Segmentation

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Phixius

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Mar 21, 2019
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Is there an app or a phone program that will you too see what segmented pen will look like after you lathe away all the waste or a book for that matter or maybe a book of how to do segmentation...

Thanks I'm advance,



C Kevin Mathews
Psalm 46:1
 
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magpens

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There is a pen-making how-to book by Richard Kleinhenz and it includes material on segmentation.

Richard Kleinhenz was one of the "pioneers" in our craft but is no longer with us, unfortunately.

A google search for him, including the words "pen making book" brings up the book title (available at Amazon), and there may be more than one.
 

jttheclockman

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NJ, USA.
I agree check the library and also check the forum under segmenting. There are many cool ideas running through there and threads dealing with them. The best segmenter that was ever on here is no longer with us but went by the name of "Eagle" If you can find some of his work and notes, whenever he gave them, is a great look and read. I still want to make a couple of his blanks that I have bookmarked. He was a talent.

Then there comes the practice of just throw it together and spin it. Do not have to put tubes in it. Just keep some notes for yourself. Sometimes it is tuff to visualize a blank from its flat state to its rounded state. But that is what makes it fun. After awhile you develop certain techniques and you automatically know what it will look like. Then there is times when you see a blank and wonder how in the world was that made. A true example of that was when the 360 degree herringbone design was introduced. Was a well kept secret for a long time and then when secret got out it exploded. Same goes for these GISI pens which I am sick and tired of seeing aready. Know when to move on. Being creative is not hard at all. Just let the mind wander. I was in Home Depot the other day and found something that I want to try for a blank that I have not seen. Not sure if I can find a kit large enough to handle it but it is in the rolodex in my mind. Good luck and if questions come up, shoot them out.
 

John Eldeen

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Apr 3, 2019
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Sacramento, CA
As others have said the previous posts and the library are great resources to start. If I am playing with an idea that I am not sure how it will look sometimes I will start by drawing it in 3d using sketch up. It also is not a bad way to spend a Saturday morning before I can make noise in the shop. šŸ˜‰
 

WarEagle90

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Apr 28, 2019
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Location
Waverly Alabama
Let me start by acknowledging that I am not a segmenter, the next segmented blank I make will be my first. I'm still perfecting my skills at turning a square blank round!! So take what I am about to say and show with a grain of salt. Also, the suggestions presented to check out the IAP library is excellent. I've spent many hours browsing it and dreaming ........... one day I'll be able to do that and that and that .............!!

Kevin, thanks for asking this question. It never occurred to me to model a segmented blank and I do a lot of 3D modeling, a lot. But your question got me to thinking, so here goes.

I use Fusion 360 to create various 3D models for 3D printing or full size building. When Kevin asked his question it dawned on me that what he was wanting to do could be modeled in Fusion. So, into Fusion I go and here is what resulted. First up is a simple segementing that is straight forward but doesn't really show the power of modeling.

Blank 1:

Blank 1.jpg


Blank 1 Turned:

Blank 1 Turned.jpg


Pretty simple but quite plain.

Blank 2:

Blank 2.jpg


Blank 2 turned:

Blank 2 Turned.jpg


A little more character.

Blank 3

Blank 3.jpg


Blank 3 turned:

Blank 3 Turned.jpg


We're getting there.

Blank 4:

Blank 4.jpg


Blank 4 turned:

Blank 4 Turned.jpg


Much better.

Blank 5:

Blank 5.jpg


Blank 5 turned:

Blank 5 Turned.jpg



That's the power of modeling.

Now, I know all this (segmenting) is elementary to those that have mastered this skill and there are many on here that certainly have done that and I admire greatly. But for those of us that are still very wet behind the ears when it comes to segmenting, modeling can be a great tool to visualize ideas before we start making sawdust. Yes, not everyone has the skill set to create 3D models just like not everyone has the skill set to make beautiful segmented blanks ............ right up to the point we make our first one of either. I'm not advocating that modeling is for everyone, just one way to use another tool to help visualize ideas. Fusion 360 is free to hobbyist and really not that hard to learn. There are many training videos available on u-tube. Just an option.
 

magpens

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Dan, thank you very much for opening my eyes to the power of modelling (our collective eyes also).
I think that what you have shown above is extremely helpful and valuable !!
I always knew that a Celtic Knot came out like that, but I have never made one.
Now that I see what you have shown, I am inspired to try a little modelling for myself because I have more faith in mathematics (which is the power behind the modelling) than I have in my own segmenting skills.
Bravo ! . Thanks again !!
 

mark james

IAP Collection, Curator
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
12,720
Location
Medina, Ohio
Let me start by acknowledging that I am not a segmenter, the next segmented blank I make will be my first. I'm still perfecting my skills at turning a square blank round!! So take what I am about to say and show with a grain of salt. Also, the suggestions presented to check out the IAP library is excellent. I've spent many hours browsing it and dreaming ........... one day I'll be able to do that and that and that .............!!

Kevin, thanks for asking this question. It never occurred to me to model a segmented blank and I do a lot of 3D modeling, a lot. But your question got me to thinking, so here goes.

I use Fusion 360 to create various 3D models for 3D printing or full size building. When Kevin asked his question it dawned on me that what he was wanting to do could be modeled in Fusion. So, into Fusion I go and here is what resulted. First up is a simple segementing that is straight forward but doesn't really show the power of modeling.

Blank 1:

View attachment 233337

Blank 1 Turned:

View attachment 233338

Pretty simple but quite plain.

Blank 2:

View attachment 233339

Blank 2 turned:

View attachment 233340

A little more character.

Blank 3

View attachment 233342

Blank 3 turned:

View attachment 233341

We're getting there.

Blank 4:

View attachment 233344

Blank 4 turned:

View attachment 233343

Much better.

Blank 5:

View attachment 233346

Blank 5 turned:

View attachment 233345


That's the power of modeling.

Now, I know all this (segmenting) is elementary to those that have mastered this skill and there are many on here that certainly have done that and I admire greatly. But for those of us that are still very wet behind the ears when it comes to segmenting, modeling can be a great tool to visualize ideas before we start making sawdust. Yes, not everyone has the skill set to create 3D models just like not everyone has the skill set to make beautiful segmented blanks ............ right up to the point we make our first one of either. I'm not advocating that modeling is for everyone, just one way to use another tool to help visualize ideas. Fusion 360 is free to hobbyist and really not that hard to learn. There are many training videos available on u-tube. Just an option.

Modeling is another "available tool." I see no reason why anyone with the skills and knowledge for these tools should not use them. I see a lot of potential for this - go for it! ;)
 

WarEagle90

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Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
384
Location
Waverly Alabama
Dan, thank you very much for opening my eyes to the power of modelling (our collective eyes also).
I think that what you have shown above is extremely helpful and valuable !!
I always knew that a Celtic Knot came out like that, but I have never made one.
Now that I see what you have shown, I am inspired to try a little modelling for myself because I have more faith in mathematics (which is the power behind the modelling) than I have in my own segmenting skills.
Bravo ! . Thanks again !!

Thanks, Mal. I'm glad I can provide a little inspiration. Not only is math the power behind the modeling, the modeling can do the segmenting math for you and it will certainly show you the critical measuring points
 

WarEagle90

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Messages
384
Location
Waverly Alabama
Modeling is another "available tool." I see no reason why anyone with the skills and knowledge for these tools should not use them. I see a lot of potential for this - go for it! ;)


Thanks, Mark. Yes, just another tool and definitely not a substitute for making precise measurements, cuts and glue-ups :)
 

henry1164

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Jan 3, 2020
Messages
243
Location
Webster, NY
The modeling description is very helpful. As a new pen turner I have not worked with segmented items yet. Am I correct in the thought that with a segmented blank must be precisely drilled - not off center/angled - to produce that "perfect" look
 

magpens

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Messages
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Location
Canada
The modeling description is very helpful. As a new pen turner I have not worked with segmented items yet. Am I correct in the thought that with a segmented blank must be precisely drilled - not off center/angled - to produce that "perfect" look

YES ! .....unless, of course, you want to experiment with the variations introduced by off-center drilling.
 

WarEagle90

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Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
384
Location
Waverly Alabama
The modeling description is very helpful. As a new pen turner I have not worked with segmented items yet. Am I correct in the thought that with a segmented blank must be precisely drilled - not off center/angled - to produce that "perfect" look


As Mal has already stated, yes the drilling must be spot on. Below is two identical blanks except one was "drilled" of center by 2 degrees and you can see the results quite clearly.

Front view:

Blank 6 Off Center 1.jpg


Angled view:

Blank 6 Off Center 2.jpg


Does make quite a difference.
 
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