Stabilizing and Finishes

[leehljp]

I originally had the pict below in the post "To Shine or Not To Shine." I realized that this pict could have been confusing because the other pict dealt with "shine and "mat" finish.

The picture below and this subject deals with Stabilizing blanks as it relates to finish. I wanted to know if different stabilizing agents would produce different tones, hues, warmth or whatever when finished. (This probably should be in the Stabilizing forum, but it has already been posted and My intent was how it affects finish.)

I am well aware of the differences in the warmth that oil based polyurethane (mixed 50/50 with mineral spirits) gives oak versus water based poly. My mom loved the "no fumes" of the water based poly on an oak dresser that I refinished in 2000 but didn't think it had the "warmth" of the oil based poly.

With that in my mind, and knowing that BLO and other oils do "pop" the grain versus when a straight CA is applied, I decided to see if there was a difference in the tone/warmth of (oil based) polyurethane versus acetone desolved polyacrylate plastic as a stabilizing agent.

The polyurethane cured blank is the first one on the left. It has a barely more reddish (warmth) tone but almost indistinguishable from the acetone/acryl stabilized blanks. However, there is one distinguishing feature of the polyurethane - that pen has much more and deeper chatoyance. It becomes more obvious outside and in bright lights.

While the polyurethane produced more chatoyance, it did not produce as much difference in tone or warmth as I would have thought.

The pen in the middle and on the right are acetone/acrylic stabilized.

ON this same subject: I also stabilized some Holly and some bloodwood in the oil based polyurethane; then stabilized another set of blanks of the same wood in the acetone/acryl solution.

OBP=Oil Based Polyurethane.
The OBP on the holly and bloodwood produced a slighter darker blank. I was surprised that after a week of curing the holly looked just like the acetone/acryl. I thought it would be more "aged" looking, especially since it looked like very old ivory when it was freshly taken out of the vac/pressure pot.

The Acetone/Acrylic (A/A) stabilized blanks revealed an unusual side effect too. ON the Holly, it looked normal. My original intent in buying a vac/pressure pot was to stabilize holly to prevent it from getting bleed over from other woods when segmenting and finishing. The A/A holly looks normal and turns fine.

A slight problem came about with the bloodwood and A/A. The bloodwood turned the A/A almost blood colored! Well duh! It also bleached it some. I showed my wife two bloodwood blanks, one from A/A and one from OBP and she immediately noticed the differences. The A/A stabilized bloodwood was/is lighter in color, even three weeks after I stabilized it. The OBP bloodwood still is darker. You can see the differences between them and a non-stabilized bloodwood.

The whole point of this experiment was to try and figure out the different stabilizing mediums have on different wood and how the effect the outcome in terms of color or warmth. I also want to lower the bleed over possibilites when segmenting wood.

My results are not scientific but I hope it spurs someone to take this to another level.

 

[Fred]

Greetings, Hank.

EXCELLENT article. I have read it several times just to soak up how much effort you have spent of making the tests and then writing the article. I would imagine that considerable effort on your part has been spent to get to the point of actually writing the article.

I believe many, many, many "At-A-Boys" are necessary at this time.

Now, may I suggest one other combination of stabilization compounds for you to try. Try my mix and see what you think... Dissolve to a super saturated solution as much CLEAN, white styrofoam in a glass vessel using Methyl Ethyl Keytone (MEK) as you can get the MEK to dissolve. Then predrill several blanks with smaller sized bits any blanks you want to test. Pre-drilling allows the mixture to be absorbed completely into the blank in less time. The smaller bit size allows you to drill to the proper size later. Then submerge the blanks in the glass vessel, put this into another larger plastic bucket that fits in the HF pot. This will catch any boiling over of the MEK and possible damage to the HF pot. I find that a 3 gallon ice cream container works great AFTER the ice cream has been eaten of course. Slowly pull a 10-15 pound vacuum for several minutes and let the pot rest. Them pull another vacuum until the wood sinks. You are done.

Remove the wood, stand on paper to drain, and let them dry. Usually an hour is sufficient for mine to dry if it is warm. Then re-drill, mount tubes, and finish as usual. I do not cut my blanks to size until I am finished with the processes and ready to re-drill for the brass tubes.

I am also using a medium CA glue finish that sets for 15-30, then light sanding until I am satisfied. THEN, I use Mylands Deep Friction Polish applied slowly at around 135 RPM's. I let this set up for a minute or so, then polish at 2500-3000 RPM's. If necessary I will add additional layers of polish. Stand back as it is definitely shiny as glass and hard to! When finished a layer of Carnuba wax is added to aid in 'fingerprint' control

Let me know what you think! []

 

[leehljp]

Thanks Fred. I will try the MEK, IF I can find it. It seems like I have seen it somewhere over here but can't remember where. My major population area is about 40 miles by 80 miles and contains 10 million. I have been to a lot places, home centers and lumber and paint shops. I _have_ seen it but can't remember where. [] I also think they have it in another name, but I just need to figure that out.

I tried desolving styrofoam in some Japanese mineral spirits - it worked ok but the stabilization didn't seem to take. It was almost like using mineral spirits only. Some of the melted styrofoam gummed up on the outside and stayed gummy for a while. You have inspired me to try the MEK.

As to a pot boiling over - I have a Japanese "Tempura" pot (two in fact) that I removed the handles and they fit just right inside pressure pot. They are about 8 inches diameter and 4 inches deep and have a kind of high domed top with a hole in the center. So far, it has done well for containing foaming! I thought about how beneficial it would be for IAP members but the cost of sending would be more than the cost of buying.

 

[Fred]

Lee, so far the MEK has definitely held the styrofoam in suspension a lot longer than any other type of solvent I tried. I found mine in a professional paint supply store. The cans sold in Home Depot are way too expensive since a gallon or so is what I always ended up needing for my efforts.

Just avoid contact with your skin as this MEK is very bad for the human skin ... and the vapors as well! Very dangerous to breath any of it at all. [}]

 

[leehljp]

Thanks for this extra bit of information. I will be checking as I go out on my rounds next week.

 

[DocRon]

Hank
MEK = methyl ethyl ketone = 2-butanone. You might find it under any of these, but MEK is by far the most common name.
Ron