Reality....

[maxwell_smart007]

I maintain that reality is an illusion caused by our inability to perceive the True nature of the universe - thus we bastardize it through interpreting it via our fallible senses...

And with that, I'm going to check out of this debate, read some Plato, and admire the philosophy degree gathering dust on my wall!

 

[Smitty37]

I maintain that reality is an illusion caused by our inability to perceive the True nature of the universe - thus we bastardize it through interpreting it via our fallible senses...

And with that, I'm going to check out of this debate, read some Plato, and admire the philosophy degree gathering dust on my wall!

I bleed for you.....but even worse for this site, my degree is in political science. BTW one of the best engineers I ever worked with had a degree in Philosophy.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I maintain that reality is an illusion caused by our inability to perceive the True nature of the universe - thus we bastardize it through interpreting it via our fallible senses...

And with that, I'm going to check out of this debate, read some Plato, and admire the philosophy degree gathering dust on my wall!

I bleed for you.....but even worse for this site, my degree is in political science.

I thought about poli sci - took a few courses, but it wasn't exciting enough for me. Beyond my Philosophy degree, my other degrees are a Bachelor of Education (useful) and an advanced degree in Classics, focusing on Roman History!

I took 120 percent of a courseload every year, and such a wide variety of courses that I could major in anything I wanted, essentially...why I chose Philosophy, I'll never know! (ironically)

(sadly, I'm still paying for them - anyone want to pay off one of my degrees? :biggrin

 

[maxwell_smart007]

BTW one of the best engineers I ever worked with had a degree in Philosophy.

Besides making one the subject of ridicule, I maintain that some education in classical Philosophy is absolutely essential to anyone who wants to learn how to think outside the box.

 

[LeeR]

Do threads like this happen often ???

In reality, my perception is that they do ...

 

[Krudwig]

Four blind men each are asked what a elephant is like while each examines different parts of said elephant. One holding the trunk another holding a tail as so forth. Each will give a different view of what an elephant is like and so the philosopher says no one can say what is true or real it's all depends upon our perceptions. This illustration has been used to prove the position that we each have our own reality and it depends upon where we are as to how we perceive it. No one can know what is true because none of us have enough information to go on. Problems of course come from the illustration because the truth is that all are equally wrong because in fact had a sighted man arrived on the seen and describe for them the elephant they would not say its like a snake or rope or a whale. Each blind mans opinion on what an elephant is like are not equally true but equally false! All opinions are not equally right as I stared earlier wham I said we've moved for the concept that everybody has a right to his or her opinion to every opinion is equally right! Some reject truth and reality saying we can't know cause we are like the blind men. The truth is some things are facts wether we choose to accept them or not. The fact that Nelson Mandela lived and died here on planet earth is not an opinion or a perception but a fact. The elephant was in fact an elephant regardless of how the blind men experienced it! We all may not have a full picture of reality and we may experience it differently from our own perspective but it doesn't alter the fact that it is reality! The elephant was and is and always will be an elephant not an illusion. Life is reality.
Again I'm voicing my personal convictions

 

[tbroye]

It is 6:10am PST, it is dark and cold outside. Is this reality or my perception? Coffee is a little strong this morning so look out. Have a Happy and Safe New Year celebration.

 

[Smitty37]

I maintain that reality is an illusion caused by our inability to perceive the True nature of the universe - thus we bastardize it through interpreting it via our fallible senses...

And with that, I'm going to check out of this debate, read some Plato, and admire the philosophy degree gathering dust on my wall!

I bleed for you.....but even worse for this site, my degree is in political science.

I thought about poli sci - took a few courses, but it wasn't exciting enough for me. Beyond my Philosophy degree, my other degrees are a Bachelor of Education (useful) and an advanced degree in Classics, focusing on Roman History!

I took 120 percent of a courseload every year, and such a wide variety of courses that I could major in anything I wanted, essentially...why I chose Philosophy, I'll never know! (ironically)

(sadly, I'm still paying for them - anyone want to pay off one of my degrees? :biggrin

I have 148 semester hours on my transcript and my official degree is BS in Liberal Studies with a concentration in Political Science in addition to that transcript I also have 12 undergraduate credit hours in accounting and 9 graduate credit hours in Engineering Management taught by MIT professors and attended a 10 week Manufacturing Technology Institute put on by IBM where the instructors all had advanced degrees in the area of the subject matter they were teaching. Aside from that I also attended 26 weeks 8 hours a day of ET Class A school when I joined the Navy and had over 1500 class room hours in technical subjects and 200 hours in management related subjects at IBM. Additionally I completed three correspondance courses and took real estate sales person and real estate broker courses for both NY an PA.

 

[Smitty37]

Four blind men each are asked what a elephant is like while each examines different parts of said elephant. One holding the trunk another holding a tail as so forth. Each will give a different view of what an elephant is like and so the philosopher says no one can say what is true or real it's all depends upon our perceptions. This illustration has been used to prove the position that we each have our own reality and it depends upon where we are as to how we perceive it. No one can know what is true because none of us have enough information to go on. Problems of course come from the illustration because the truth is that all are equally wrong because in fact had a sighted man arrived on the seen and describe for them the elephant they would not say its like a snake or rope or a whale. Each blind mans opinion on what an elephant is like are not equally true but equally false! All opinions are not equally right as I stared earlier wham I said we've moved for the concept that everybody has a right to his or her opinion to every opinion is equally right! Some reject truth and reality saying we can't know cause we are like the blind men. The truth is some things are facts wether we choose to accept them or not. The fact that Nelson Mandela lived and died here on planet earth is not an opinion or a perception but a fact. The elephant was in fact an elephant regardless of how the blind men experienced it! We all may not have a full picture of reality and we may experience it differently from our own perspective but it doesn't alter the fact that it is reality! The elephant was and is and always will be an elephant not an illusion. Life is reality.
Again I'm voicing my personal convictions

I discussed this with all of my six children at one time or another. I used to tell them "yes, you have a right to your own opinion, so long as your opinion is not contradicted by facts. I told them "If you hold an opinion contradicted by facts you are just flat wrong and your opinion is not valid"

 

[Smitty37]

It is 6:10am PST, it is dark and cold outside. Is this reality or my perception? Coffee is a little strong this morning so look out. Have a Happy and Safe New Year celebration.

Sleeping in again I was up for hours before that.:biggrin::biggrin:

 

[JP61]

For homo sapiens, without perception nothing exists.

My perception of that statement is that it is Wrong.

Could you give a brief explanation why you think this view is Wrong? I'm interested to hear your opinion. Also, before you reply, read post #1 again. I believe there's a key word there, spelled PERSONAL.

 

[monark88]

BTW one of the best engineers I ever worked with had a degree in Philosophy.

Besides making one the subject of ridicule, I maintain that some education in classical Philosophy is absolutely essential to anyone who wants to learn how to think outside the box.

Couldn't agree more. Read or reread Niccolo Machiavelli works, in addition to Plato and others, of course.

This a good thread for making one, Think, hopefully.

Sorry, but since we're on degrees attained. Mine is Bs History(Hispanic, S American), Grad; Special Ed and a master's in Am. History, short of the defense of Thesis.

 

[Smitty37]

For homo sapiens, without perception nothing exists.

My perception of that statement is that it is Wrong.

Could you give a brief explanation why you think this view is Wrong? I'm interested to hear your opinion. Also, before you reply, read post #1 again. I believe there's a key word there, spelled PERSONAL.

Perhaps you should read post #1 again - I wrote it.

I am not going to get into a philosophy 101 metaphysics debate - been there, done that.

I believe the universe is physical and real. that things can and do happen whether we are there to observe them or not. Worms may not know that humans, or lions or bears exist but that does not change the reality that such things do exist.

My positiion is simply that real is real regardless of our perception of it or lack thereof.

 

[JP61]

For homo sapiens, without perception nothing exists.

My perception of that statement is that it is Wrong.

Could you give a brief explanation why you think this view is Wrong? I'm interested to hear your opinion. Also, before you reply, read post #1 again. I believe there's a key word there, spelled PERSONAL.

Perhaps you should read post #1 again - I wrote it.

I am not going to get into a philosophy 101 metaphysics debate - been there, done that.

I believe the universe is physical and real. that things can and do happen whether we are there to observe them or not. Worms may not know that humans, or lions or bears exist but that does not change the reality that such things do exist.

My positiion is simply that real is real regardless of our perception of it or lack thereof.

Without your perception you believe nothing, real or otherwise. That's my final answer. Happy New Year!

 

[sbell111]

At the end of the day, none of that matters. Smitty got his dander up because a poster typed something like 'my reality is...'. Did Smitty understand that the poster actually meant that 'his experience' instead of 'his reality'? Of course he did. Given how often we hear some version of 'my reality', it's super unlikely that Smitty wasn't familiar with the saying. He just wanted to have an argument and feel morally superior.

Now, of course, he will be appear to give his rebuttal because he simply cannot exist without having the last word.

 

[tbroye]

Reality = Stanford will kick Michigan's butt tomorrow in the Rose Bowl for you on the East Coast and Mid West the Rose Bowl Today

 

[Smitty37]

And Steve Bell can't get into a discussion without making a personal comment about his opponent's (for want of a better word) motives, or character, then running for the hills.

At any rate, with 90 odd posts in the thread somebody must have thought it was a fun discussion..
HAPPY NEW YEAR MAY YOU ALL BE BLESSED THROUGHOUT 2014.

 

[SDB777]

My reality says...."When you beat a dead horse it makes no sense, but it does make a mess that needs to be cleaned up."



Scott (let's argue to argue without arguing) B

 

[sbell111]

And Steve Bell can't get into a discussion without making a personal comment about his opponent's (for want of a better word) motives, or character, then running for the hills.

At any rate, with 90 odd posts in the thread somebody must have thought it was a fun discussion..
HAPPY NEW YEAR MAY YOU ALL BE BLESSED THROUGHOUT 2014.

I made six posts to this thread. That's hardly 'running for the hills'.

Don't confuse someone's feeding your compulsion to have the last word with cowardice.

 

[Smitty37]

And Steve Bell can't get into a discussion without making a personal comment about his opponent's (for want of a better word) motives, or character, then running for the hills.

At any rate, with 90 odd posts in the thread somebody must have thought it was a fun discussion..
HAPPY NEW YEAR MAY YOU ALL BE BLESSED THROUGHOUT 2014.

I made six posts to this thread. That's hardly 'running for the hills'.

Don't confuse someone's feeding your compulsion to have the last word with cowardice.

And don't confuse your compulsion to start getting personal with courage. I was referring you your last post where you attempted to psycoanalyze me and my motives. You're like a kid on a playground who yells at another kid "Well you're an ----" and runs.

 

[Smitty37]

My reality says...."When you beat a dead horse it makes no sense, but it does make a mess that needs to be cleaned up."



Scott (let's argue to argue without arguing) B

Hmmm so you hear voices.....they used to tell me that was my conscience....:biggrin: I'm always amused by those who continue a thread to suggest it should be discontinued rather than just not going back to it anymore.

 

[knowltoh]

Reality = Stanford will kick Michigan's butt tomorrow in the Rose Bowl for you on the East Coast and Mid West the Rose Bowl Today

Reality = Stanford plays Michigan State and Stanford will get their butt kicked.

 

[sbell111]

Reality = Stanford will kick Michigan's butt tomorrow in the Rose Bowl for you on the East Coast and Mid West the Rose Bowl Today

Reality = Stanford plays Michigan State and Stanford will get their butt kicked.

Wait one minute. You guys can't have differing realities. That's not acceptable. There's only one possible reality. Heads will roll for this.

 

[tbroye]

Reality. It is the first of the month, now I have to pay the bills. Take that back I don't have to but like living in my house and having food to eat and pens to make. I took some time last year to get ready for today so I can do them while watch/listening to the Rose Parade. Have a great day.

 

[Smitty37]

Reality = Stanford will kick Michigan's butt tomorrow in the Rose Bowl for you on the East Coast and Mid West the Rose Bowl Today

Reality = Stanford plays Michigan State and Stanford will get their butt kicked.

Wait one minute. You guys can't have differing realities. That's not acceptable. There's only one possible reality. Heads will roll for this.

That's true. Nice to see you finally realize that.:biggrin:

 

[JP61]

When and why did we get in the habit of talking about "personal" reality? And, just what does that mean?

To me reality is reality - what is real is real. If it is reality it is reality for you, reality for me and reality for the guy behind that tree.

I think the implication is that if we all have our "personal reality" there is no reality.

We have also started taking staged, far out situations and creating a TV show out of them. We then call that Reality TV...well the TV show is real enough but the word is intended to imply that what is seen is real life situations, which it is not....

:biggrin: Hey Smitty, imagine you having a different life than your present.

Soon after your birth, you're isolated and remain that way for the first 25 years of your life. Then one day, I walk into your room and ask...... Smitty, what does reality mean to you?


Back to reality..... please type what your answer would be on that day.

 

[Smitty37]

.

:biggrin: Hey Smitty, imagine you having a different life than your present.

Soon after your birth, you're isolated and remain that way for the first 25 years of your life. Then one day, I walk into your room and ask...... Smitty, what does reality mean to you?


Back to reality..... please type what your answer would be on that day.

Obviously I would say nothing.

 

[JP61]

.

:biggrin: Hey Smitty, imagine you having a different life than your present.

Soon after your birth, you're isolated and remain that way for the first 25 years of your life. Then one day, I walk into your room and ask...... Smitty, what does reality mean to you?


Back to reality..... please type what your answer would be on that day.

Obviously I would say nothing.

Do you think your perception had any influence on you having the capability to form and state your opinion in either case?

 

[Smitty37]

.

:biggrin: Hey Smitty, imagine you having a different life than your present.

Soon after your birth, you're isolated and remain that way for the first 25 years of your life. Then one day, I walk into your room and ask...... Smitty, what does reality mean to you?


Back to reality..... please type what your answer would be on that day.

Obviously I would say nothing.

Do you think your perception had any influence on you having the capability to form and state your opinion in either case?

Joe, I told you already that I am not going to get into metaphysics. It can be fun but, over my lifetime, I have had as much fun with that subject as I will ever need.

 

[JP61]

.

:biggrin: Hey Smitty, imagine you having a different life than your present.

Soon after your birth, you're isolated and remain that way for the first 25 years of your life. Then one day, I walk into your room and ask...... Smitty, what does reality mean to you?


Back to reality..... please type what your answer would be on that day.

Obviously I would say nothing.

Do you think your perception had any influence on you having the capability to form and state your opinion in either case?

Joe, I told you already that I am not going to get into metaphysics. It can be fun but, over my lifetime, I have had as much fun with that subject as I will ever need.

Categorize it as you wish..... it's a simple question to the person that started this thread/topic. Though, I do understand why you're not willing to play along. :biggrin:

 

[Smitty37]

.

:biggrin: Hey Smitty, imagine you having a different life than your present.

Soon after your birth, you're isolated and remain that way for the first 25 years of your life. Then one day, I walk into your room and ask...... Smitty, what does reality mean to you?


Back to reality..... please type what your answer would be on that day.

Obviously I would say nothing.

Do you think your perception had any influence on you having the capability to form and state your opinion in either case?

Joe, I told you already that I am not going to get into metaphysics. It can be fun but, over my lifetime, I have had as much fun with that subject as I will ever need.

Categorize it as you wish..... it's a simple question to the person that started this thread/topic. Though, I do understand why you're not willing to play along. :biggrin:

Reality is that I believe it is a thinly disguised attempt to get me to enter a debate involving the metaphysics branch of philosophy.

Here is why

The thesis that metaphysics is impossible comes in what might be called strong and weak forms. Let us suppose that we are confident that we are able to identify every statement as either "a metaphysical statement" or "not a metaphysical statement." (We need not suppose that this ability is grounded in some non-trivial definition or account of metaphysics.) The strong form of the thesis is this: All metaphysical statements are meaningless. (At one time, an enemy of metaphysics might have been content to say that all metaphysical statements were false. But this is obviously not a possible thesis if the denial of a metaphysical statement must itself be a metaphysical statement.) The weak form of the thesis is this: metaphysical statements are meaningful, but human beings can never discover whether any metaphysical statement is true or false (or probable or improbable or warranted or unwarranted).

 

[tbroye]

What happened to Reality? 13 1/2 hours into 2014 and I am lost and confused and I am sober. Must be my old age. Out to the shop to play with my new toy until the Rose Bowl starts. Maybe I should Google Metaphysics

 

[maxwell_smart007]

What happened to Reality? 13 1/2 hours into 2014 and I am lost and confused and I am sober. Must be my old age. Out to the shop to play with my new toy until the Rose Bowl starts. Maybe I should Google Metaphysics

Didn't Smitty say the word Metaphysics enough? :biggrin:

Metaphysics - theories about reality
Epistemology - theories about knowledge
Ethics - theories about what is Just and Right

 

[Smitty37]

What happened to Reality? 13 1/2 hours into 2014 and I am lost and confused and I am sober. Must be my old age. Out to the shop to play with my new toy until the Rose Bowl starts. Maybe I should Google Metaphysics

If you think you are confused now just go ahead and do that.:biggrin::biggrin:

 

[JP61]

.

:biggrin: Hey Smitty, imagine you having a different life than your present.

Soon after your birth, you're isolated and remain that way for the first 25 years of your life. Then one day, I walk into your room and ask...... Smitty, what does reality mean to you?


Back to reality..... please type what your answer would be on that day.

Obviously I would say nothing.

Do you think your perception had any influence on you having the capability to form and state your opinion in either case?

Joe, I told you already that I am not going to get into metaphysics. It can be fun but, over my lifetime, I have had as much fun with that subject as I will ever need.

Categorize it as you wish..... it's a simple question to the person that started this thread/topic. Though, I do understand why you're not willing to play along. :biggrin:

Reality is that I believe it is a thinly disguised attempt to get me to enter a debate involving the metaphysics branch of philosophy.

Here is why

The thesis that metaphysics is impossible comes in what might be called strong and weak forms. Let us suppose that we are confident that we are able to identify every statement as either "a metaphysical statement" or "not a metaphysical statement." (We need not suppose that this ability is grounded in some non-trivial definition or account of metaphysics.) The strong form of the thesis is this: All metaphysical statements are meaningless. (At one time, an enemy of metaphysics might have been content to say that all metaphysical statements were false. But this is obviously not a possible thesis if the denial of a metaphysical statement must itself be a metaphysical statement.) The weak form of the thesis is this: metaphysical statements are meaningful, but human beings can never discover whether any metaphysical statement is true or false (or probable or improbable or warranted or unwarranted).

I forgot to tell you Smitty, that I'm not going to get into megadiversions. I've seen two years worth in this thread alone. :biggrin:

How about a yes, no or maybe answer?

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Twelve pages on Reality, when it's just back-and-forth between a few people, is likely plenty - don't you think?

Andrew
assistant moderator

 

[tbroye]

Just Googled Metaphysics. Sounds interestin,You guys have fun, I will check later and see how it's going. Keep it Civil. Off to the Dog Park with the 2 fur children

 

[JP61]

Twelve pages on Reality, when it's just back-and-forth between a few people, is likely plenty - don't you think?

Andrew
assistant moderator

It's a matter of perspective, but the reality of it is, that it's plenty when a moderator thinks it is.

 

[Smitty37]

.

:biggrin: Hey Smitty, imagine you having a different life than your present.

Soon after your birth, you're isolated and remain that way for the first 25 years of your life. Then one day, I walk into your room and ask...... Smitty, what does reality mean to you?


Back to reality..... please type what your answer would be on that day.

Obviously I would say nothing.

Do you think your perception had any influence on you having the capability to form and state your opinion in either case?

Joe, I told you already that I am not going to get into metaphysics. It can be fun but, over my lifetime, I have had as much fun with that subject as I will ever need.

Categorize it as you wish..... it's a simple question to the person that started this thread/topic. Though, I do understand why you're not willing to play along. :biggrin:

Reality is that I believe it is a thinly disguised attempt to get me to enter a debate involving the metaphysics branch of philosophy.

Here is why

The thesis that metaphysics is impossible comes in what might be called strong and weak forms. Let us suppose that we are confident that we are able to identify every statement as either "a metaphysical statement" or "not a metaphysical statement." (We need not suppose that this ability is grounded in some non-trivial definition or account of metaphysics.) The strong form of the thesis is this: All metaphysical statements are meaningless. (At one time, an enemy of metaphysics might have been content to say that all metaphysical statements were false. But this is obviously not a possible thesis if the denial of a metaphysical statement must itself be a metaphysical statement.) The weak form of the thesis is this: metaphysical statements are meaningful, but human beings can never discover whether any metaphysical statement is true or false (or probable or improbable or warranted or unwarranted).

I forgot to tell you Smitty, that I'm not going to get into megadiversions. I've seen two years worth in this thread alone. :biggrin:

How about a yes, no or maybe answer?

NO.

 

[Smitty37]

Twelve pages on Reality, when it's just back-and-forth between a few people, is likely plenty - don't you think?

Andrew
assistant moderator

It isn't political and it isn't religion and it has not become heated or uncivil. What then is the problem?