Squaring issues

[RockandCole]

I decided to brave the 7 degree garage today in hopes of turning a pen after work. I had two ready to go, the first a colorgrain from PSI. I put my squaring jig in my dewalt and squared the first one, and then picked up the other half and as soon as I pulled the trigger the piece shattered. I thought maybe it was dull or gunked up, but neither was the case. I grabbed my other blanks, these olivewood, and sure enough, as soon as I started the drill, I was holding a shattered piece of wood. Am I doing something wrong, or is this just part of the game?

 

[campzeke]

Could the 7 degree temp have something to do with it ???? I can see a wood blank cracking or splitting if something is wrong but shattering ??? What type of squaring jig are you using?

 

[ed4copies]

IF you have to turn in the garage, get a torpedo heater and get the ambient temp up to at least 50 degrees.

CAN you make pens in bitter cold--probably. WHY??
Freezing your butt is not fun!! And the materials you work with will object!! Not to mention your hands will be numb about half way through the first pen--

As a "newbee", you will ruin plenty of blanks--we all did--but give yourself a fighting chance!! At least "human" weather--not polar bear!!

From the sunny southeast!!! Corner of Wisconsin---Lake effect COLD!!

 

[Skie_M]

Uhh ... might I assume that you are using the carbide squaring jig? These have only 2 cutting heads, and damaging blanks is a known issue ...

The other major problem is that those blanks were FROZEN.


If you're gonna be working in those temperatures, keep the materials' weaknesses in mind ... CA (superglue) doesn't like temperature extremes ... hot (think too hot to hold) is bad ... melts the acrylic (cyano-acrylate, creates an acrylic when cured), and cold (below freezing) is bad ... makes it brittle, prone to cracking or shattering.

Certain types of wood, especially oily woods, don't dry out very well or evenly. Freezing affects these types of woods badly ... olivewood can contain traces of olive oil. Colorgrain is a layered pattern of plywood held together by superglue... Cold affects both of these very badly.

Another major issue is the squaring jig itself. You'll have MUCH MORE success by taking the bit (the 1/4" rod) in that jig out and putting it in BACKWARDS ... and then punching a hole in a small piece of 220 grit sandpaper (or lower, 120 might work OK), and gluing it to the flat side of that squaring jig ... use it as normal in that position.

Don't forget to ream the brass tube after ... and don't forget to WARM UP YOUR SHOP before attempting to turn those on your lathe ... oh, and warm the blanks up too. In fact, you may want to either maintain heat in the garage/shop or move the essential items you need into the house to keep them warm.

 

[RockandCole]

Sorry, I should have mentioned. I am using the PSI squaring jig with 4 cutting things on it, and I keep all of my wood indoors in a cabinet to prevent freezing. I run a small space heater while I am in the garage, but raising the temp to 50 would be impossible, as running the space heater that long would be far too expensive... I turn in the inside most corner of the garage, with the theory that being as far away from the door as possible might help with the bitter cold. I have thought about getting torpedo, but with money being tight, I'm not sure I can do so.

 

[jttheclockman]

I feel like we just had this same conversation not long ago.


www.penturners.org/forum/f14/ok-so-what-happened-here-145083/

I do agree with the others on the temps and the working conditions. When you are cold so is your tools and the materials you are working with. You do not like being cold and so do the other parts. Work on closing in a section with a tarp of some kind and get a small heater. It can be an electric heater. Does not have to be propane or other flamable liquids because then you open yourself up for other possible failures. Be careful man.

here is your post and some answers were in it. I suggested the barrel trimmer trick back then. As I mentioned you are leaving out so much details as to what you are doing that it is hard to give you directions. We have no idea what your barrel trimmer is like. Is it a 2 cutter head or a 4 cutter head?? Is it carbide or HSS?? Are you using the proper size rods. They need to fit tightly so the cutter head does not wander. What are you gluing your tubes in with and what is the wait period for the glue to cure??? (notice I did not say dry) Are you trimming with a hand held drill motor or are you putting in the drill press??? Did you try sanding???

I see you answered a few questions as I was typing. That cutter is a steel cutter head and dulls very very very quickly. Learn to hone it and here again a good quality hone will do the trick. As you see the more you get into this the more money you will sink into it. There is no way getting around it. For now try the sanding thing. But again remember heat is your enemy.

 

[RockandCole]

I feel like we just had this same conversation not long ago.


www.penturners.org/forum/f14/ok-so-what-happened-here-145083/

I do agree with the others on the temps and the working conditions. When you are cold so is your tools and the materials you are working with. You do not like being cold and so do the other parts. Work on closing in a section with a tarp of some kind and get a small heater. It can be an electric heater. Does not have to be propane or other flamable liquids because then you open yourself up for other possible failures. Be careful man.

here is your post and some answers were in it. I suggested the barrel trimmer trick back then. As I mentioned you are leaving out so much details as to what you are doing that it is hard to give you directions. We have no idea what your barrel trimmer is like. Is it a 2 cutter head or a 4 cutter head?? Is it carbide or HSS?? Are you using the proper size rods. They need to fit tightly so the cutter head does not wander. What are you gluing your tubes in with and what is the wait period for the glue to cure??? (notice I did not say dry) Are you trimming with a hand held drill motor or are you putting in the drill press??? Did you try sanding???

Firstly, thank you for all of your help, I haven't tried sanding with the squaring jig yet, I planned to do so, but didn't today, I probably will tomorrow. It is is a 4 cutter head HSS from PSI. I am using it in a dewalt 20v drill, and I was doing it by hand, but today I used a vice to hold the blank still after the first failure, but both did the same thing. The trimmer and the barrels are a snug fit as I have only been using 7mm tubes. I am using a 15 minute mid cure 2 part epoxy also from PSI and allowing it to cure for 12+ hours, although the olivewood had actually been cured for 3 days.

 

[Charlie_W]

Make sure your barrel trimmer/pen mill is spinning and then ease it slowly to the pen blank. Your pen mill might need sharpening...even if new. A diamond hone can touch these up.
Also, if you can clamp the pen blank in a clamp, vise or something to hold it is helpful. Your Dewalt is probably cordless. Many cordless drills run slower than an electric drill. Faster speeds can help with smoother cutting. Having a blank clamped allows for two hands on the drill for more control.
I personally don't want a blank in my hand while squaring the ends....too many bad things can happen.
Edit: yes, sanding is the safer way to go.

Good luck!

 

[ed4copies]

Sorry, I should have mentioned. I am using the PSI squaring jig with 4 cutting things on it, and I keep all of my wood indoors in a cabinet to prevent freezing. I run a small space heater while I am in the garage, but raising the temp to 50 would be impossible, as running the space heater that long would be far too expensive... I turn in the inside most corner of the garage, with the theory that being as far away from the door as possible might help with the bitter cold. I have thought about getting torpedo, but with money being tight, I'm not sure I can do so.

When I started making pens, I also used the garage. Three car--open the service door enough to vent the back of the torpedo, 80,000 btu's poured in. Just under an hour and it was "livable". Looking back, I would have been smarter to close off a smaller area, but make sure you don't set yourself up for carbon monoxide issues.

Turning pens is supposed to be enjoyable--you'll get a lot more satisfaction out of a completed pen than you will watching little pieces shatter off the icicle you are turning---good luck whatever path you choose!!

 

[jttheclockman]

I feel like we just had this same conversation not long ago.


www.penturners.org/forum/f14/ok-so-what-happened-here-145083/

I do agree with the others on the temps and the working conditions. When you are cold so is your tools and the materials you are working with. You do not like being cold and so do the other parts. Work on closing in a section with a tarp of some kind and get a small heater. It can be an electric heater. Does not have to be propane or other flamable liquids because then you open yourself up for other possible failures. Be careful man.

here is your post and some answers were in it. I suggested the barrel trimmer trick back then. As I mentioned you are leaving out so much details as to what you are doing that it is hard to give you directions. We have no idea what your barrel trimmer is like. Is it a 2 cutter head or a 4 cutter head?? Is it carbide or HSS?? Are you using the proper size rods. They need to fit tightly so the cutter head does not wander. What are you gluing your tubes in with and what is the wait period for the glue to cure??? (notice I did not say dry) Are you trimming with a hand held drill motor or are you putting in the drill press??? Did you try sanding???

Firstly, thank you for all of your help, I haven't tried sanding with the squaring jig yet, I planned to do so, but didn't today, I probably will tomorrow. It is is a 4 cutter head HSS from PSI. I am using it in a dewalt 20v drill, and I was doing it by hand, but today I used a vice to hold the blank still after the first failure, but both did the same thing. The trimmer and the barrels are a snug fit as I have only been using 7mm tubes. I am using a 15 minute mid cure 2 part epoxy also from PSI and allowing it to cure for 12+ hours, although the olivewood had actually been cured for 3 days.

Barrel trimmers are finicky because any sideward angle the blade edge can dig in. ( by the way a 4 blade cutter is better than a 2 blade cutter.)You need a light touch to get those things started. I have a carbide trimmer and have to say I never cracked a pen since I have been doing this. I too use a handheld drill motor. I ran out of ideas so will leave it to others but I do want to again mention many times you are the one that needs to find out the problem. All we can do is make suggestions. We can not watch your every move so there maybe a telltale sign that we do not see. Good luck. Slow and easy are the key words to pen making especially when just starting out.

 

[thewishman]

When I turned in my one-car pen studio (for eight years) I learned to carry the next blanks I wanted to work with in my pants pocket. A warm blank made the drilling and trimming much easier.

I used a torpedo - let it run long enough for the machines to be warm-ish, then turned it off and vented a good bit of the air in the shop. I stood on a foam floor mat and would turn until I got too cold, then repeated the warming procedure.

I have had trimmers that just did not work. It was easier to buy another one than ruin more blanks.