Sierra Rebuild

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workinforwood

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Yep..over the years the Sierra pen has really evolved into a stunningly beautiful pen. Problem is, the engineering has never evolved with the pen. I swear there is not a day goes buy that my wife isn't complaining about her sierra coupon pen laying in pieces at the bottom of her purse. I put it back together, or my daughter does, but the next day it falls apart again. Drives me nuts! In my opinion, the nib section should screw into the pen barrel. This is where all the problems occur. The pen is only held together by a little grip on the transmission, and there is not exactly a lot of bite up there as the length of the tube that holds the tranny is very short. The pen pulls itself apart in the purse, then the pieces rattle around and the tranny starts to undo itself and then the refill falls out...it's a nuisance. But I always liked the stubby pen barrel and long ballpoint nib section. You guys are always interested in the nitty gritty of what a guys doing, and although I have no idea what I'm doing, I am a profound BS'er...so I can make myself sound like I know what's up as good as the next guy!:biggrin:

No doubt there's a multitude of ways to tackle this. My way is through the limited teachings of Steve Jackson and Gary Nichols and personal playtime, so my techniques are like that of a Mutt. I'm sure there's something here ya'll can learn from though, because it never hurts to see another person's opinion on how to do things.

Image 1 is a majority of my parts and tool accessories.

There is a 1/2" rod of Alumibronze and a piece of Aluminum.
A 9x1.25 tap and matching 7.75 drill bit
A 10x.75 tap and matching 9.25 drill bit
Junk sierra parts for measurements
Pen clip from who knows what
Pen blank from Exoticblanks.com ..thanks Dawn.
Calipers.

Image 2: I measure with the calipers the OD of the centerband on the sierra nib section. I will need my new pen to be slightly larger to have room for my threading. The alumibronze is chucked in the lathe real close to the collet. With a small pilot countersink bit I countersink the center of the rod. Then I extend it out about 8 inches and install a live center for support and rigidity. I spin the rod down so that it is about a 16th of an inch larger than the original diameter of the sierra nib. If it was larger than that, it wouldn't matter, long as the diameter isn't too small. I like to just go with how I feel, rather than get to many numbers in the way.

Image3: There needs to be a tennon. I am going to tap my pen blank with a 10x.75 thread. Therefore the tennon on the nib will have an OD of 10 mm. The tennon on the sierra nib is something like 7/16 long, so I just make my tennon 1/2" long because I like that number a bit better..easier on my brain. The tenon was cut with a triangle bit and then I come back and clean up the shoulder with a parting tool.

Image4: This is a thread cutter. There are a few different types of thread cutters. You can cut threads with just a single point bit, or you can use a specific cutter depending on the threads you want. A single point bit gets into tighter spaces like shoulders. A thread cutter like the one I show is specifically designed for a .75 mm thread. It will only cut to that exact width and depth. So you have a perfect thread every time, for people like me that don't know how to measure very well. Going into a shoulder like this, you have to work real fast! It only will take the lathe about 2 seconds before that cutter runs that 1/2" length and crashes into your rod. This type of cutter can't be run upside down and reverse in small shoulder like this because the design is just too bulky, so I flip the switch on and then off real fast! I do not need the threads to run right into the shoulder anyhow..I just need enough threads to hold the pen together.

Image 5: This is a 10x.75 die. I run this die by hand over the threads. I am simply verifiying the size is correct, and chasing the threads helps clean them up even nicer too.
 

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bitshird

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Jeff, rather than chance jamming you thread cutter into the shoulder by using the lathe to turn why not start the cutter by using your chuck wrench for leverage and turning the chuck that way??
 

workinforwood

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Image 6: I measured the length of the nib and it was about 2 1/16 long (not including tennon). I like to give myself a bit of breathing room but not was too much, so I part the rod measuring back from the shoulder of the tennon 2.5 inches.

Image 7: I chuck the soon to be nib section this time with the tennon inside the machine. I use a small pilot bit and start a hole. This is the side of the pen where the ink sticks out. I know that I made the rod a bit long. Using a 2.7mm drill bit, I drill into the end of the pen at least an inch deep. I drill the smallest hole first. Drilling the larger hole and then drilling a smaller hole into it can cause the fragile bit to break as it exits into the larger opening.

Image 8: This is just a cup of oil. The pilot bit, the drill bit, taps..they all should be oiled as you use them. Drilling for example..you drill in an 1/8 deep or so, then you pull out and clean and oil the bit. The acid brush cleans and oils the bit at the same time. The oil is not anything special...SAE 30 motor oil for the lawn mower. It works.

Image 9: This is me measuring the inside of the nib. There is like 3 holes inside a nib. the step their way down in size. The smallest hole is already drilled. The rod is flipped in the lathe and the largest hole is drilled. This is an important hole! I figured out the threads on the transmission are 9x1.25. So the hole drilled is 7.75, and I determined with some fancy measuring that the depth is 1 11/16 deep..and if it's a hair deeper, all will be ok. You just need to be close.

Image 10: Now the hole between the big hole and the little hole! This is basically where the spring will go into. I measured the spring sits nicely in a 4mm hole. Doing some eyeing up with my measuring tools, I figure the hole would be 1/2" deep at least. So I procede to drill that out. Later, after the rough work is done, I will test the refill and tranny, and if the 4mm hole isn't quite deep enough, I can add a hair more depth.
 

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workinforwood

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Image 11: Tap the hole with the 9x1.25 tap. Oil the tap and install the tap in the drill chuck. push the back of the tailstock in. Turn the collet chuck by hand, 1/4 turn then back up, 1/4 turn more then back up. After a revolution or two, back out and clean and re-oil the tap.

Image 12: Using my measuring technique, otherwise known as eyeballin it..I mark where I will part of the scrap end of the rod.

Image 13: install the refill and tranny and test it. Whew...perfect fit! :laugh:
 

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workinforwood

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Jeff, rather than chance jamming you thread cutter into the shoulder by using the lathe to turn why not start the cutter by using your chuck wrench for leverage and turning the chuck that way??

Sounds great Ken. I had no idea you could physically turn the lathe with the lead screw on and the thead screw engaged. It doesn't seem like it will turn like that by hand...but maybe I should try that with a big lever. It's not too big a deal in this case if you crash the cutter into the shoulder all that would happen is you make the tennon longer. The material is not hard enough to break the cutter and the machine has the power to plow that whole rod into dust. I will be happy to give your method a try though. I love new ideas.

I accept any comments or criticisms or idea's always. We all know I am no expert, especially with metal working techniques, But at the same time, I'm gettin her done..so keep that in mind too!
 
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Texatdurango

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Sounds great Ken. I had no idea you could physically turn the lathe with the lead screw on and the thead screw engaged. It doesn't seem like it will turn like that by hand...but maybe I should try that with a big lever. It's not too big a deal in this case if you crash the cutter into the shoulder all that would happen is you make the tennon longer. The material is not hard enough to break the cutter and the machine has the power to plow that whole rod into dust. I will be happy to give your method a try though. I love new ideas.

I accept any comments or criticisms or idea's always. We all know I am no expert, especially with metal working techniques, But at the same time, I'm gettin her done..so keep that in mind too!
I don't know about others but that's how I cut most of my threads as well... partially by hand with the leadscrew and threading lever engaged. I cut metric threads so far so don't have to fool with the numbered threading wheel.

With the cutter depth set I will start the lathe then stop short of the shoulder and hand turn the last few threads, back off the cutter and run the lathe in reverse to back the cutter away then repeat as necessary. But like you said, sometimes it a very quick on then off again!
 

workinforwood

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That's really cool, I'll give that a shot. As you can see by my pen, it is designed for people with 2 hands and no fingers, so the pen is held total vertical for writing.:biggrin: It also substitutes as a faerie baseball bat.
 

skiprat

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LOL, I'm watching this like a hawk!!! You are a helluva fast learner Jeff, that's for sure!!

Now it's my turn to ask questions:biggrin:

In image 4 you show a cutter that is 'specifically for 0.75mm cuts' I've never seen anything like that before, so please would you either send me a link or perhaps a close up shot? I can't see the very tip of it, but it looks like the left side is perpendicular to the centre line and the right side is at around 30degs. Is the very tip ground differently?. If it didn't/ doesn't have a different tip then it looks like a normal right hand cutter:confused:

Next question; What size hole and how deep did you make the front of the nib? Is it only the depth of the centre drill tip? I use a 2.5mm and try to make it at least 5 - 7mm deep. This allows a sharper taper on the nib without the fear of turning into the 4mm spring hole.

I must say that I'm very impressed so far.
Doesn't you lathe have VS? I would have thought that you could run it so that you had at least 30 seconds to thread that short section.
I put a crank handle on my leadscrew so I can do very short threading with the lathe off. ( Too many crashes:redface: )

Looking forward to the rest.:wink:
 

Texatdurango

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LOL, I'm watching this like a hawk!!! You are a helluva fast learner Jeff, that's for sure!!

Now it's my turn to ask questions:biggrin:

In image 4 you show a cutter that is 'specifically for 0.75mm cuts' I've never seen anything like that before, so please would you either send me a link or perhaps a close up shot? I can't see the very tip of it, but it looks like the left side is perpendicular to the centre line and the right side is at around 30degs. Is the very tip ground differently?. If it didn't/ doesn't have a different tip then it looks like a normal right hand cutter:confused:

Next question; What size hole and how deep did you make the front of the nib? Is it only the depth of the centre drill tip? I use a 2.5mm and try to make it at least 5 - 7mm deep. This allows a sharper taper on the nib without the fear of turning into the 4mm spring hole.

I must say that I'm very impressed so far.
Doesn't you lathe have VS? I would have thought that you could run it so that you had at least 30 seconds to thread that short section.
I put a crank handle on my leadscrew so I can do very short threading with the lathe off. ( Too many crashes:redface: )

Looking forward to the rest.:wink:

OK, my turn for a question since I have thought of putting a handle on the end of the lead screw. Went so far as to take a knob from an old water faucet and tried to see how I would attach it to the end of the lead screw then it dawned on me that it would be so far to the right, it wouldn't work. So, could we see a shot of your handle?
 

jttheclockman

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That is all terrific and all but what do we mortal people do to stop this??? Is there a simplier fix than that. You might as well just build the whole pen kit. Not a simple fix and I want to see you do that with all the sierras you do.
 

1dweeb

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That is all terrific and all but what do we mortal people do to stop this??? Is there a simplier fix than that. You might as well just build the whole pen kit. Not a simple fix and I want to see you do that with all the sierras you do.

Why not just put a spot of blue loctite on the threads of the transmission and that would stop it from backing out. It takes a little more effort to replace the refill but it is not to bad. It has worked well for my wife's pens.:rolleyes:
 

jttheclockman

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Why not just put a spot of blue loctite on the threads of the transmission and that would stop it from backing out. It takes a little more effort to replace the refill but it is not to bad. It has worked well for my wife's pens.:rolleyes:

Blue is removable???
 

skiprat

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OK, my turn for a question since I have thought of putting a handle on the end of the lead screw. Went so far as to take a knob from an old water faucet and tried to see how I would attach it to the end of the lead screw then it dawned on me that it would be so far to the right, it wouldn't work. So, could we see a shot of your handle?

Apologies to Jeff, I don't want to pollute his thread...here's a quick pic.
Removed leadscrew, drill and tap 10mm. Bolt tightens into bottom of tapped hole. Handle clamped with nut.
 

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workinforwood

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Steve, the rod was parted off slightly longer than need be, so the pilot hole was eventually parted away at the very end when I did the final length. The 2.5 mm entry hole is about 3/16 deep..hard to see exactly and I have no way to measure a shallow through hole. I do not know about what tool angles are ground on anything. I accidentally lied to George. The cutters are from Carbidedepot.com , not from victornet. I've been trying to buy all my cutter stuff at the same spot so I know where to get replacements..I've been buying cutters from them and drill stuff from victornet..had to go check receipts.

John...will I build all my sierra's this way...yes I will. I can change up the metals, I can make two tone sierra's, whatever. It's more work, but I can charge more for it. What's a guy to do that can't do this..I guess put some locktight on the tranny...but do you want to sell a pen that will fall apart and at the same time do you want to sell a pen that the customer has to use a wrench to remove the tranny to replace the refill? I can't sell a pen that a customer needs to wrench on. When my kit elegant sierra's are sold, that's it for them.

This Sierra will twist at the top of the pen and the coupler that grabs the tranny will be a bit longer and tighter.

And Steve..your crank is awesome. My lathe is not adjustable speed by a dial like a jet vs. I have 6 speed options per gear selection. So for a .75 thread, I have 6 speed options and the slowest is 400 rpm. If I want a slower speed than 400 rpm, I have to change the gears but then the machine will be cutting a different thread size. I'll definitely be rigging up something like that crank on my machine..I am happy I started all this or I never would have known I could hand crank it!
 

Chuck Key

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EZ Hand Crank for Minilathes

Here is an EZ hand crank for the guys with minilathes.

Step 1. Remove the gear cover and replace the SHCS on the lead screw with a bolt and nut for a spacer:

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Step 2. Use a ratchet to turn the lead screw:


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Step 3. Crank away. This works best with the lath moved to the edge of the bench unless you have a real short ratchet handle.

The best to all,
Chuckie
 

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PenMan1

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Yep..over the years the Sierra pen has really evolved into a stunningly beautiful pen. Problem is, the engineering has never evolved with the pen.

Thanks Jeff. You have correctly identified the main problem with this pen AND provided a very workable fix to the problem. Even with the fix, I still get a little snippy about putting an hour of my time into fixing a design issue that the manufacturer should have implemented years ago.

Oh well, off the soap box. Thanks again for a very practical and workable solution to the most problematic pen in my workshop.
 

Texatdurango

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..... I accidentally lied to George. The cutters are from Carbidedepot.com , not from victornet......

Accidentally! ...... or "Let's see how long I can get George to search all over Victornet looking for these tools" :smile-big:

I apologize as well for polluting your thread, I just get carried away talking about tools sometime! But it's your fault... you showed photos of some neat tools! :biggrin:
 

skiprat

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So have you finished that pen yet old man????????:biggrin: You should have done about ten by now!!!:tongue:
( yes, I DID see your 'hate the rodent' comment in the other thread!!! )

I like Chuckie's leadscrew drive too. Both his and mine have pro's and cons.
You don't need special tools for his, but need to have the cover off and operate with left hand.
Mine needs drilling and tapping but can be cranked continuously ( no stopping for ratchet)

Hey Chuckie!!!! I'm glad my lathe isn't the only one that needs a good scrubbing!!!:biggrin::tongue:
 
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BRobbins629

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Nice rebuild. Always liked the feel of the Sierra but never the durability. Still have a few kits left, but haven't made one in years. Your getting to be quite the machinist.
 

erebus

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Why not just put a spot of blue loctite on the threads of the transmission and that would stop it from backing out. It takes a little more effort to replace the refill but it is not to bad. It has worked well for my wife's pens.:rolleyes:

Might be eaiser to use a smidge of non-drying gasket sealer (available in most automotive sections). Unlike the loctite this won't need to be reapplied each time you change the refill, just don't clean it off the theads
 

workinforwood

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Chuck's idea is darn good too! I'm going to have to go with Steve's idea though, because his crank handle is on the right side of the machine. My lathe is not a mini lathe, so there is no way I can see where the threads are at while cranking on the left side of the machine.

I'll finish my pen on Saturday because I've been busy with my real job. It's not at all as much work as it might look like. If you document your work, you can repeat it over and over again at least 2-3 times faster because you don't have to determine all your drill sizes, tap sizes and lengths as you go. So the first pen might be 6 hrs of labor, but the second pen can be done in 2 hrs or so. I realize a nice looking Sierra is near $10. The cost of parts on this pen will be about $5, and that's mostly due to the refill and tranny. But the customer will have a more unique hybrid pen, with higher quality and no plating issues. This pen is alumibronze. It is an interesting material. It cuts hard, not as hard as stainless, but pretty darn hard and yet it feels slightly lighter in weight than brass. It has a look similar to brass but slightly golder, and it does not scratch as easy as brass, but it can tarnish just the same.

Steve..those thread cutters have 3 sides to them. They can cut a thread in softer materials in a single pass. The cut stainless no problem too. I did not attempt to cut threads in stainless in a single pass, I use two passes. Regardless, I always find the threads look a little better if you chase them with a die afterwards. This goes real fast too, because you can do it all by hand, no need for the die holder on the tail stock. The die should only have to clean up the threads a bit, not actually re-cut them. That could also be simply due to user error. I might use the tool incorrectly and you might find a way to cut the perfect super clean crisp thread in one pass. Who knows.
 

workinforwood

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I had an hour this morning before work, so I spun down the nib and made the tube which I glued into the blank.

Pic 14: With a parting tool, I shaved made a shallow cut to identify a centerband. I then used a knurling tool and beat on the metal for several minutes until the teeth on the tool started to smoke :biggrin:. Dang..this metal is hard stuff!

Pic 15: This is a sierra nib section chucked into the lathe. I did this so I could turn my topslide to match the profile...or at least as best I can without having the machine crash into the crank handle on the top slide. With a softer metal, I would come in from the opposite angle with the tail stock slid out of the way, but this metal is pretty darn tough, so I really wanted the added support of a live center.

Pic 16 and 17: There are two angles on a sierra nib. It tapers out and near the end it tapers down a little sharper. The first cut I made was the taper at the end. Then I made the taper in the middle. This is a very low angle taper and there was no way to cut it without damaging the topslide. I decided to risk extending out the cutter. They are 1/2" thick cutters I have, so I figured with light passes it should be ok, and I was correct, it was no issue.

Pic 18: This is my new sierra style nib next to the factory nib.
 

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cnirenberg

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Jeff,
That is very cool. I have been following this thread with anticipation. You haven't let me down. Thanks for posting this. I am excited to go home and turn something!!
 

workinforwood

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Image 19: Now I trued up a short piece of aluminum. I chucked it and drilled a 9.25 hole all the way through. Then I turned it down just under 25/64 in size. The blank is drilled with a 25/64 bit, so the blank needs to be just a hair less than that to allow for glue inside. Here you see the aluminum tube and I am using the sierra tube to judge the length that I will part the new tube. The new tube is parted just a hair longer to allow for trimming with the blank installed.

Image 20: When the blank is dry, it is spun true on the wood lathe, between centers with no bushings..they just aren't necessary for a custom pen. The original idea was to spin the blank round and even, then chuck it and using the metal lathe each end of the blank would then be trimmed square. But..it just so happens I had a barrel trimmer that was identical in size to the tube I made, so I used that instead..being that was the fastest way. The blank is round and straight across, not spun all the way down to pen size. It is chucked and then tapped with the 10x.75 tap. After it is tapped, I use a file and chamfer the inside of the tube. This is important. The blank is going to be placed back between the live centers and spun to final size. If the centers are touching threads, then the blank won't be riding true. The reason the blank was not turned to finished size before it was tapped is because it has a slight taper and therefore is more difficult to hold straight in a collet.

Image 21: Here is the blank on the wood lathe. I spun it using calipers. The one end is the size of the nib section. The other size is the size of the clip. Then it is wet sanded and polished. It may not look like there is a taper to the blank, but there is..the clip is just a little bit wider than the nib.

Image 21: This is the test fit of what is finished up to now. You notice a difference right? Yep..I couldn't stand the straight tapers on the nib section. I have the same issues with the factory one, but it was even worse on this nib because it is heavier. The smoothness is also a factor..the pen feels like it's going to slip right out of my fingers. So I went back and adjusted my nib. I really thought a dip in the nib would make it easier to hold and more comfy, and I am correct. It also gives the nib some character. The Knurled centerband is rather industrial looking and now the nib section is still a bit industrial looking, but not so much. With this blank, the industrial look is going to work, but with many other blanks, I think just a smooth raised centerband would have been better. I'm pretty happy with where it's at right now and it won't hardly take any time tomorrow to finish it off.

I do not know what's up with this metal. It's the strangest metal of the hundreds <er 4> of metals I've worked with! After it is polished, it looks more like stainless steel than bronze. It behaves similar to stainless in some ways, but it is more forgiving without a doubt. This is the first metal I ever polished that did not turn into a black slurry. The water stayed clear. If you turn it with agressive cuts, the shavings are not shavings, just blasts of powder. It takes a lot of fine sanding to shine it up..not as bad as stainless, but still a work out. Paul Hoffman told me this metal was created to be used as bearings. I can see how that could be now that I used some..because it sure has durability and scratch resistance. I think customers will appreciate it using a real metal pen that does not turn your fingers black over time.
 

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workinforwood

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Jeff,
That is very cool. I have been following this thread with anticipation. You haven't let me down. Thanks for posting this. I am excited to go home and turn something!!

Thanks. There are tons of people here with equipment that can do this work. I have very little experience, and yet I think I have good success at it. Perhaps this will motivate a few people to use those lathes for what they are meant for. I'm also trying to take a bit of work of Steve and George's hands in posting informational stuff, while at the same time I am learning new things about what I am doing..learning by doing and learning by people chiming in and saying hey..you can crank that by hand you know! I love making these pens..so to me it's not a big deal if every sierra style pen I ever make has my own parts in it. Making the entire thing gives me more pleasure and keeps my mind occupied. For people that simply can't do it because of equipment...there still can be something here to expand on what you are already doing. If not..oh well.
 

skiprat

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In a Skip in Wales
Lookin' good Jeff:biggrin:

I hadn't heard of Aluminium Bronze till you mentioned it. I did some googling and the anti- tarnish properties make it a very interesting pen makers option.
Can't wait to see this completed.
 

workinforwood

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Here is a comparison pic between the first nib section I made to mimic the sierra and then after I didn't like that and modified it. Thanks Bruce for the photoshop work.
 

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skiprat

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Jeff, I really don't like the way you had to turn that short taper for two reasons.....first your left hand is pretty close to the chuck (while your eyes are on the work)and second, you are turning with the backlash of the topslide.
In two minutes you can solve the problem. Make a live centre extension bar. :wink: Take a length of say 250mm of nice round tool steel rod 1/2 inch diameter. One end gets centre drilled, the other end gets a point.
Now you can move your tailstock further to the right of the bed and place the ext bar between the live centre and the work. Now the topslide crank will fit under the bar with plenty of space for your right hand.

I'll post a pic in the morning of mine if you want.
 

workinforwood

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yea...I generally pull the key every time..but I have the power off and was just chucking this pen for a measure of angles, then have to reset for the actual rod. Still a know know.

Thanks for the tip Steve. I'll give that a try I am fortunate with this set up if you do tap that spinning head with a knuckle..it does nothing to you. It is smooth. The thing you really don't want to get close to is the bolts that hold the chuck on the lathe. The T slots in the face plate there move too fast to even feel them...yes I've lightly touched that in motion.

John..the lathe is a 12x30 gear head lathe from Bolton hardware and tools.
 

skiprat

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I'm sure you understood about my extension bar, but here's a pic anyway. As you can see, there's bags of space for your hand.

With mine, I also took a light skim along the bar and now also use it as a test bar to true up my tailstock after offsetting it to do long tapers.:wink:
 

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workinforwood

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Image 23: This is my collar for the top of the pen. It has a tenon and is a press fit into the tube. It may be hard to see, but the tenon is actually 2 tenons. Right up close to the shoulder is another very skinny tenon that is a larger OD..this is the tenon that receives the clip. In the pic I am parting off the tenon, which is then flipped around and polished.

Image 24: The final piece to the puzzle is the twist activator. It's a simple thing, except that I do not have the perfect drill bit..I only have 2000 drill bits and the bit I needed for this was bit 2001! I drilled with the closest tight fit drill bit I had. Then I used a file inside as the lathe spun and tuned the fit. I gave the finial a little bit of shape, and that was more out of function that for character. Having a dip like that gives it a grip point for turning the pen on and off and to remove the finial when you need to change the refill. It is hard to pull the finial off of the transmission when the metal is very smooth and tapered at the same time.
 

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workinforwood

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I suppose we might want to see the finished pen assembled right? :wink:

If it's not assembled it didn't happen. Took me 30 minutes to get ya'll this photo hosted elsewhere for a better view. Yes, the pen is that friggin shiny! You can blind a man with this metal..it's like a mirror.

SierraMod.jpg
 

skiprat

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Beautifully done Jeff !!!! All you need now is to use one of your own custom blanks. :biggrin:
How much does it weigh? I believe that Aluminium Bronze stuff is fairly light? Please also keep us posted on how well the shine holds up.
 

workinforwood

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55 grams! A typical sierra is about 42 grams. But this is made in America. I wanted to use one of Dawns blanks for a change...light glitter pinstripes. That stuff does not shine up as well...more of a warm glow. Turns really nice and the glitter is cool..reminds me of the 70's disco era. Seems to fit the metal real well in my opinion.

There is nothing light about alumabronze. I think it is not even aluminum or bronze. I think it is nickel and copper. That is why it is supposed to be so tough, scratch resistand and tarnish resistant. Finger acid will tarnish aluminum. This stuff is used in high acid situations, so it should do well.
 
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