router/lathe

[Dale Allen]

I finally finished this project. The real reason it took so long is that I was constantly trying to work out the process in my head and decide if it was safe.
These are the blanks I use for the cigar pens. My process is to glue the pieces, sand the sides even, mark and drill the ends with a center bit and run them through a round over bit on the router table. From there it previously took me about 30 minutes to turn the blank round and make sure it was a consistent diameter.
Now it takes about 6 minutes.
The fixture was previously made for milling operations but that did not work out too well. So I adapted my Colt palm router to it and this works great using a 1/4" up spiral bit. The router is mounted to a carriage that moves back and forth on 2 heavy duty drawer slides. It does not leave a real smooth finish but some sandpaper from this point does the trick.
BTW, I run the lathe at the slowest speed while the router bit is cutting.

 

[hanau]

pretty cool,
Need to shot a small video clip of it running.

 

[jttheclockman]

Hello Dale

Maybe I did not follow something from a previous posting or something but is the idea to make the blank round??? Wouldn't chucking in a lathe and using tools do the same thing?? That is how I round blanks and then go from there. With a set of calipers you get dead on accurate. Now I use a router in conjunction with a lathe for segmenting. Just curious thanks.

 

[Dale Allen]

I'm not sure this will work and sorry for the poor video quality...


well, I guess I don't know how to attach a video.

 

[Skie_M]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qt5ui3P9QA

Probably works something like that one, but probably not quite as crazy ....

People have been combining tools with lathe use for quite some time. Two of the craziest I have ever seen were one with a skil-saw (circular saw) free-hand ..... the other was with a gas powered chainsaw free-hand.

The guy in this video at least used a jig to steady his "floating router jig" and another jig secured to it for his pattern.

 

[Dale Allen]

Trying again....


https://vimeo.com/user88841746/review/286793545/5dd63262c7

 

[mark james]

Trying again....


https://vimeo.com/user88841746/review/286793545/5dd63262c7

Last link is not coming in. (I give you credit for trying!)

 

[Dale Allen]

Again..........


https://youtu.be/Tnsybn7xi9w

 

[Dale Allen]

Did that work?
Seems everybody wants my money and that other video service is a sham

 

[thewishman]

It works for me.

 

[TonyL]

I was browsing the PSI for stuff I don't need and saw this. I had not idea there was a use for it. I guess it approximates a Pen Wizard or something? https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LIXGA2.html

 

[mark james]

The link now seems to work.

 

[dogcatcher]

I was browsing the PSI for stuff I don't need and saw this. I had not idea there was a use for it. I guess it approximates a Pen Wizard or something? https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LIXGA2.html

It is a "knockoff" of JT The Clockman's inlay router jig. Actually it looks like a very good "knockoff". But you can build it cheaper.

 

[Skie_M]

That one works!

 

[jttheclockman]

I was browsing the PSI for stuff I don't need and saw this. I had not idea there was a use for it. I guess it approximates a Pen Wizard or something? https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LIXGA2.html

It is a "knockoff" of JT The Clockman's inlay router jig. Actually it looks like a very good "knockoff". But you can build it cheaper.

Someone remembered. The thing with the PSI one I am not sure you can set the tailstock close enough for a pen blank. If it can fit in the center of that platform then maybe.


http://www.penturners.org/forum/f179/my-jig-104253/

 

[JimB]

I was hoping Dale, or someone, would respond to John's question in post #3. I don't understand why the router with round over bit on the table and then a router and jig on the lathe is needed to round the blank. After the glue up can't this just be mounted on the lathe and turned in just a couple minutes?

 

[TonyL]

Someone remembered. The thing with the PSI one I am not sure you can set the tailstock close enough for a pen blank. If it can fit in the center of that platform then maybe.

The funny this, I still wouldn't know what to do with it. I guess it cuts more quickly and possible cleanly with router vs. a stationary chisel?

 

[Skie_M]

It can cut very very quickly with the router compared to the chisel .... just make sure the lathe is running at a fairly low speed so that the router can complete it's cuts properly, and move it slowly down the piece taking a reasonable cut depth each pass till you are pretty much done ...

Once you have gotten it to the template size, turn the router off and set it off to the side .... do your final adjustments with your tools or just sand and finish and you're done.

It may be that the router bit you are using is just too wide to get very fine detail, in some cases. You wouldn't want to use a fine point on your router bit to do all the roughing work, would you? That would wear it out in a hurry! More often than not, the router is set up to do 95% of the roughing work and get it CLOSE .... then the worker moves in with hand tools or a specialty scraper.

In an industrial setting, a special scraper with the EXACT final dimension form is used (or just a 1/16th of an inch larger .... maybe less ... just to allow for final sanding).

 

[dogcatcher]

You can also add another axis with another set of drawer slides at a right angel to the centerline of the lathe. I made one similar decades ago, using 4 drawer slides, as a lathe copy jig. I had 100 something stair balusters to make out walnut, the customer was a perfectionist, so close wasn't good enough for her. Buy only the better drawer slides, the cheap ones have too much slop in them.

 

[Dale Allen]

Well, I didn't expect this to lead to so much controversy.:biggrin:
So, let me be more clear and explain.
Until now I had been using a variety of tools to round the blanks. It worked but it was taking a lot of time. Since I am now in a sort of production state with these, I needed to cut out some of the time spent.
The jig I use to round the corners on the router table takes about a minute per blank. I set up to do up to 10 at a time so it goes quicker. That takes the corners off the blank. Pounding the corners off with ANY tool on the tool rest takes time. (BTW, I use the term 'pounding' here because in a sense that is what is happening. Four time per turn the wood is pounded against the tool and tool rest.)

Then by using this router fixture, I can take it to round in 3 or 4 passes depending on the blank.
One of the issues I always had was that the blank sometimes vibrates when turning the middle and leaves ridges that are difficult to sand out and takes even more time to take out with a scraper or skew. that doesn't happen with the router taking off the material. And, it gets the blank to a consistent round from end to end.


Now, I'd like to know of anyone who could take a square 7/8" stabilized wood blank that is about 7" long and turn it a consistent round in less than 10 minutes. I certainly can't. I can do it in about 30 minutes because I've timed it many times to see if I could better the time. And it is tiring and requires multiple tool sharpenings when doing more than one or two blanks.


This isn't for everyone. It is just a method I use. I still turn some blanks the regular way, but this just saves me some time. Time I'd rather spend doing something more enjoyable or productive.



And I certainly hope I'm not breaking some 'rule' that says you have to use the tool rest and gouge to do this!

 

[Dale Allen]

Also, this is not the final size of the finished blank. After this the blank is cut, drilled and the tubes glued in. Then another setup is used to final dimension the blanks.
So, this just needs to be sanded a little before it is cut.
And, keeping the blank a consistent diameter makes it easier to center it for drilling.

 

[TonyL]

Time I'd rather spend doing something more enjoyable or productive.

I am with you!

 

[jttheclockman]

Dale there is no controversy. Questions were asked that is all. If this works for you then go for it. If speed is a need in your life then by all means do it. We did not have all the info from your first post so we had no idea what you were even doing. Many ways to do woodworking of any kind. Good luck and have fun but be careful. Thanks for the update.

 

[Skie_M]

Hmmm ... I could probably do that with a stabilized blank (done it with hard/chippy acrylics easily enough) ... go from square to a smooth round cylinder in under 10 minutes.

I use very high speed and work from the ends to the center using a radius carbide cutter on my lathe. Once I'm close, I grab my abranet and do some high speed sanding with 180grit ... it cuts pretty fast and levels the blank out as well.

Grab the sandpaper (or abranet) at each end with your hands, with the abrasive material around the back of the spinning blank .... (keep the toolrest out of the way, of course)

Now ... in a DIAGONAL scheme, apply tension to the abrasive and sweep from one end of the blank to the other ... then as you reach the other end of the blank, you switch which hand is leading and sweep back to the other end, criss-crossing the blank with the abrasive to help level it quickly. Repeat until you have a nice smooth flat surface. The idea is to keep 1/4 to 1/2 of the blank WRAPPED in the abrasive and flat against the surface evenly during each pass, which will be extremely aggressive on the high points and bring them down to the low points quickly.

This is how I pre-round all of my blanks and make them smoothly uniform, which helps me seat the blank in my 3-jaw chuck for drilling... though I don't think I ever described my sanding methods before. I perform this task just as I get the blank completely rounded, WELL before I am anywhere near final diameter for a piece ... I then usually sand up to 1000 grit, apply BLO + CA (single coat) and then polish with Plast-X ... then the blank comes out of between centers and goes in the box till someone asks to see it.

 

[mmayo]

It is always good to try something new. Time is precious and if this gives you back 24 minutes per pen, bravo. Keep it up.

My goal is to become comfortable with the skew. Maybe it will reduce sanding time and tame tough grain.