Photographer frustration

[wrjones224]

I am needing some advice and frankly just going to rant on my frustration. I am not good at taking photos of my pens so I typically have my wife take them and she does a great job with what we have. We don't have the equipment to take a photo like these first two attached. Having recently moved I found a new photographer in the area and wanted similar pictures taken for a different pen project.

This is what I received as the final pictures. Now I understand taking pictures of pens is difficult but I asked up front if she had the equipment necessary to take pictures like the original and she said yes.

I told her I was disappointed and if she could redo them. She then delivered these and said this is the best she could do. One of them has the Live Photo feature as it's been taken with an iPhone.

Should I be required to pay for these photos? We had agreed on price beforehand and I even gave her one of the pens. If I wanted photos this blurry and unprofessional compared to the first ones I would have done it with my on iPhone. The most frustrating part is I asked beforehand to make sure she had the equipment to do so.

 

[jttheclockman]

The first 2 are truely professional. I wish I could take photos like that. I do not have the equipment. The ones she took I would not pay for and just let her keep the pen you gave her as payment. One of those word of mouth deals and they always come back to beat you I suppose.

 

[MRDucks2]

Those are note of professional quality.

 

[Joebobber]

Im in the same boat. I shake so bad my wife takes all our pictures. She used to be terrible, off center or cutting parts out. But she's getting better. All she uses is her cell. We did buy 1 of those cheap photo booth things but she didn't like it.

 

[moke]

There is a Professional Photographer on every block. Anyone can call themselves a professional and do. The bulk of people calling themselves professionals are educated by youtube and pinterest. As I have said on this site, I was a commercial and portrait photographer for 43 years. I have a degree.

On the other hand, a bonifed commercial photographer usually get 300 to 500 dollars an hour. While that sounds like they are getting rich, I assure you they are not. Most charge for the session time, and that includes the conversion time. Conversion time is usually twice the time it take to photograph. Balance that to an amateur ( who claims to be a professional), the bill is a lot more. If you do not want to pay commercial rates, I would suggest that you look around. What you are looking for is a person capapable of small product photographs. When you are looking, ask to see their portfolio of Product Photography, small products specifically. I would not look at photos of children, animals or landscapes......that is a different skill set, and equipment set. There should be people out there that are capable of doing this adequately. Try some portrait photograpghers that are degreed.....they may have a portrait studio and not specialize in it, but have the skills enough to do it from their education. Covid put a damper on a number of studios....they may be willing to deal a little. While there are some good photographers that work from home, there are far more that will deliver what you just got. Try a full time studio first, then the part timers. After you find someone that delivers what you want for a price you are willing to pay, stick with them.

The photos you recieved were not satisfactory and just the mere fact that she did not see that, is testimony to her skill. The very color rendition and lack of depth of field shows that she is outside her area of expertise. I never liked to bash someone in my own field, but I think it is apparent.

 

[montmill]

I have to agree with Mike. We too had a studio and did wedding, seniors and family portraits. The hardest job I had was to photograph a companies annual report. Commercial photography is hard work. Of course studio photography went out the window with digital. Everyone's Aunt Mary is a photographer. Judge them by their work. That isn't good work.

 

[EricRN]

I agree. Not up to snuff. Have you checked the exif data to see what camera she used. With the right knowledge and lighting, an iPhone isn't bad. I'd actually spend more on the lighting and backdrop setup than I would on the camera for this sort of photo.

 

[Jontello]

Does not meet up to Professional quality unfortunately. The other pictures they sent to you were not even taken through a photo editing software. It does not seem to me that they wanted to do any extra work. The color temperature is off and by doing some simple adjustments a lot better picture could of been given to you. Here is an example of what i was about to do in 5 minutes with some photo software.

I would definitely not pay anything for this.

Jon

 

[wrjones224]

Thanks all for the input. I am glad I was not crazy to think these photos weren't good. Good learning experience to know from now on I will need to see some previous work before agreeing to a photographer.

 

[sorcerertd]

I'd not be happy as I have gotten better pictures with my phone. I'm still trying to up my photography game, but it does seem harder than making the pens sometimes. Maybe you could look up a local photography club and have a couple members would do sample pen shoots for you?

 

[Gary Beasley]

Shooting small objects set at an angle is an exercise in frustration for an amateur unless they have learned to use some of the focus stacking programs and took the time to learn how to get good results.

 

[Sylvanite]

Shooting small objects set at an angle is an exercise in frustration for an amateur unless they have learned to use some of the focus stacking programs and took the time to learn how to get good results.

See Pen Photography Myth #5: You need to use focus stacking.

Getting back to the original topic - The real difference between an amateur and a professional is that an amateur does for love what a professional does for money. Claiming to be a professional, however, implies a certain level of skill. I agree with the others that the commissioned photos do not exhibit that skill.

Regards,
Eric

 

[Gary Beasley]

My studio type cameras with front tilt can easily get an angled shot. You can only go so far with stopping the lens down before diffraction starts eating into the sharpness. After that you have to change the composition to suit the cameras capabilities. We should change that definition to the difference between a snapshooter and a photographer.

 

[jrista]

I am needing some advice and frankly just going to rant on my frustration. I am not good at taking photos of my pens so I typically have my wife take them and she does a great job with what we have. We don't have the equipment to take a photo like these first two attached. Having recently moved I found a new photographer in the area and wanted similar pictures taken for a different pen project.

View attachment 328158
View attachment 328159
This is what I received as the final pictures. Now I understand taking pictures of pens is difficult but I asked up front if she had the equipment necessary to take pictures like the original and she said yes.
View attachment 328160
View attachment 328161
I told her I was disappointed and if she could redo them. She then delivered these and said this is the best she could do. One of them has the Live Photo feature as it's been taken with an iPhone.

View attachment 328162

View attachment 328163

Should I be required to pay for these photos? We had agreed on price beforehand and I even gave her one of the pens. If I wanted photos this blurry and unprofessional compared to the first ones I would have done it with my on iPhone. The most frustrating part is I asked beforehand to make sure she had the equipment to do so.

There is more to it than just equipment....you also have to know how to use that equipment properly. I would also say you have to have a passion for the trade as well.

The last couple photos demonstrate none of these traits...neither that she has proper equipment, nor the skill nor passion.

Getting decent photos is really not that hard. I would purchase a small light tend, or even just craft one (some thin white almost net-like white fabric, and something to suspend it over your pen setup will do). This might cost you $20-$30 for one off of Amazon, or $5-10 to buy some materials to try and craft your own. Then you need light. Daytime light will do in a pinch, but you can also pick up a couple of photography lights for not too much.

Once you have those basics, you just need to play around with it all to figure out how to illuminate the pen in a way that produces good shots. Takes a bit of practice, but its not rocket science.

 

[Woodchipper]

The last photo has the shadow indicating a light source from one direction. I take photos of trout flies with this setup: two clamp on lights from Harbor Freight, curly Q bulbs, wife made two cloth filters for the lights. I have three backgrounds: dark brown, grey and tan. The lights clamp on the cabinet frame or doors and moved for the best lighting. Photo attached.

 

[Painfullyslow]

I am FAR from a professional when it comes to photography (or just about anything, really). Since this is a hobby to me I am certainly not willing to pay a professional photographer.

While these aren't amazing pictures, you can produce 'good enough' results with a small investment in learning and equipment.

Simple, but good enough if you are going to put it up for sale somewhere, and I didn't bother with things like making sure the empty space on the edges was consistent.

This was done with my Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra cellphone (the ultra does come with an upgraded camera) and a $40 light box from amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08PDP3YSP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details).

Take the time to learn about the camera settings, regardless of what you are using. Even most cellphones have a 'pro' setting now where you can make a lot of adjustments. A little time invested here will pay big dividends in your final product. YouTube has a lot of great info.

Secondly, a little bit of post-processing goes a long way. I have photoshop but honestly do not bother with it for pictures like this. I just use the Photos application that comes with Windows and I do the following:

Crop to size desired
Increase clarity slightly
Adjust color saturation to preference
Adjust lighting to preference

It may sound like a lot but the entire process takes me less than 30 seconds per picture, and if I actually spent a few more I could make it even better.

Oh, and for those who do not have steady hands: I have significant nerve damage in both hands so I get random spasms which obviously makes photography difficult. Digital photography (and apologies to the actual photographers here) is the great equalizer for us amateurs. Take 10 pictures...or 10,000. ONE of them is bound to come out good, just by law of averages. It costs you nothing but time to do this. Again, invest some time in learning about what makes a good photo a good photo. Once you know what to look for in a photo and how to frame your shot, you will be able to cut down the number of pictures you take until eventually you only need one...and I still take several each time and pick from the best.

Finally, if you still can't seem to take a steady picture, there are many cell phone holders (or tripods for actual cameras) which can make the process easier.



In the end I think many are intimidated by learning some software but it really isn't that difficult. After all, we all spend countless hours making pens. Isn't it worth one or two of those to ensure that your amazing work actually looks amazing in photos?

I will see if I can put together a tutorial on how to use the photos app.

 

[NJturner]

I spent a decade or two as a 'professional' photographer - started doing live event pictures (concerts) and ended doing hundreds of weddings both for a commercial studio and independent owner. I was pretty good at both. However when I accepted an assignment to do some art photography for someone, I realized that like other trades, specialty counts. I was somewhat embarrassed that despite my years behind a camera shooting other things, my skills at art photography were pretty awful. Today, supposed 'professional photographers' seem to feel that the term is broad and covers everything they do. I wonder if they also think the same way about doctors? My advise is to ask more questions before hiring anyone to find out what they consider is their specialty, as the general title 'photographer' is misleading.

 

[farmer]

Photographing pens is a specialized section of photography.
Books have been written about photographing all kinds of products and pen photography has it's special challenges.
You should ask yourself what are the challenges you have when photographing a pen .
Make a list then figure out how to solve those problems


It all begins with light and its angle of reflection off smoothed surfaced subjects.
It takes light to see everything from figures/shapes to shadows to colors and glare or reflection.
Understanding which kind of lighting does what is also super important .
Basics would be hard to soft lighting to continuous or flash.


Product or commercial photography on subjects this size is expected to have a white back ground.

You want the photograph of your pen to stand out ,,, to pop .
Normally that doesn't happen using low and soft lighting or getting blinded by the lights reflection off the smooth non metallic surface .

The pen is round, and smooth .. no matter what you will have line of reflection from the light source on the pens wood or plastic parts
The brightness of the lights reflection off the smooth non metallic parts of the pen is 1 to 1 .
Less light , less reflection , one light, one line of reflection , two lights , two lines of reflection .
Reflection ( glare ) is only caused by electromagnetic polarized light
4 things create polarized light
Light becomes polarized when it's reflected, refracted( passing through ) glass water or plastics or glass.
Emitted , CFL emits polarized light waves , Led , tungsten doesn't .
Scattered as in like clouds or using a camera flash with a soft box on the flash unit .

 

[Painfullyslow]

oh, since this thread was revived I realized that I never put a link to the quick and dirty tutorial that I made.

Making your pictures look better

There seems to be a need for a basic tutorial on how to improve photography of our pens but once the photo is taken, what can be done to improve it? That is where post-processing work comes in or in laymans terms: using software to improve picture quality. This is a very basic overview of what...

www.penturners.org

 

[Woodchipper]

Watching this as a "review" and have found that a tripod is mandatory for macro photography. One can get a tripod for a camera or a cell phone. I believe an adapter for a cell phone will fit to a tripod. If it's not overstepping the bounds here, B & H has all kinds of photography items, https://www.bhphotovideo.com/.

 

[WriteON]

If you have an iPhone and iwatch….. the watch is a remote control. Set up the phone/camera .. tripod or whatever. The iwatch is the switch. Phone never moves.

 

[WriteON]

Watching this as a "review" and have found that a tripod is mandatory for macro photography. One can get a tripod for a camera or a cell phone. I believe an adapter for a cell phone will fit to a tripod. If it's not overstepping the bounds here, B & H has all kinds of photography items, https://www.bhphotovideo.com/.

I have 2 table top tri-pods. One's a cheapie that will accommodate.. the other cost a bit and more precise but not necessarily better. Will gladly post if anyone wants to see them. Also have a Manfrotto tripod with an Iphone holder.

 

[glw20109]

I am an avid photographer (not professional) and enjoy pen making, wood turning, and leather work. I did a little googling and found this old IAP Tutorial from 2008, some of the links are bad, but it provides some good instruction and tips. Hope it helps.

 

[McKenzie Penworks]

Thanks all for the input. I am glad I was not crazy to think these photos weren't good. Good learning experience to know from now on I will need to see some previous work before agreeing to a photographer.

lol you could come by the shop and we could take better photos with our cell phones and some cool backdrops I have here...

 

[RunnerVince]

The last photo has the shadow indicating a light source from one direction. I take photos of trout flies with this setup: two clamp on lights from Harbor Freight, curly Q bulbs, wife made two cloth filters for the lights. I have three backgrounds: dark brown, grey and tan. The lights clamp on the cabinet frame or doors and moved for the best lighting. Photo attached.

@Woodchipper Thank you for posting the photo of your setup. I've been struggling the last few years trying to find a lighting setup. I bought a light box that came with four halfway decent LED lights, but have never been able to figure out where to put them. I'll have to find a way to suspend them, and only use two, like in your setup. Even if it doesn't work for me, at least I have a direction to go.
Even YouTube/Pinterest searches haven't really helped as far as determining where to put the lights.

 

[jttheclockman]

@Woodchipper Thank you for posting the photo of your setup. I've been struggling the last few years trying to find a lighting setup. I bought a light box that came with four halfway decent LED lights, but have never been able to figure out where to put them. I'll have to find a way to suspend them, and only use two, like in your setup. Even if it doesn't work for me, at least I have a direction to go.
Even YouTube/Pinterest searches haven't really helped as far as determining where to put the lights.

There are many videos on utube showing how people and even pros handle photo taking with and without light boxes.

 

[glw20109]

So just to add my 2 cents. This is my set up (please ignore the clutter) A home made light box, two studio strobes and an LED flood light. I use a Nikon D3300 on a tripod with a remote trigger, to reduce any movement from pushing the shutter button. The studio strobes were not that expensive, my daughter uses them for portrait photos. The light box is made from $1 foam boards. You can make it any size, I cut out the sides and top and used tracing paper to diffuse the light. You can make it permanent or folding so you can store it. I try to compose as much of the image on camera before I take the shot, composition, white balance, and exposure. I'm quickly learning that a can of compressed air or an air compressor is essential to minimize dust. I post process my images with open source software, Darktable and GIMP 2. I surf Etsy stores and pen companies to see the type of images they use. I find most of my backgrounds at the craft store scrap booking section. Attached are some examples of my recent pens and photos.

 

[MDVolle]

I am needing some advice and frankly just going to rant on my frustration. I am not good at taking photos of my pens so I typically have my wife take them and she does a great job with what we have. We don't have the equipment to take a photo like these first two attached. Having recently moved I found a new photographer in the area and wanted similar pictures taken for a different pen project.

I'm new to both pen turning and the forum but your post raises a lot of issues - I'm not new to photography -

When soliciting photography, nearly all photographers should have sample images and if they can't provide samples that represent the technical skills, be very cautious -

"Table Top', Macro and product photography aren't magic but they can require some specific skills - that in all honesty, almost anyone can learn - I'll go out on a limb and say that if you can learn pen turning, you can probably also learn to photograph your pens if you want to.

I'm not one of those who will try to "hide the industry secrets" there are just techniques and skills (and equipment) to enable making high quality artistic shots.

There are even inexpensive and DIY tools that can be made up to achieve nearly all the same results - not unlike pen turning.

For close shots, a tripod is really essential - even if its a cheap tabletop tripod that holds your phone - not just for focus but so you can also make controlled adjustments to your composition and lighting - hand held is possible but it really complicates the process and forces you to review all of the variables simultaneously - which isn't good for learning.

Attached are a few sample images - two happen to be pens (just not turned pens) and the third is a macro image -

Pens are not technically "small" - table sugar is a lot smaller - but even that isn't "tiny" - its just techniques for each task - that can be learned - by you or a photographer - so get the images you want -

Pen on cedar plank

Pen on glass

Table sugar on glass

 

[MDVolle]

I agree. Not up to snuff. Have you checked the exif data to see what camera she used. With the right knowledge and lighting, an iPhone isn't bad. I'd actually spend more on the lighting and backdrop setup than I would on the camera for this sort of photo

With lighting, an iPhone can do a LOT - but even with that, you have to have a little understanding and some lighting (even if its natural light)

 

[WriteON]

Using an iPhone w/shaky hands? I use a cheap table top tripod. My iWatch and iPhone work together. The IWatch is the remote for the phone camera