Should I be Mad?

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reddwil

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Feb 28, 2008
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This is not to open a big can of worms,,,Really. But If you make and sell blanks and someone else makes similar blanks and uses the name you call your blanks, would you say something? Example, If you pour color blanks and sell them calling them Brookes blanks, Would Jonathan be angry and say something? I think so

The reason I ask, I found a guy selling pens on one of the sites. He is making his own blanks and calling them Ironclads. Several sellers on the site use my blanks and acknowledge that I make them. Not that I care about that, But I do take pride in what I make and don't want people to associated someone else's work as mine by calling them the same thing.
 
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Unless you have it Copyrighted (or is it Trademarked? I get the 2 confused), not much you can do legally. Is it possible he just thinks that's the name for that style of blank? There's also the possibility that you've made such an impact on the market that all other similar styled blanks are by default known as ironclads (like if you ask for a band-aid or a q-tip when you aren't necessarily referring to those specific Brands).

But the simple answer I think is yes, you do have a right to be upset. You should reach out to the maker if you haven't already.
 
I understand someone doing similar blanks. There are only so many real color combinations. In fact, recently, I called Jonathon because he showed a pen in alumilite that I was doing a very similar blank. I wasn't copying him, it was just a coincidence that they happened about the same time. And I called it the same name as the PR blank I had been selling for over a year.

But using the same name is going too far IMHO. Not that many people here have something that is so identifiable by the name alone. There are a few, but not many. Still, how hard would it be to come up with an original name?
 
I would be slightly flattered but still wish that they respect my work and not use the name. I do think coming up with a separate name is a good idea for anyone, especially if selling them. At the same time maybe they don't know it's your name. I see worthless wood used a lot. I've used it myself when referring to that style blank. I'm honestly not sure if that's something Curtis came up with or it's just the accepted style name. I believe steampunk is the general style name of your ironclad blank which I've seen used plenty.

Some things just kind of are what they are. Watch parts, bottle caps, snakeskin etc. at the same time doing a little branding of those is a good idea.

Bottom line, yeah, you have a reason to be upset, hopefully reaching out to the person will do the trick. It would with me. Being fairly new there's so much I don't know it is very possible to step on toes on accident. I personally would want to be told vs just having someone ticked at me.
 
Should I be mad.

I would be flattered, unless you have the funds to protect your CR. Not all verbiage can be CR'ed. Remember, I said "I", not that you should be flattered....I don't know what is important to you, nor you investment in the name. I call the watermelon blank, "spring", but only after I have made a pen out of it. I call this one 'Heaven"...it sold in one day (to the chief of police...she's a she). Again, only after I make a pen out of it.

That's why NYC there's about 100 Original Ray's Pizza. I know Ray (Ray Bari). In his mind, he is getting lots of free advertising (he doesn't own 100) and laughing all of the way to the bank. Not the same situation, but thought some may find the humor in it - not to make light of the issue.
 

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Thanks for the comments guys. Classic's sell a lot of my blanks and I get lots of request for my Ïronclad" blanks. I was pointed to this add by a customer who wanted a blank made like the one in the add. I told the customer that I did not make it to which he replied, but its an ironclad. So there is an association with the name.

I did email the guy and asked him to call the blank something else. I thought I was very nice about it, but I got a rather long nasty email back. He stated that he did not make the blank and in fact had bought it from a member here who sold it as an Ironclad. Hence my example of the Brooks Blanks. Although he is very upset with me, the guy was merely selling by the name in which he bought the blank. So I can't really be upset with him.

BSea, We do associate styles by names people have given them. We all try and copy them to make something of our own. I did it with the ironclads with the blessing of jjartwood. Many guys on here make the foil blanks and are far better at it than me. But they have there on name for them. I didn't want to use the term steampunk, but rather something that would identify my blanks. I actually asked Mark to name the blanks since he came up with the concept.

I guess in reality I shouldn't have said anything. If people want to call them ironclads I should be flattered like Warren said.
 
Kent:

I commend your graciousness to see a reasonable opinion of the events! Its nice to read a logical opinion for something that is understandably something you take pride in.

By the way, I admire your work! Its nice inspiration. I enjoy making the "foil" blanks for personal use, and its nice to know some of the line of history of its origins, I really appreciate the background.
 
Thanks for the comments guys. Classic's sell a lot of my blanks and I get lots of request for my Ïronclad" blanks. I was pointed to this add by a customer who wanted a blank made like the one in the add. I told the customer that I did not make it to which he replied, but its an ironclad. So there is an association with the name.

I did email the guy and asked him to call the blank something else. I thought I was very nice about it, but I got a rather long nasty email back. He stated that he did not make the blank and in fact had bought it from a member here who sold it as an Ironclad. Hence my example of the Brooks Blanks. Although he is very upset with me, the guy was merely selling by the name in which he bought the blank. So I can't really be upset with him.

BSea, We do associate styles by names people have given them. We all try and copy them to make something of our own. I did it with the ironclads with the blessing of jjartwood. Many guys on here make the foil blanks and are far better at it than me. But they have there on name for them. I didn't want to use the term steampunk, but rather something that would identify my blanks. I actually asked Mark to name the blanks since he came up with the concept.

I guess in reality I shouldn't have said anything. If people want to call them ironclads I should be flattered like Warren said.

OK so, I'm trying to understand your claim and work out what's what and, I would be pretty upset if anyone would start naming their made blanks, with the same name as any of mine, surely if they had the brains to make them, they would have the brains to find their own name for what they did unless, they are deliberately copying the name because the blanks is "Famous"/well sourced/sell well and at good prices.

I would simple has if he/she would like also to share the expenses/costs to have the blanks promoted, advertised, and anything that was involved with what made it them been so well accepted and sourced.

In this case, I certainly would not be flattered at all, in fact, would show me what sort of "dubious character" this person has.

HOWEVER, and I think this is equally important to mention, and that is what some people think of the names they see on certain type of blanks. It has been already mention here, how the word "Worthless" has been used by some and how is perfectly possible that these people are simply not aware that "worthless blanks" is the name that Curtis used to promote his bits of wood and resin cast combinations.

Sure, Curtis already made public that he doesn't mind that people use that name to refer to their own cast blanks however, I don't think that Curtis would be too happy if someone started to produce quantities of these type blanks and advertise them as "Worthless wood blanks".

On the other hand, I take more into consideration what was the real intention of using someone else's name and one that is well known and sell well, was it done deliberately to take advantage of the work that was done to make it reach such acceptance and fame...??? I have a name for that and ain't pretty..!:mad:

It is true also that, some people do believe that Worthless wood blanks (just as an example, again), is a specific "type" of pen blank and not a personal name given to a product, in fact, it can all become very confusing however, is important that new people to the world of pen turning, learn to associate the name of the product with the people that made it and then learn the styles/types of pen blanks offered out there, such as raw wood blanks, stabilized wood blanks, wood and resin cast blanks, solid resin/acrylic blanks, etc, etc,.

After all the initial confusion dust has passed, it is all very simple...!

My question still stands, as and per red marked on the quote, who was the person from IAP that sold the blanks to this fellow...???

Cheers
George
 
Getting a nasty response may make me feel different! :mad::confused:

That's unfortunate

Does it look like yours? I assume you can spot some little nuances on some of them.

Who knows, you've pointed it out, they've gotta deal with it after that. Just get your dang shoulder fixed and get to cranking in the shop! :biggrin:
 
Certainly not the first time this has happened. What about Bruce who started making the circuit board blanks? Was Curtis the first person to use the words worthless wood? Can't say I remember that, but he surely wasn't the first person to cast resin about partial blanks. The first ones I saw were from Pat Ankrom. Over the years, some people either dropped off the site, or stopped showing new innovation because it was always copied. How about the laser inlayed blanks? Ken was the first one to do that I think, but lots make them now. Seems like standard operating procedure for pen makers.
 
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Thanks for the comments guys. Classic's sell a lot of my blanks and I get lots of request for my Ïronclad" blanks. I was pointed to this add by a customer who wanted a blank made like the one in the add. I told the customer that I did not make it to which he replied, but its an ironclad. So there is an association with the name.

I did email the guy and asked him to call the blank something else. I thought I was very nice about it, but I got a rather long nasty email back. He stated that he did not make the blank and in fact had bought it from a member here who sold it as an Ironclad. Hence my example of the Brooks Blanks. Although he is very upset with me, the guy was merely selling by the name in which he bought the blank. So I can't really be upset with him.

BSea, We do associate styles by names people have given them. We all try and copy them to make something of our own. I did it with the ironclads with the blessing of jjartwood. Many guys on here make the foil blanks and are far better at it than me. But they have there on name for them. I didn't want to use the term steampunk, but rather something that would identify my blanks. I actually asked Mark to name the blanks since he came up with the concept.

I guess in reality I shouldn't have said anything. If people want to call them ironclads I should be flattered like Warren said.

OK so, I'm trying to understand your claim and work out what's what and, I would be pretty upset if anyone would start naming their made blanks, with the same name as any of mine, surely if they had the brains to make them, they would have the brains to find their own name for what they did unless, they are deliberately copying the name because the blanks is "Famous"/well sourced/sell well and at good prices.

I would simple has if he/she would like also to share the expenses/costs to have the blanks promoted, advertised, and anything that was involved with what made it them been so well accepted and sourced.

In this case, I certainly would not be flattered at all, in fact, would show me what sort of "dubious character" this person has.

HOWEVER, and I think this is equally important to mention, and that is what some people think of the names they see on certain type of blanks. It has been already mention here, how the word "Worthless" has been used by some and how is perfectly possible that these people are simply not aware that "worthless blanks" is the name that Curtis used to promote his bits of wood and resin cast combinations.

Sure, Curtis already made public that he doesn't mind that people use that name to refer to their own cast blanks however, I don't think that Curtis would be too happy if someone started to produce quantities of these type blanks and advertise them as "Worthless wood blanks".

On the other hand, I take more into consideration what was the real intention of using someone else's name and one that is well known and sell well, was it done deliberately to take advantage of the work that was done to make it reach such acceptance and fame...??? I have a name for that and ain't pretty..!:mad:

It is true also that, some people do believe that Worthless wood blanks (just as an example, again), is a specific "type" of pen blank and not a personal name given to a product, in fact, it can all become very confusing however, is important that new people to the world of pen turning, learn to associate the name of the product with the people that made it and then learn the styles/types of pen blanks offered out there, such as raw wood blanks, stabilized wood blanks, wood and resin cast blanks, solid resin/acrylic blanks, etc, etc,.

After all the initial confusion dust has passed, it is all very simple...!

My question still stands, as and per red marked on the quote, who was the person from IAP that sold the blanks to this fellow...???

Cheers
George
George, if the Ebay'er bought it as a Iron Clad blank he just might have bought it from me at Classic Nib as Kent is our Vendor partner and we sell his blanks. Kent and I discussed using the name Iron Clad on his blanks on my site to differentiate his blanks from anyone else who might make a similar type blank. We have no control over who purchases them and what they do with them.
 
George, if the Ebay'er bought it as a Iron Clad blank he just might have bought it from me at Classic Nib as Kent is our Vendor partner and we sell his blanks. Kent and I discussed using the name Iron Clad on his blanks on my site to differentiate his blanks from anyone else who might make a similar type blank. We have no control over who purchases them and what they do with them.

Well, that is a very different thing all together, and correct me if I'm not right but, I was under the impression that, someone was making identical blanks and name them the same as the originator...! I already expressed what I think of that however, the example that you are giving me is under a very different category, if I make a specific blank, name it and them on eBay, private store or somewhere else, I would appreciate that the buyer with give me the credit as the "maker" and for that, the only thing he or she needs to do, is to call it or, refer to the blank by its true name, mentioning the maker, is optional and always appreciated, some "recognition" is probably all I expect for all the troubles, a few extra dollars are just a bonus...!

So, if someone buys a blank that is properly name, makes a nice pen, sell it and make no mention of the blanks maker/name but instead put the effort and recognition to the work he or she done by transforming that blank with a great degree of craftsmanship into a beautiful writing instrument, I accept that fully and no questions asked.

If someone buys that blank from me, sells it or gives it away, I would expect the true blanks name to follow that blanks, regardless where it end-up, again, that would not only be expected but probably, the only way to refer back to, if that person likes it and want some more...!

These are all normal scenarios and no reason for argumentation however, making blanks that are identical to someone else's and deliberately put them on sale with the same name as the blanks' originator/inventor for their own personal game, that I have a problem with and I hope that, no one has the bad taste to say to me, "that is all part of business...!":mad:

Off-course, to some, this may look all relative and irrelevant, and while I will have to respect it, doesn't make me have to agree with it...!:wink::biggrin:

PS: I've got nothing against people selling someone else products in their store, if that is what has been agreed upon however, I will do whatever it takes to make sure, only I sell my own products, this is off-course my personal decision based on my own circumstances...!

Cheers
George
 
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To answer the question George, It was Not one of my blanks, so it did not come from Classic's either. From the description the guy wrote about the blank it was worded as if he had made the blank. Plus it was made with an American flag decal which I have not done. It was in his hostel reply that he said he bought it from a member here. Which could just be a way to cover his tracks.
 
Unless you have the trademarked or copyrighted this person can do what he is doing. Your case demonstrate4s one of the draw back with the internet,......one's ideas / designs/ work can be almost instantly copied by others.
 
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