolved CLEAN white styrofoam in MEK (Methol Ethyl Keytone) until the MEK will not dissolve any more. The wood is then placed under a low vacuum (5 - 10 inches of mercury) for a minute or two, released and allowed to soak a bit, then vacuumed again. Eventually the wood sinks and will not absorb any more. After removal from the solution, the stuff dries very quickly. Friction finishes work very well for me after this treatment.

Look for the many ideas on this subject in the Forum and read them all. Hope this doesn't add to much to the confusion ...[:D]
 
I was researching this a while back and had decided try CPES clear penetrating epoxy sealer. This stuff is used in the marine industry to stabilize punky wood on boats. The articles that I read said you could make your own by thinning down epoxy with either xylene or acetone. The more you thin the stuff the longer the shelf life and better the penetration. The only draw back was the longest life of the stuff was about 72 hours once the epoxy was mixed. If you want more info do a search on CPES and you will find sme but not a whole lot.
 
Originally posted by Fred_erick
<br />The "proprietary" formulas used are the money making lifeblood for the professional stabilizer. Also, the equipment they are using is quite expensive - a vapor pump is VERY expensive.

SNIP

Look for the many ideas on this subject in the Forum and read them all. Hope this doesn't add to much to the confusion ...[:D]
Click to expand...

I believe the chemical used in some commercial stabilizing is Resinol 90C. But my old brain could be a'might confused.

http://automotive.henkel.com/Sites/Search.htm?q=resinol&page=0

3 year old article
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=270155&highlight=stabilization

.
 
So, who's going to do the group buy for the Resinol 90C? 4 gallons at $300 is steep, but if we broke it down to quarts... it would only be $25 a quart. just need 12 people... anyone?
 
Originally posted by mavrick1903
<br />So, who's going to do the group buy for the Resinol 90C? 4 gallons at $300 is steep, but if we broke it down to quarts... it would only be $25 a quart. just need 12 people... anyone?
Click to expand...

I'll go in for a quart of Resinol.
Has anyone tried Acryloid or Nelsonite? I also am trying to find info on Resolute, but as yet cannot find any info at all. Too many products branded Resolute I guess!

Lynn
 
There many ways to stabilize wood and each has its own beneifits. Since I do other types of woodworking besides pen turning and watching the pocket book, I chose the Minwax Wood Hardner route to stabilize my wood. I soak the pre drilled blanks for 24 hours in the hardner and then air dry the blanks for about 48-72 hours. Yes sometimes I need to redrill the tube holes. Its a quick and easy way and I have had no problems with the finished pens. [:D]
 
Originally posted by mavrick1903
<br />So, who's going to do the group buy for the Resinol 90C? 4 gallons at $300 is steep, but if we broke it down to quarts... it would only be $25 a quart. just need 12 people... anyone?
Click to expand...

I did a lot of research on Resinol 90C about a year ago and was very close to buying some. In the end I could not swing the money and storage for the minimum purchase amount. You have to buy directly from Loctite and deal with one of there reps, some will talk to you some wont.

They use this a lot in the powered metals industry among others. I also found someone who had used it on dinosaur bones.

From what I have found I think Resinol 90C would work great for wood stabilization.

One thing to keep in mind is it does have a shelve life, I think it was 3-6 months, and it does have to be keep cool at all times to extend the life. You soak and vac/pressurize the wood and then heat it in and oven to somewhere over 200 degrees to set the epoxy.

I would be interested in a group buy if people were interested.

Scott
 
I would be in for two quarts! I got me a new gallon pickle jar just asking to be used for something.[:p][B)][:p] I have about 50 blanks I need to stabilize and am about ready to send them out.

Another question. Why couldn't you use PR? Is it to thick? I was thinking about just adding less catalyst and pulling it under a vacumm and then dropping it in an oven to help set it.
 
Speaking of Nelsonite, I found some info that is of interest. Also, if we can't get enough interest to group buy the Resional, maybe this will be worth considering.

http://cuecomponents.com/nelsonite.html

Lynn
 
I have been reading some other forums, and have found a few people who have claimed they have/do use Resinol 90C. However, when asked specific questions about the Resinol they stop responding or won't answer for some reason.

Has anyone here on this forum used Resinol 90C for any purpose, wood stabalising or to seal porosity in something else?
 
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