POly CLay contest rules for the Bash.

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

mredburn

IAP Activities Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
8,752
Location
Fort Myers FL
We are happy to announce that This year we will have a contest just for Polymer Clay pens.
THe contest will be run by CREID (Curt Reid)
Read over the rules and post any suggestions or questions you may have.

2017 Poly Clay contest
________________________________________
Here are the proposed rules for the Poly Clay contest. Please review and let me know if you have any comments or criticisms, I have thick skin, so don't be shy.

Poly Clay contest
Entry Form
This contest is for blanks made from Polymer Clay.
This contest is open to everyone.
This contest conforms to the Universal Contest Rules, unless otherwise specified in the following rules for this contest.
1. The blanks for this contest are to be made with Polymer Clay only. There may be a finish over the polymer clay.
2. All blanks must be made into a pen (this is a penturners forum), there is no restriction on the type of pen, ballpoint, rollerball, fountain, kit or kitless. (you can only enter your pen in one contest)
REPLACED 3. The blanks and the pen made from the blank for this contest are to be made solely by the person entering the contest (with the exception that you may used purchased canes).
Number 3 will be changed to

3. The blanks and the pen made from the blank for this contest are to be made solely by the person entering the contest (with the exception that you may used purchased canes, but you must state in the description if you purchased the canes and where you purchased them from).


4. No use of CNC or Laser or your submission will be disqualified
5. The blanks must not be or have been shown anywhere on the IAP or anywhere else before the end of this contest or your submission will be disqualified.
6. You must submit two photos of the finished pen (do not put your name on the photo), having your name on a photo will have your entry returned to you for resubmission if there is enough time or if not enough time your submission will be disqualified. Remember that these photos are to show off the blank, so make sure your pen and photos shows off your blank.
7. Included with the pictures of your pen, you need to also submit a description of your blank that shows what kind of work went into the making of the blank, without saying something that will give away who you are. Keep this limited to 200 words or less.
Rule 7 will be changed to

7. Included with the pictures of your pen, you need to also submit a description of your blank that shows what kind of work went into the making of the blank, If you purchased the canes and if so where did you purchase them, without saying something that will give away who you are. Please remember to not put your name or your business name on the photos. Keep this limited to 200 words or less.


8. You must follow all the rules in the Universal Contest Rules that are not covered in the rules above.

9. All entries must be submitted using the entry form provided. Entry Form
10. All entries must be submitted by TBD
Judging for this contest will be by a vote of the members of the IAP, following the rules concerning voting in the Universal Contest Rules.

THe contest will open on Feb 1st and close on Feb 20th at Midnight.
Prizes
1st place TBD
2nd place TBD
3rd place TBD

All rules are subject to change for clarification or safety.
Please be creative and have a good time making your blanks and pens.
__________________
Curt
 
Last edited:
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

mredburn

IAP Activities Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
8,752
Location
Fort Myers FL
The entry forms will be provided when the contest is opened in February. Right now The rules are posted for review.
 

CREID

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
3,009
Location
Vancouver, wa
Shouldn't bought canes be prohibited?

I asked the question in the bash planning forum because I want to try and build what is a growing part of pen making (polyclay) the response I got was YES with someone commenting that in the description they should say whether the canes were purchased or not. It was also stated that we don't grow our own trees and make many of the other things we use to make pens out of. But my motive here is to get more people into doing polyclay since we had some nice pens come out of the contest last year when it was combined with basic casting.

But that is what this forum is about, asking questions. I am really not 100% set either way, but to grow the polyclay area, how difficult do we make it. I think most people including you would agree that a purchased cane doesn't guarantee an easy pen, there is a lot more to it.

I personally haven't made a polyclay pen, but I have purchased clay and have watched tons of videos and read many articles so my actual experience is still pretty nill. Hopefully in the near future, medical problems and other time consuming things will allow me to further my knowledge in this area.

So after all that, thanks for the question and lets see some more (hopefully many) people chime in on this question, because I really don't know at this point. I would really like to hear from some of the people that are working with polyclay.

By the way, that is the very question I was hoping for and look forward to more feedback.
 

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,083
Location
NJ, USA.
The blank is not a cane. It is multiples put together to form a blank. I go to do a cast on blank. I am not going to make the pieces that go into the blank. I am going to arrange them and cast to form a blank. I don't make watch faces or watch gears or tiny screws and so on. The projection of the canes or parts for casting and their presentation is what makes the blank. That is my take on this but I do not do clay pens but do make cast blanks. :)
 

edstreet

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
3,684
Location
No longer confused....
This is an old debate that will never be solved and there will never be a referendum made. One can spin it any number of ways to hide the issue, be it watch parts, growing trees, buying glue, buying tools and a slew of other things.

Also the point made is not exclusive to polymer clay canes. That point is the users who votes on the photo is basing he vote based on what they see and that is someone else's work. Rule #3 states made solely by the submitter yet allowances are made to buy works of art from others which can and will influence and sway voters. So there are several issues that should be addressed but in the end it won't be this year and anything that I point out will not be taken good and will only lend to hatred so I will bow out now while I can.
 

CREID

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
3,009
Location
Vancouver, wa
This is an old debate that will never be solved and there will never be a referendum made. One can spin it any number of ways to hide the issue, be it watch parts, growing trees, buying glue, buying tools and a slew of other things.

Also the point made is not exclusive to polymer clay canes. That point is the users who votes on the photo is basing he vote based on what they see and that is someone else's work. Rule #3 states made solely by the submitter yet allowances are made to buy works of art from others which can and will influence and sway voters. So there are several issues that should be addressed but in the end it won't be this year and anything that I point out will not be taken good and will only lend to hatred so I will bow out now while I can.

Well, nothing you say on this subject will lead to hatred from me. I bumped this post to put that subject in front of everyone. As for the rules, I wrote them and this particular thread is so that I can get as much information as I can, so that if I or if I get overruled for some reason the rules can be changed before the Bash starts. I do have that power. :eek:

As I stated before it was mentioned in the planning area we have before the populace sees the rules, someone mentioned that it should be stated whether you made the canes yourself so that can be taken into consideration when someone votes. I just haven't put that in there yet because I need more info from everyone.

Right now I have 2 people that have given me their comments on the situation. Hopefully before the Bash starts I get a lot more. Last year when this contest was part of the basic casting contest, I believe that we never mentioned canes at all in the rules, so that was left up to personal interpretation.

Another thing to consider is that this contest is open to everyone.

So come on people, these contests are yours and this is your chance to give input on how these contests will be run. Let's hear views from as many people as possible.
 

Bob Wemm

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
1,994
Location
Kalbarri, Western Australia
I would like to support Edstreet in this matter. It's true that we don't control what the trees look like, and there are a lot of Professional Polymer Clay Cane makers out there. Not many ordinary people can even dream of competing with them in the construction of canes.
With the use of canes all one is required to do is slice off a thin section and attach it to some kind of background, as many times as the heart requires. Admittedly there is some skill attached to the arrangement of such cane slices, but the result will always be more outstanding than something produced by ordinary people.
The rules say the blank must be made by the person entering the Contest, so to my mind this is a No-Brainer question, """no canes made by other people.""""
I've spent many hours constructing certain canes, but they never look as good as those "Pro" ones do.
As stated, the winners will be voted by people who like the "LOOK", without understanding what is involved.
Just my 2 bobs worth.

Bob
 

CREID

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
3,009
Location
Vancouver, wa
I would like to support Edstreet in this matter. It's true that we don't control what the trees look like, and there are a lot of Professional Polymer Clay Cane makers out there. Not many ordinary people can even dream of competing with them in the construction of canes.
With the use of canes all one is required to do is slice off a thin section and attach it to some kind of background, as many times as the heart requires. Admittedly there is some skill attached to the arrangement of such cane slices, but the result will always be more outstanding than something produced by ordinary people.
The rules say the blank must be made by the person entering the Contest, so to my mind this is a No-Brainer question, """no canes made by other people.""""
I've spent many hours constructing certain canes, but they never look as good as those "Pro" ones do.
As stated, the winners will be voted by people who like the "LOOK", without understanding what is involved.
Just my 2 bobs worth.

Bob
Noted Bob
Hope you are going to enter this years contest, your entry last year was great.
Glad to have your input.
 

RBcarving

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
156
Location
Shell Knob, MO
I agree with "NO canes made by others"...I have never made polyclay anything, though I will be doing my best (from scratch) and submitting it to the contest. The idea of "craftsmanship & artistry" should extend to the research, knowledge and ability of the creator.

Granted, those casting with pre-made materials do not make their trees or watch gears, etc, but that is self evident from the creation. I have cast clear resin, and I know that to do it well is an art in itself. Just my .02, no offense to anyone ;-)
 

Skie_M

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
2,737
Location
Lawton, Ok
I do agree with you guys on many of those points, but I also agree with CREID in that the polyclay field in general is just WAY TOO SMALL right now, and so many people have practically no experience working in it at this time.

I would have to say that at some point in the future, we could specify that you either have to create the canes yourself (complete self-made design and all) or you have to limit your cane purchases to those that are widely available (through a major vendor like PSI), so that the large majority of pen makers can still participate with little to no prior polyclay experience.
 

Bob Wemm

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
1,994
Location
Kalbarri, Western Australia
I do agree with you guys on many of those points, but I also agree with CREID in that the polyclay field in general is just WAY TOO SMALL right now, and so many people have practically no experience working in it at this time.

I would have to say that at some point in the future, we could specify that you either have to create the canes yourself (complete self-made design and all) or you have to limit your cane purchases to those that are widely available (through a major vendor like PSI), so that the large majority of pen makers can still participate with little to no prior polyclay experience.


Some Blank creations cannot be created without using "Other Parts" eg. Watch parts, stamps, corn cobs etc, the list is endless, but that is really not the point in this discussion, IMHO.
The point is, the rules say that the blank must be made by the person entering the contest, plain and simple. If purchased canes, or any other artistic creations are going to be allowed, then there must be a different set of rules.
As far as declaring in the statement whether there are other peoples creations being used in conjunction with the person entering the blank, I somehow doubt that the majority of members would read all that info before they vote. And if they do, then they will most likely still vote for the one they like the best.
My wife showed me how to make the pen blank that won the contest last year, and I have been to only 1 workshop where the production of canes was not covered, so I am by no means experienced with the making of canes.
Perhaps I will dig out some photos of the canes I've made so you guys can see what we are talking about.

Bob.
 

skiprat

Passed Away Mar 22, 2022
In Memoriam
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
7,812
Location
In a Skip in Wales
If you enter a pen with someone else's cane work, why not just say so?

''Here's a pen I made using a Butterfly cane from Toni and a Flower from Bob and my own other bits''

I can't do it, but I guess applying them and designing the arrangement of these minute slices of cane, is a skill too. Then there is the baking and turning...

That way, if you win a contest, then all the artists get the the acknowledgement.

If someone won a contest using something I had contributed, then I'd be proud, not peed off. It's pretty good advertising too......

Reminds me of the old saying...Be careful what you wish for, it might come true.:wink:
 

SSobel

Member
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
84
Location
Chesapeake, VA
My daughter will be making a couple pens for this category...and they will be completely her design. I think what comes out of a person's imagination is what makes the pen great. We could all just order cane from Toni, slice 'em up and mount them. Yes we do that with stamps, snake skin, and dozens of other products...but somehow, casting is different. Clay should bring out the artist in the individual.
 

Bob Wemm

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
1,994
Location
Kalbarri, Western Australia
If you enter a pen with someone else's cane work, why not just say so?

''Here's a pen I made using a Butterfly cane from Toni and a Flower from Bob and my own other bits''

I can't do it, but I guess applying them and designing the arrangement of these minute slices of cane, is a skill too. Then there is the baking and turning...

That way, if you win a contest, then all the artists get the the acknowledgement.

If someone won a contest using something I had contributed, then I'd be proud, not peed off. It's pretty good advertising too......

Reminds me of the old saying...Be careful what you wish for, it might come true.:wink:

You are so right Skip, as long as the main description of the pen "Clarifies" that there are other peoples work involved.

I'm just trying to make the field even, I'm sure that any Pen entered in this contest which contained slices of any of Toni's canes, or a few others would win the contest hands down. Absolutely no argument.

I'm also trying not to blow my own trumpet here, as mentioned, here are some of the canes that I have made, and I think you'll agree that there is no comparison with the standard of mine compared to some others.

Photo #1 & #3 are canes for a single petal, they are shaped and combined to make a flower.
Photo#2 & #4 are some blanks made with canes and other processes.
Photo #5 shows Butterfly that is made from two different canes, which took me 2 days to make.

Sorry if I have this all wrong, it's just how I feel.

Bob.
 

Attachments

  • 001.JPG
    001.JPG
    72.1 KB · Views: 192
  • 003.JPG
    003.JPG
    69.7 KB · Views: 190
  • 002.JPG
    002.JPG
    189.6 KB · Views: 205
  • 004.JPG
    004.JPG
    113.2 KB · Views: 185
  • 005.JPG
    005.JPG
    99.6 KB · Views: 180

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,083
Location
NJ, USA.
I will be honest with you and I do understand both views and I have no dog in this fight but will in the casting contest, it comes down to who cares. It is all about the look of the finished product that is going to be judged. people are not going to read all the info on how it was made and who made what. They are going to vote on what appeals to their eye. Many people and I am included have no idea how a cane is made or want to know. I do know there is tremendous amount of work involved but so too is there for casting or doing segmented work. Many of the contests are broad minded and encompass different techniques to get to that final product. There is many of these techniques that are unseen to the naked eye and unless you have an understanding of how they were done you are not going to care. You as I will look at the finished product and I will put no credence into who made what. I believe there are a few new clay people here so do not put Toni as the soul supplier here either.

I have seen this in past contests, to me the winner of a certain contest and I am not putting out any examples, but the winners pen is no way more involved than one that did not win when I know for fact it took more work for the person that lost to make their pen than the one that won. But eye candy wins out.

If you start breaking this contest down then you need to step back and do the same with others and spell out all the rules. Lets enjoy it for what it is. a look at a medium that is different in many ways and makes for some beautiful works of art. :):)Just an opinion which happens to be mine.
 

Brian G

Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
1,567
Location
Bloomington, MN
My opinion is that the entrant should make their own cane.

Exceptions take a contest down an unending hole. I think that once we start adding exceptions, the contest becomes more complicated and participation suffers.

A contest should be a challenge to win, but winning shouldn't be the goal. I think people that know they could easily win a contest politely decline to enter. That leaves room for people that want to push their limits to give it a shot.

I learned that I stink at trying to make polyclay canes. I've also learned that I don't HAVE to make a cane to make a polyclay pen.

I still stink at making polyclay pens. :biggrin:
 

mredburn

IAP Activities Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
8,752
Location
Fort Myers FL
Making changes to rule 3 and 7

3. The blanks and the pen made from the blank for this contest are to be made solely by the person entering the contest (with the exception that you may used purchased canes, but you must state in the description if you purchased the canes and where you purchased them from).


7. Included with the pictures of your pen, you need to also submit a description of your blank that shows what kind of work went into the making of the blank, If you purchased the canes and if so where did you purchase them, without saying something that will give away who you are. Please remember to not put your name or your business name on the photos. Keep this limited to 200 words or less.
 

mredburn

IAP Activities Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
8,752
Location
Fort Myers FL
Curt is in charge of this contest. The threads are posted in the activities Manager forum so I can make those changes when needed. The individual chairmen cannot make changes themselves as they do not have moderator privileges.
 
Last edited:

mredburn

IAP Activities Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
8,752
Location
Fort Myers FL
It might help to understand the current rules from our point of view. This is the first year that clay has had its own contest. We have no feedback when we decide to make a contest on how many will enter under any circumstances. So we make the rules as broad as possible with letting a person buy a finished cane like Toni Makes and sticking it on a kit and submitting it.
Maybe there are enough members making their own canes and then blanks and pens that there wont be any bought cane pens submitted.
 
Last edited:

CREID

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
3,009
Location
Vancouver, wa
I asked Mike to make the changes. I will echo what he said up above. The changes are so that the people voting will know if they purchased canes or not and take that into consideration when voting. I know it isn't perfect but it's the best I can do for now. If we can get enough participation in this contest then in future contests in polyclay we can modify. Trust me, all comments are heard and if I chair this contest in the future then we will adjust and make changes. I hope to see a lot of entries and some great looking pens.
 

edstreet

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
3,684
Location
No longer confused....
My questions was solely directed at keeping the contest in the neutral arena and not cause problems that I have personally witnessed in the past.

Being one of the "cane makers" (Yes both of us are canes makers) for the past several years I can say there is a very large divide between the two realms and my hope and goal was to bridge that gap and in doing so 3 of us opened a facebook group dedicated to this very issue.

I can also say it's flattering and good when someone buys a cane (i.e.one that I or someone I know made). It's also good when people ask about polymer clay, yes it is a good medium and it's an area that has great potential and even greatly unexplored areas and I am glad to see the contest open on this.

I can also say that since I make canes and I do know a good number of other cane makers, both male and female, that I can recognize their work when I see it. Some are vastly more skilled at this than I am. Would I like to see two new people to polymer clay submit works where person A bought canes and person B made their own canes but subpar to the pro's who sell their works and the public at large vote in favor of person A for the pro's work? No, I think this would give person A an gross unfair advantage and view that as cheating. Same holds true for the person who bought the damascus steel blank from a smith and sanded it to shape and put it on a pen, won the contest yet it was the smiths work who did the winning, not the assembly. So no it's not only in one contest that an unfair advantage that can take place, it's multiples.

If indeed the goal is to bring in more submission entries then the playing field does need to be even for everyone and with firm dedication shown to everyone at all stages of skill level that the contest is equal, just and fair for all.

So no, I am not trying to be argumentative or the like in what I have said.
 

Bob Wemm

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
1,994
Location
Kalbarri, Western Australia
My questions was solely directed at keeping the contest in the neutral arena and not cause problems that I have personally witnessed in the past.

Being one of the "cane makers" (Yes both of us are canes makers) for the past several years I can say there is a very large divide between the two realms and my hope and goal was to bridge that gap and in doing so 3 of us opened a facebook group dedicated to this very issue.

I can also say it's flattering and good when someone buys a cane (i.e.one that I or someone I know made). It's also good when people ask about polymer clay, yes it is a good medium and it's an area that has great potential and even greatly unexplored areas and I am glad to see the contest open on this.

I can also say that since I make canes and I do know a good number of other cane makers, both male and female, that I can recognize their work when I see it. Some are vastly more skilled at this than I am. Would I like to see two new people to polymer clay submit works where person A bought canes and person B made their own canes but subpar to the pro's who sell their works and the public at large vote in favor of person A for the pro's work? No, I think this would give person A an gross unfair advantage and view that as cheating. Same holds true for the person who bought the damascus steel blank from a smith and sanded it to shape and put it on a pen, won the contest yet it was the smiths work who did the winning, not the assembly. So no it's not only in one contest that an unfair advantage that can take place, it's multiples.

If indeed the goal is to bring in more submission entries then the playing field does need to be even for everyone and with firm dedication shown to everyone at all stages of skill level that the contest is equal, just and fair for all.

So no, I am not trying to be argumentative or the like in what I have said.

This is exactly what I have been trying to say.

I also am not interested in arguing politics, all I want is a fair playing field.

I have never meant any malice against Toni, who is a Master with her cane construction, as well as the other Masters out there who create the most wonderful Canes.

I will be submitting an entry this year but it will not be a cane based construction.

Like Skiprat said, be careful what you wish for. It seems that this has gotten a bit out of hand, and I respectfully step out of the discussion.

Bob
 

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,083
Location
NJ, USA.
Bob that is a great point you just made about other clay pens being made and not cane based. (at least not like many think of) I think that point needs to be mentioned also. There have been many examples over the years of just this. Good luck to all. Should be interesting. Love it when the field is wide open.
 

mredburn

IAP Activities Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
8,752
Location
Fort Myers FL
This discussion is exactly what is supposed to happen when we post these rules for review.
I see debate not arguing. Everyone is presenting their opinions reasonably and without malice. IF your going to submit an entry or are seriously planning on it subject to time restraints and success in the effort please vote in the poll.
 

Dale Lynch

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2011
Messages
1,819
Location
Hastings,NE
This discussion reminds me of a contest I was going to enter a few years back.In that contest lasers were not allowed.I discussed it with the contest chairman because I wanted to build one of the 64 piece herringbone blanks from laserlines.Anyone who has made one could probably tell you how difficult it is to actually all those little pieces together and have it look good.We agreed that even though the blanks had to be asembled from a bunch of tiny individual pieces, the fact that those pieces were cut with a laser by somebody else meant it could not be allowed.

How does that relate to this contest?Even though the blanks will still have to made with precision to look good,it still uses others equipment and experience of others to complete.We allow the use of pen kits because that is something 99% of us cannot make.How many of us have industrial lathes and plating facilities.

I believe the spirit of these contests is to show our own individual skill and ability.Wether it be an original design or recreating a design that personally appeals to us.We should strive to create with our own hands to grow as pen turners.
 
Top Bottom