Segment advice

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keithbyrd

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I have done a fair number of segments and have only had one blow out. I also have never used epoxy. But being fearful I decided to use epoxy to make a couple of thin blue line pens. So I cut two African blackwood blanks and two Royal ebony blanks and blue plastic strips and epoxied them together. No problem until after I drilled them. Sharp bit, plenty of clean out, didn't get hot. But when all finished I simply picked them up, gave them a gentle twist and every one of them came apart.:mad::confused:
Is it the epoxy? I used Stick fast 5 min high strength. Is there a problem with plastic and epoxy? I did lightly sand to scuff it up.
I am guessing I should have stuck with the CA.
Any experience out there that can help?
 
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Hello Keith

I am probably not going to be able to answer your question about that glue. But I will say that any of the shorter time epoxy glues will not have the tensile strength as 24 hour epoxy. With that said as mentioned just because it has a 5 minute dry time does not mean the same cure time. Big difference and that goes for CA as well. Just because it is dry to the touch it is not cured. Finishes are this way also. I use SystemIII T88 epoxy and have had good luck with it for many different projects. Not saying there is no other epoxies out there that are just as good. I am sure there are but I have no experience with them.

I made this pen using maple and pickguard material and epoxied the pieces.



Now Med Ca will also work and I have on occasion used this. My CA is Satellite City Hot Stuff.

Now some points about your project. Whatever glue you use, let it cure before drilling. Sounds like you were able to get it drilled fine but decided to test the joints. I can tell you this all segmented joints will fail and the one exception will probably be wood to wood if Titebond II is used. But with that said the thing you need to realize is when you get the blank drilled you now will glue in a solid tube which will give support to all those small joints and pieces. That is why again I use my epoxy. It is strong and adheres to all materials but also stays flexible enough to allow movement if wood is used.

Now when a blank is completed it is now surrounded by components that will not allow you to pull the blank apart or twist it apart. If the pen is dropped on a solid surface all bets are off. But with epoxy once again you may have a fighting chance the glue will absorb the shock and no damage occurs. I have done this. I have never dropped one where it has broken apart but then again I rarely drop my pens.

That is about all I can add to this. Good luck.
 
Thank you for the feedback! I think the plastic is used is designed to not stick!
I tried to glue a couple pieces together with CA and after 2 hours with the slightest amount of pressure they separated. I am guess it is the plastic.
John T Those are some good tips - I will remember. But I am guessing on this one I would have never gotten it turned.
So I put an alumilite blank in the pressure pot a few minutes ago - I know acrylic will stick! Will slice it up and try again tomorrow!
 
keithbyrd said:
Thank you for the feedback! I think the plastic is used is designed to not stick!
I tried to glue a couple pieces together with CA and after 2 hours with the slightest amount of pressure they separated. I am guess it is the plastic.
John T Those are some good tips - I will remember. But I am guessing on this one I would have never gotten it turned.
So I put an alumilite blank in the pressure pot a few minutes ago - I know acrylic will stick! Will slice it up and try again tomorrow!
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While we are on the subject, I need to glue several acrylics into one pen blank. My plan is to stack "slices" of colored acrylic pen blanks to make horizontal stripes in the correct colors. I was going to divide the tube lengths by the number of colors to get the "slice width." I don't want the glue to show between the seams. Here are my questions:

* Which glue would you use to glue solid acrylic blank colors together in a "stack of slices"? The glue should be very clear and not show between the "slices."

* Will the glue add thickness to the blank? Should I include glue thickness in the calculation?
 
penicillin said:
While we are on the subject, I need to glue several acrylics into one pen blank. My plan is to stack "slices" of colored acrylic pen blanks to make horizontal stripes in the correct colors. I was going to divide the tube lengths by the number of colors to get the "slice width." I don't want the glue to show between the seams. Here are my questions:

* Which glue would you use to glue solid acrylic blank colors together in a "stack of slices"? The glue should be very clear and not show between the "slices."

* Will the glue add thickness to the blank? Should I include glue thickness in the calculation?
Click to expand...

Even though this is a thread from 2016 my answer back then is still the same today and with even more conviction because I have done many more examples of using epoxy glues. You can also use med CA but as I said CA is a brittle glue when dried unless you use the new flex glues. It can work just fine.

My suggestion to you is to help with the blowing up chances of this type segmenting, that you first and foremost roughen up the sides of the acrylic. Choose your material carefully. Not all plastics are meant to be glued. And finally I would do a stack build onto the tube as opposed to sstack building and then drilling. You drill the tube holes in each piece ahead of time and then as you stack them do so right on the tube and glue tube and material together. I would leave the 2 end pieces a bit proud of the tube so you can sand to flush for a perfect fit. I would knock off the corners before turning round to help with stress from turning. Can be done on bandsaw or with a sanding disc or belt sander but remember to avoid heat. heat is your enemy in the world of pen turning especially segmenting. Some people find wrapping in gauze or dripping CA on the finished blank before turning helps, but I do not in this case. It is a simple segmented blank. :smile::smile:Good luck.

One other thing you asked about allowing for glue thickness, the answer is no. Your fudge factor is in the end pieces and leaving them just proud of your tube length. When gluing together tighten just enough to hold together without gaps but do not do a death grip on it where you starve the joints. This is a technique that is so important in woodworking and you just develop a feel for it. I like to make striations in the ends of the acrylic with an exacto knife to add some tooth for the glue to settle into when squeezed together. I do this in woodworking as well. You can do this with a course sandpaper also say 80 to 100 grit. You do not want to use 220 grit or above. You are wasting your time.
 
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jttheclockman said:
My suggestion to you is to help with the blowing up chances of this type segmenting, that you first and foremost roughen up the sides of the acrylic. Choose your material carefully. Not all plastics are meant to be glued. And finally I would do a stack build onto the tube as opposed to stack building and then drilling. You drill the tube holes in each piece ahead of time and then as you stack them do so right on the tube and glue tube and material together. I would leave the 2 end pieces a bit proud of the tube so you can sand to flush for a perfect fit.
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I agree 100% with building the stack. I do this all the time. I slide the pieces over the tube, gluing as I go. Then I clamp the pieces once they are past the tube. Be sure all the pressure is on the pieces & not the tube. If the tube absorbes the pressure from the clamp, then you may have visible glue joints because the clamp isn't pressing the segments together. This may seem obvious, but I've seen it happen before. And 1 other tip is to use wax paper between the clamp, and the end pieces.


jttheclockman said:
One other thing you asked about allowing for glue thickness, the answer is no. Your fudge factor is in the end pieces and leaving them just proud of your tube length. When gluing together tighten just enough to hold together without gaps but do not do a death grip on it where you starve the joints. This is a technique that is so important in woodworking and you just develop a feel for it. I like to make strirations in the ends of the acrylic with an exacto knife to add some tooth for the glue to settle into when squeezed together. I do this in woodworking as well. You can do this with a course sandpaper also say 80 to 100 grit. You do not want to use 220 grit or above. You are wasting your time.
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Again I agree. All great suggestions.
 
Oh the old wax paper trick. Yes I have 2 rolls of it scattered about the shop. Use it many times for many applications and does save you from stuck things that are not intended to be stuck.:smile::smile::smile:
 
This has been very helpful advice. Thank you!

I encourage others to continue adding their suggestions, hints, and advice.
 
What John and Bob Wrote is exactly what I have done for ages. I particularly like the way they expressed it. Very clear and succinct as compared to how I usually describe it.
 
leehljp said:
What John and Bob Wrote is exactly what I have done for ages. I particularly like the way they expressed it. Very clear and succinct as compared to how I usually describe it.
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Hank that is not true.:smile::smile: You are one to take the time and post some real thought out responses many times and people sometimes overlook this but I notice and try at times to do the same. Hopefully our replys help others that we do not even know we touched. Keep doing what you do.
 
keithbyrd said:
Thank you for the feedback! I think the plastic is used is designed to not stick!
I tried to glue a couple pieces together with CA and after 2 hours with the slightest amount of pressure they separated. I am guess it is the plastic.
John T Those are some good tips - I will remember. But I am guessing on this one I would have never gotten it turned.
So I put an alumilite blank in the pressure pot a few minutes ago - I know acrylic will stick! Will slice it up and try again tomorrow!
Click to expand...
I posted this awhile back, you might find it useful.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f179/my-clamping-rig-segments-150566/?highlight=CLAMPING+RIG
 
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