jkirkb94
Member
How have your Sierra pens been selling? I've noted the popularity of them on the forum and I am trying to decide it I want to invest in them. I already have a lot of pen kits! Kirk[8D]
Originally posted by Mikey
<br />Girls really like them. If you are showing them to guys you will be wasting your time. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Originally posted by angboy
<br />
So what do [:X]women[:X] like? (Sorry, just couldn't resist!)
The Sierra was one of the first nicer pens I made and the black/gold plated pen is what I carried and used daily. Not a month into use I noticed exactly what you described. I though it was my poor old eyes but found out that I was not alone in the finding.Originally posted by galoot_loves_tools
<br />I have turned a few. One thing I have noticed is plating failure on the black titanium/gold version ...
Originally posted by Randy_
<br />Originally posted by angboy
<br />
So what do [:X]women[:X] like? (Sorry, just couldn't resist!)
Real men!![][]
Originally posted by Texatdurango
<br />The Sierra was one of the first nicer pens I made and the black/gold plated pen is what I carried and used daily. Not a month into use I noticed exactly what you described. I though it was my poor old eyes but found out that I was not alone in the finding.Originally posted by galoot_loves_tools
<br />I have turned a few. One thing I have noticed is plating failure on the black titanium/gold version ...
They're nice pens but not worth it if the plating wears off in a month. Might as well buy the cheap $5 kit... at least they last longer before wearing!
That is why I started looking around for another nice twist style ballpoint to replace the Seirra in my collection.
George
Originally posted by angboy
<br />Real men!![][]
Good answer Randy!!! (I'm not having much luck finding one...[V][V])
Originally posted by galoot_loves_tools
<br />I have turned a few. One thing I have noticed is plating failure on the black titanium/gold version (Wallstreet II from Woodcraft, same as Berea Sierra II, I`m told). <b>It looks like they plated the gold over black titanium on the nib tip, not color matched titanium oxide like other versions</b>, and it is wearing off very rapidly, exposing the black titanium. Very disappointing since this is an expensive kit. <b>I don`t know how widespread this is but have heard of this in one other post on the `other` pen forum.</b>
Originally posted by Randy_
<br />.....As to the second comment, apparently, I miss the discussion on "ANOTHER" forum. There is really no reason not to name the forum and I, for one, would like to know who it is so I can see the other discussion of the issue. Thanks.[/font=Comic Sans MS][/size=3][/teal]
Hi Randy, I don't know what forum Tom is referring to but I posted my comments on the Yahoo penturners group a month or so back and there was some discussion as to why the plating is wearing off so quickly.
I took a photo to show the wearing on my Sierra but it isn't real clear. If you look at the top zoom, it is the same pen with the pen rotated to show good gold plating. The lower zoom shiws the worn spot and in real life, looks just like the black titanium on the adjoining part. If by chance you are coming to the Bubbasville gathering next weekend in Hurst, I'll bring the pen so you can see where the gold is wearing off, showing black
<br />.
As far as complaining to the vendor, I doubt that would get me anywhere, probably just a lot of grief!
George
Originally posted by Randy_
<br /> Someone please correct me if I am wrong; but as I understand it, titanium oxide is black and titanium nitride is an approximate gold color and can have its color adjusted, chemically.
Originally posted by Randy_
<br />Originally posted by angboy
<br />Real men!![][]
Good answer Randy!!! (I'm not having much luck finding one...[V][V])
Men is plural. I thought you were looking for two??[}][}]
Originally posted by Texatdurango
<br />.....As far as complaining to the vendor, I doubt that would get me anywhere, probably just a lot of grief!
Originally posted by angboy
<br />.....Oh, that's right! Now I'll have to redouble my efforts since this means that right now I'm twice as much NOT successful! [!][!]
Originally posted by Mudder
<br />Originally posted by Randy_
<br /> Someone please correct me if I am wrong; but as I understand it, titanium oxide is black and titanium nitride is an approximate gold color and can have its color adjusted, chemically.
I cannot speak in direct relations to pen plating but we get tools coated with Titanium Nitride and they appear as if they are gold plated
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride
We also get tools coated in "Black Ti" and that process is called Titanium Carbo Nitride Coating (TiCN)
Look at the bottom section of the wikipedia link above.
I believe that the Black ti and platinum sierra is actually Titanium Aluminum Nitride (TiAN) because it sure looks suspiciously similar to a part that we have TiAN coated for a customer.
I think that Titanium Oxide and Titanium Dioxide are pure white and are used as a pigment in paints and such.
http://www.toho-titanium.co.jp/en/products/tio2.html
Originally posted by Texatdurango
<br />Originally posted by Randy_
<br />.....As to the second comment, apparently, I miss the discussion on "ANOTHER" forum. There is really no reason not to name the forum and I, for one, would like to know who it is so I can see the other discussion of the issue. Thanks.[/font=Comic Sans MS][/size=3][/teal]
Hi Randy, I don't know what forum Tom is referring to but I posted my comments on the Yahoo penturners group a month or so back and there was some discussion as to why the plating is wearing off so quickly.
I took a photo to show the wearing on my Sierra but it isn't real clear. If you look at the top zoom, it is the same pen with the pen rotated to show good gold plating. The lower zoom shiws the worn spot and in real life, looks just like the black titanium on the adjoining part. If by chance you are coming to the Bubbasville gathering next weekend in Hurst, I'll bring the pen so you can see where the gold is wearing off, showing black
<br />.
As far as complaining to the vendor, I doubt that would get me anywhere, probably just a lot of grief!
George
OK, this is exactly what I`m seeing too. I used the term `titanium oxide` for the base plating because this is what Berea says in their online literature for describing the so-called gold-titanium plating process.
I have to get the pen away from my wife, lol, and take it into the Woodcraft where I bought the kit and register a complaint. The pen is a Wallstreet II but I have read many times in this forum and on the Yahoo penturner`s group that Woodcraft sources these kits from Berea.
My personal pen at the moment is a gold-Ti Euro (7mm) from a Berea kit that I bought from Bear Tooth Woods. I have used it hard for several weeks and not seen any loss of plating whereas my wife`s Wallstreet II gold-black Ti pen lives in front of her computer, is not carried around in a, um, sweaty shirt pocket like mine (i.e. has BARELY been used) and is showing the loss of plating like George shows above. What looks like black-Ti is showing through. Apparently, the gold was not plated over a color-matched titanium base. I don`t know whether this was a deliberate manufacturing choice or a mistake but this is an expensive kit as kits go. As I said before, this kit makes a very attractive pen but with that type of premature wear on the nib, no more for me.
Hey, can anyone tell me how well the jet black (powder coated?) portion of a regular Sierra nib holds up under use? I have a couple of chrome Sierra kits that I want to try and they have this coating on the nib.
Originally posted by galoot_loves_tools
<br />Originally posted by Texatdurango
<br />Originally posted by Randy_
<br /><br />.
My first TI Gold had the same problem. Even as new, it showed what looked like wear on one side. This pen was purchased last summer and I just got around to make the pen a couple of months ago. My current TI Black/Gold Sierras have been purchased in the last couple of months and look OK.
Originally posted by Randy_
<br />When you guys use quotes, you need to get in the habit of cleaning them up and only showing the needed portion. For example, there is no need to keep repeating the same picture multiple times. It just wastes computer resources or so I am told.<br />
Originally posted by Randy_
Scott: Since I wrote the prior comments, I have done some more research, myself and am convinced that the answer is a little more complicated than I thought. I have already seen the web sites that you mentioned and several others as well.
For a start, this is what Berea says about their black titanium plating. "This is a <b>titanium oxide</b> molecularly bonded(PVD) It is unbelievably hard and durable. It will last for many years.â€
I have found some reference to TiCN and TiAN but the pictures and text suggest this stuff varies in color from purple to dark gray. I also found reference to a trademarked process called Black-Ti that is associated with the jewelry business and is used to make black titanium rings…..maybe BruceB can help us out; but have not been able to link this process to TiCN and TiAN.
I agree with your comment that titanium dioxide is a white pigment; but I have not been able to discover anything about TiO.
It is clear that we need a little more information on plating to understand titanium plating. It is also clear that plating 24k gold over a black substrate is lunacy. You would be better off plating it over brass……seems like it would take longer for scratches to show up that way.
Originally posted by Rudy Vey
<br />Quote:
"There is also a debate over two aluminun conversion processes called Iridite and Alodine, they are essentially the same process that are trademarked by different companies. Both meet MIL-C-5541."
Both these names refer to chromating processes for Aluminum, and have nothing to do with the platings we discussed here (Titanium Nitride and else). Iridite is a tradename belonging to MacDermid and Alodine belongs to Henkel Surface Technologies. My company also has similar processes, but these type of coatings are not to be used on such parts we use for pen kits (and they are not made of Aluminum anyways). I can, however, imagine that someone makes a nice Al pen and have it then chromated and clear powder coated. The coating alone does not long withstand daily handling and being created from a hexavalent Chrome containing bath, I would like to see someone use it and maybe putting it into its mouth....
Originally posted by Mudder
<br />Originally posted by Rudy Vey
<br />Quote:
"There is also a debate over two aluminun conversion processes called Iridite and Alodine, they are essentially the same process that are trademarked by different companies. Both meet MIL-C-5541."
Both these names refer to chromating processes for Aluminum, and have nothing to do with the platings we discussed here (Titanium Nitride and else). Iridite is a tradename belonging to MacDermid and Alodine belongs to Henkel Surface Technologies. My company also has similar processes, but these type of coatings are not to be used on such parts we use for pen kits (and they are not made of Aluminum anyways). I can, however, imagine that someone makes a nice Al pen and have it then chromated and clear powder coated. The coating alone does not long withstand daily handling and being created from a hexavalent Chrome containing bath, I would like to see someone use it and maybe putting it into its mouth....
I use this to illustrate my point that two or more companies can come up with essentially the same process with one or two minor differences that do not affect the final outcome and call the process whatever they please.
What part of this did you not understand Rudy? I'm fully aware of what the process is and what it is used for.
Originally posted by jrc
<br />I only make the sierra's in chrome, the plating is much better. I sell a few hundred of them a year. Mostly corporate orders.
Originally posted by Randy_
<br />....Since Berea is the original source of this kit, maybe they would be the ones to talk to even if you got it from a reseller originally. 1-877-736-5487[/size=3][/teal][/font=Comic Sans MS]