Question regarding layer dividers...

[Chrisrsnow]

Hello all and thank you in advance for all of your support and suggestions here. I have learned a lot since discovering this website a couple years ago. I have been making simple segmented blanks on my own for a few years now, mostly just gluing woods together or the occasional resin and wood glue-ups. I started using old gift cards a couple years ago, but had difficulty sourcing them until a recent discovery on amazon where I could purchase blank cards for this purpose. I've also used some veneers, though they are difficult to come by locally and very expensive when I do find some online. I recently discovered that my local metal warehouse which sells brass and copper also sells small pieces as fall offs from custom cut orders. I recently acquired a small stash of thin (1/16" or similar) brass and copper as well as some bluish mystery metal. I'd like to try using these as dividers for segmenting, but I am very nervous as to how well they will bond with other surfaces using epoxy, and how quickly they will dull out or possibly even destroy my tools. I do have a set of carbide insert tools that I planned to use for this, but I was curious if anyone else had used these in the past and had any input or suggestions?

 

[leehljp]

In the past, I used 1mm or 1/32 brass, aluminum and copper 1/16" is a little thick, and can dull both standard (HSS) tools and also carbide inserts, but the inserts will last longer. Many people have used cola cans without a problem. IF using HSS tools, time must be taken to keep the tools sharp. If you know and allow for the time to keep the HSS tools sharp during a turning, it is not a big problem.

I think you can order 6' square and different size sheets from Amazon.

My first segmented pen with brass spacers about 17 years ago:

Imported Photo from leehljp

Imported Photo from leehljp. Please edit title and description.

www.penturners.org

 

[Kenny Durrant]

I've used brass and aluminum. The aluminum was soda cans and the brass I bought from Michael's in small sheets. Like you I've used old gift cards and credit cards that worked well. I also bought guitar pick guard material from Stew Mac on line. I liked that you could get single color sheets and also layered as well. I liked the layered sheets to add a little more distinction between light and dark materials. As Lee mentioned keep your tools sharp. At first it was a challenge to keep from having a bump between the metal and soft materials.

 

[SteveG]

HSS is used for turning mid steel, and would work fine for the softer metals, especially the thin sheet stock. Carbide tooling will hardly even notice the brass and copper.

Bonding. The metal must be sanded to expose any surface coating, oxidation, etc. A medium grit is ideal, leaving a somewhat textured surface for the epoxy to grip. Perhaps do some testing on not so important materials, to see how your approach holds up.

 

[Mike]

The aluminum used in the bigger cans, like the Foster's "oil cans" of beer is a bit thicker if needed.
I have a friend that is a knife maker and he used a black material, then silver sheet, then more black material a spacers between the full tang and the antler on a knife he made for me. I don't know what the black stuff is. No lathe involved, of course, but it is beautiful.

Mike

 

[lyonsacc]

Clean (sometimes metal can have grease or oil on it), sand with 150 or low 200's sandpaper. Use a 5 minute (or what you usually use) epoxy.
Brass, copper and aluminum can be turned relatively easy with your usual tools. HOWEVER - be very careful. Spinning bits f metal can slice your finger very easily. If you are used to touching the wood surface while or after sanding, that metal could catch and slice. Be careful if you hold the sandpaper in your bare hand when you sand. I little catch to bend in the metal can cut as well. That being said. It is fun to do and looks great!

 

[Alan Morrison]

As above plus I have used the different coloured plastic from household containers.

Mark @mark james compiled a list of different items used in segmenting which is in the Library I believe.

 

[jttheclockman]

Christian welcome to the world of segmenting. There are many sources for segmenting materials and many different materials can be used. Keep an open mind. The very first place to look for answers and many suggestions is our great source of the Library. Wayne has done a great job indexing and making so easy to navigate it. You will find lists of material and list of sources to get materials. I do not use cans or lids or things like that. yes they can be used and others have great success. But it does take some cleaning and prep work to use them but I have no idea what they are actually made from. I do not know if lids are custom made to be food safe and they add extra ingredients and what that can do when segmented and so forth. So I buy raw materials that I know are used for our purposes and also other artforms such as cue making. I use Pic Guard material alot, vulcanized fiber paper (not G10), thin sheets of aluminum of various thickness as well as brass and copper, use wood veneers as well as acrylic sheets of various thickness and colors, and so forth. Many different sources. As far as prep it is basically the same for all materials. Need to clean and sand both sides of the material for segmenting as well as the blank you are gluing to. You want to use a low grit like 100 and sometimes I use 80 grit. This gives some tooth to the surfaces for the epoxy to adhere to. I do not like to use CA. CA is too brittle when dry and it does not build up unless you use thick CA. (we are talking segmenting now so do not get confused of use) Now doing simple wood to wood segmenting, woodworking glue like Titebond II or III works well. Many people like to use Titebond clear so it does not leave any visible glue lines. There are other tricks to avoid that too which can be found in library. It would take too long to write all this stuff. It has been discussed over the years and preserved in file format and that is why I push the reading of the articles in the library. Come back here with specific questions and we can help better. By the way as far as epoxy goes I am a huge fan of System 3 T88 epoxy. It is a long open time to work and takes over 24 hours to cure. Can not be in a hurry when doing segmenting work. I also suggest after the blank is drilled for tube, to use same epoxy to ahhere tube because it makes such a stronger bond to blank and is gap filling which is huge when doing this type work.

Good sharp bits are needed for drilling. Many ways to and tips for drilling and again in the library. Slow and steady is key. I like to use a round carbide cutter on all my blanks to get me to close to finish size and I always finish every blank I turn with a good sharp HSS skew. Gives me a clean straight to finishing blank. hardly any need for sanding.

As far as thickness of materials such as aluminum used is no rule so use whatever you want. I showed in another thread recently here a pen I made the blank from all aluminum. Here are a couple segmented pens I made using various thickness aluminum. They turned very easily. As far as keeping color, You can top coat with CA if you are worried about that. Aluminum does not change color so I do not top coat it. It can be polished.

 

[mark james]

This was compiled a few years ago, but is a good start to searching for materials, and useful keywords.

Segmenting Materials.

Enjoy.

 

[Chrisrsnow]

In the past, I used 1mm or 1/32 brass, aluminum and copper 1/16" is a little thick, and can dull both standard (HSS) tools and also carbide inserts, but the inserts will last longer. Many people have used cola cans without a problem. IF using HSS tools, time must be taken to keep the tools sharp. If you know and allow for the time to keep the HSS tools sharp during a turning, it is not a big problem.

I think you can order 6' square and different size sheets from Amazon.

My first segmented pen with brass spacers about 17 years ago:

Imported Photo from leehljp

Imported Photo from leehljp. Please edit title and description.

www.penturners.org

Beautiful... and thanks for the info.

 

[DRDJR]

By brother saves all the plastic bottle caps and has used them for spacers in the past. he takes a hole saw and drills out the top which makes a nice disk that can be added as a spacer. and throws the rest in a box and uses them whem pouring blanks

 

[Woodchipper]

Welcome to IAP. Segmenting is something I need to get into and away from plain vanilla blanks.
A good book is Turning Modified Slimline Pens, Beyond the Basics by Don Ward. Some chapters deal with using decorative layers and could be incorporated into other kit styles.

 

[BHuij]

If you're going to use metal, it's a good idea to know what it is before you cut it. Unlikely to encounter something from a shop like you described that will defeat carbide tools. I've successfully cut brass, and aluminum with both carbide and HSS tools. It will dull either one faster than wood or resin of course, but generally it's small/thin pieces in the segmenting rather than large sections, so I've never really worried about it.

As for a good bond, I tend to scuff all mating surfaces of any material with 120 grit sandpaper, clean thoroughly with acetone, allow to dry (only takes 30 seconds or so), and then bond with 24-hour epoxy. If at all possible, drill before gluing, especially if your segments are cut on an angle. That allows you to use the brass tube as an alignment rod, and eliminates the heat buildup from drilling after glue-up, which can cause epoxy to soften and fail even after being fully cured.

 

[Dalecamino]

I was inspired by Leehljp and others many years ago, to try this type of segmenting with a printed pattern that was glued to two sides of a blank, then cutting with a bandsaw. inserting the sheet metal between the two halves. I used aluminum from a dryer vent from Home Depot. I didn't get the metal lines to line up very well, but it was a fun project. I didn't notice any damage to my tool.

Here is a tutorial from the library.

 

[Trees2Pens]

I've used aluminum or copper roof flashing. Thick CA held well for drilling and turning.