Questions/observations

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R

rimo

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
49
Location
Attleboro, MA, USA.
I am new to pen turning. I live in Massachusetts. I have made about 10 so far. Some have been pretty good, some not so much. It's the finish that I seem to be struggling with as have many others posting on this site.

I have read most if not all of the finishing threads as well as viewed the videos in the library. Most of the finishing threads assume that everyone reading knows how to properly sand their pens before finishing them. Yet when you read through most of the threads with finishing questions almost all point to poor sanding techniques either in the wood itself or on the finish.

I am sure that this will spark many variations to sanding techniques as seen in the many versions of the finishing techniques but I think it might help answer or eliminate a lot of the problems encountered by many of us newbies.

Does anyone have a tutorial/video or written procedure on a proper sanding technique? Not just which sand paper or MM to use but the actual steps. I see a lot of people writing about using the correct succession of grits, making sure to get rid of the scratches before moving on the the next level. Some people write that you should stop and sand lenghtwise then clean off the dust (some people recommend using DNA as well) before moving on to the next grit. I realize of course that there will be a learning curve regarding the touch and feel of sanding. Knowing how much pressure to apply and knowing when to move to the next grit etc.. Again, a lot of what is written assumes that everyone reading has the basics to build on.

I hope that this post hasn't taken too much of anyone's time or offended anyone that has posted any of the great pieces of information that is already here. This is truly a wonderful forum to learn about different techniques. You should all be proud of what you contribute to this site on a daily basis.

Thank you all for you contributions in advance.


Dave
 
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Look in the library and download some of the videos.
Most of the ones that cover making a pen or other turned objects cover sanding and finishing too.
I particularly like the Ed Davidson videos.
Opinions will differ, but you can't go too far wrong with using the advice of any experienced turner as a jumping off point.
After that, buy a bunch of extra 7mm tubes and make up a mess of blanks using some inexpensive hardwood.
Then you can experiment and find out what works best for you without risking an entire pen each time.
Hopefully others will chime in here. I'm a semi-beginner myself, so don't take anything I say as gospel.
 
First off welcome to the IAP forum.

The biggest breakthrough for me when it came to sanding was to sand with the grain before moving on to the next grit. After sanding with the lathe on, applying fairly light pressure. I turn the lathe off and then sand with the grain. Then I turn the lathe back on and wipe the blank down with one of those blue paper shop towels. Then I move onto sanding with the next grit with the lathe on. I do this through the whole progression of grits including the MM, except for the last 3 or 4 levels of MM. I find there is not much to be gained by sanding with the grain by the time you get to these.

Sanding with the grain takes longer and involves a bit more work than sanding with the lathe on, but it is the only way I know to get rid of radial scratches.

Some woods, burls in particular, don't need much sanding with the grain, mainly because the grain is all over the map.

I'm sure others with more experience will chime in and I look forward to reading their replies. I don't think there is a fast way to sand and finish a pen. It takes me longer to sand and finish a pen than it does to turn it.
 
Thanks to both of you for your responses. I will go back and check out Ed's videos again. I hope no one misunderstood my post, I am not looking for a cheap or easy way to do things. Just looking to get it right.

Thanks again

Dave
 
Dave

I did not mean to imply that you were looking for a cheap or easy way to do things with my comment "I don't think there is a fast way to sand and finish a pen."

It is merely a personal observation of mine that the sanding and finishing is more than half the work of making a pen.
 
Keith is correct. Make sure you don't miss the step of sanding with the grain.
I also clean the barrels up with a soft cloth between each sanding step to remove any grit that may have come loose.
 
I realize of course that there will be a learning curve regarding the touch and feel of sanding. Knowing how much pressure to apply and knowing when to move to the next grit etc.. Again, a lot of what is written assumes that everyone reading has the basics to build on.

This is where you have to get your feet wet. You can't swim without getting into the water and your parachute doesn't do any good inside the plane. What you are asking for is a step by step explanation that is virtually impossible. It has been mentioned to sand from end to end; around the pen, different sanding grits. Those are great, but beyond that, it is diving into it.

I suspect that you like lists that detail things. I work in an organization and do what I do fairly well. I was talking with a person last month that does well also. Some one called her and told her that they had gone by the "list" and were at a standstill as to what to do next. My friend's reply was - I am not there, I don't know what the situation is. I observe each situation and make adjustments based on observation and my own learned experience. AS we discussed this, we both came to the conclusion that the that more people depend on lists and steps, the less they like to "jump in".

There is no substitute for jumping in. What will happen if you do? You might ruin a blank or two or three or four. But the experience will be worth a $100 class.

At the point of sanding, the amount of pressure to apply and how to apply it are so subjective that there will be as almost many words to describe it as there are people here. You are now in this subjective world of wording that makes "listing" next to impossible, especially on subjects of "touch and feel". "Touch and Feel" are "experience" words that say "jump in" its fun in here!
 
As R2 remarked ... cleaning away any residue from a previous grit is very important when moving up to the next grit. Not skipping too far away from the previous grit also is important. I ALWAYS blow any dust off the lathe and wood I am working on just to keep a larger piece of grit from damaging the finish as I work. It does happen ya know. It is kinda like dropping your polishing cloth on the cement and not shaking it out. There is ALWAYS a piece of something lurking and it will cause great damage if not removed.

Sanding is not difficult. Start with a grit that begins to remove the tool marks left from turning. Always sand with the grain a bit to remove the heavier cut marks, then move up to a finer grit and repeat the steps all the way to the end of the sanding process.

I learned a long time ago that if the sandpaper gets hot, then you are sanding too hard or staying in one spot way to long. This is bad for many woods especially Snakewood which is just waiting to crack from any heat build-up.

Using Micro Mesh after the initial sanding is done out to around 600 grit will ensure a great surface for your finish. Remember that the better prepared you have your surfaces then the better the finish will be. Some will argue that there is not enough bite for the finish to adhere to the wood if it is taken out to 12000 MM, but that IMHO is just up to each and every one of us. I have never had any problem with ANY finish holding onto a piece of wood that has been sanded out to 12000 grit.

Another thing, learn early on that a scary sharp skew when used properly will definitely allow you to start with a much finer grit sandpaper. I turn mainly using my skew which is sharpened to a razor edge prior to each use. I also, polish the edge during the turning of my project. In the end I find that I have saved myself a lot of time in the long run.

Speaking of sharpening ... If you were to examine the edges of a tool under even a low power microscope one would immediately see the difference in edge quality of any tool that has been sharpened using a water cooled slow turning stone VS one that had been ground down on a high speed grinder. There just is no comparison to the slow turned and polished edge of water cooled sharpening devices. To test this out, sharpen a tool to your best ability on a grinding machine and THEN carefully test the edge with your fingernail by dragging the nail down the sharp edge. Then do the same tool on a water cooled slow speed sharpening device and retest your edge. There should be a major difference in sharpness between the two with the slow speed being the winner by a long shot.

This difference in edges will be evident in the appearance of the wood turned. The skew will also be the best of all the tools with the wood being far, far smoother and easier to finish. With practice you can get a surface that looks like it has been scraped with a cabinet scraper.

Sanding is just part of the making of anything we do. Sanding is also a very important skill that must be learned by experience of each and everyone of us. Take your time and do ALL the steps as your finished product will surely benefit from the time you spend sanding.

One last idea ... Always use the finest sandpaper designed for use on wood. If you don't then you are just wasting your time in the long run. And never use old paper from a previous project ... trouble lurks there ya know! :D
 
Thanks to all that have responded. I guess the answers have been there all along, i just needed to see it all put together.

It is not really lists that help me work better but the need to have a complete understanding of what I am doing. I consider myself somewhat of a perfectionist as I am sure most of you do as well. Don't take this the wrong way, I am not affraid to "jump in" and try anything. This is just the way I process things. I need to be able to understand and visualize what I am doing first. I believe it helps me to be better at the things I do. Once I have that comfort level in my head I feel that I can accomplish anything.

Thanks again for the positive comments. Hopefully I will have something to show off in the near future.

Dave
 
Dave, Some really good points spoken here. Watch Russ's video, use sharp tools and practice, practice, practice. You will get better week by week and not even notice it. You will form routines that you are not even aware you are doing. A light bulb or two will go off. You WILL get better because somethings you have accepted in the past are no longer acceptable. I still, and maybe will always, look at some of the photo albums and say to myself, how can a finish be so perfect???? Yet I look as a bunch of my pens and every once in a while, one will really be almost perfect, which a year or so ago, was never the case. Jump in the water, its fine! You will mess up blanks, but you will get better.
 
Dave,

I actually think your original post covers all the steps. Now it is just a matter of practise makes perfect. If I were to stress one thing, it would be to have a light touch. One thing you can do when you are done sanding to see if you have a smooth surface is to wet the surface with with something like acetone. Any scratches will show.

One more thing, some (perhaps many) will disagree, but imho when you sand your blanks you really don't need to go past 600/800 grit. Now the finish is another matter, I sand the finish through all the MM grits.

Where in Mass are you?

jeff

jeff
 
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