Pens Plus questions.

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sorcerertd

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I have had good results with Pens Plus overall, but often find that parts of the barrel dull after sitting for a minute or two. I'm pretty sure this has to do with the density of the wood, and we know that can vary a little even in the same blank. I'm just going to say this is a problem with friction polishes in general because I've had the same results with Aussie Oil.

Of those that use friction polishes...
  • How many coats do you typically use?
  • Have you had times that it just didn't seem to produce the shine you wanted no matter what you did?
  • Does it work better if you pre-treat the wood with walnut oil, or maybe even some other sealant?
Here's an example. This has 4 coats. This is Bolivian Rosewood.
20240115_111150.jpg
 
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cl1237

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I use 3-4 coats of pens plus. I do not pretreat with anything. I've had a few pens that I wasn't very happy with the results, but for the life of me can't remember what wood I used.

I have a pen with Bolivian rosewood finished with pens plus, it has more of a satin finish on it than other pens I've finished with pens plus. Although the finish is even, so I'm pleased with the result
 

Smokey S

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west shore of Copano Bay, South Texas
When using pens plus I use three coats follow up with two coats of carnauba wax. I do not pretreat with anything prior to the pens plus. For the most I have been very satisfied with it. Just saying……..Smokey
 
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When using Pens Plus, I first do the friction process with the Doctor's Woodshop walnut oil to help build a solid base (as the company recommends). I will do 3 coats of Pens Plus and add more as needed pending the finished product.
 

sorcerertd

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When using Pens Plus, I first do the friction process with the Doctor's Woodshop walnut oil to help build a solid base (as the company recommends). I will do 3 coats of Pens Plus and add more as needed pending the finished product.
This sounds like a good plan. I'll have to get some of their walnut oil. All I have is the culinary type (which makes some tasty salad dressings).
 

jrista

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I have had good results with Pens Plus overall, but often find that parts of the barrel dull after sitting for a minute or two. I'm pretty sure this has to do with the density of the wood, and we know that can vary a little even in the same blank. I'm just going to say this is a problem with friction polishes in general because I've had the same results with Aussie Oil.

Of those that use friction polishes...
  • How many coats do you typically use?
  • Have you had times that it just didn't seem to produce the shine you wanted no matter what you did?
  • Does it work better if you pre-treat the wood with walnut oil, or maybe even some other sealant?
How old is your bottle? I've learned, twice now, that this stuff, since it contains shellac, WILL go bad, and when it does, this issue becomes more prevalent until its unavoidable and unfixable. This was kind of what drove me to GluBoost, which for me was a pretty darn big deal, as I really like Pens Plus in a general sense, and am very allergic to CA. But, after losing, well, probably around a whole bottle's worth of the Pens Plus due to the shellac going bad (apparently, the pure filtered walnut oil won't go rancid because it is devoid of proteins, and the Cosmolloid 80H wax is a synthetic material, so it can't be either of those two things), I have decided to stick with GluBoost for now.

When a bottle of Pens Plus is new, it goes on really smooth, crystal clear, and dries well (so long as you don't touch it until its cured, which can actually take a while, more than just the initial drying time on the lathe). Once it starts to go bad though, its a slow onset process in my experience, and the finish just starts behaving worse and worse, exhibiting more of this dulling issue, until every coat goes dull. When that happens, I think its sufficient to say that whatever finish remains in the bottle at that point is bad.

Interestingly, I had similar issues with home made O.B. Shine Juice, which is a shellac based friction polish (1/1/1 ratio of BLO, DNA and Zinsser's Bulls Eye Shellac). This stuff didn't seem to last anywhere as long as Pens Plus, and I often had the problem of it simply not being "shiny" as the name implies. It would go on shiny, then within minutes dull out. I used to think I was doing something wrong, until I realized that the bottles I was making were expiring in about 3 months or thereabouts, and after that the shellac was just bad. Even making a new bottle of the stuff, if I tried the new bottle on a piece I'd already coated a few times with the bad bottle, I could never get it to shine properly.

So, that's one potential issue...shellac gone bad. I think shellac-gone-bad is the key issue with friction polishes in general...and, unless you take GREAT care to preserve your friction polishes and limit the aging and degradation of the shellac in it, sometimes a bottle can go bad in mere months. I think Pens Plus, being a bit more than just a friction polish since it contains the Cosmolloid 80H synthetic wax, has a bit of an edge here, as I've had bottles of this stuff last for over a year before I know for sure they are bad. I think the wax might help preserve the shellac. Most other friction polishes definitely do not last that long, sometimes they last only a few months. This is a shellac problem, as it is a naturally produced substance and will degrade and decay. I've tried to learn exactly why it degrades, but I haven't found any specific scientific explanation. I have found that the more blond/clear shellacs, due to filtration and processing, tend to have a much shorter shelf life than the deep amber garnet stuff, which is usually not used in friction polishes as it would impart a strong color change. Most friction polishes are made with a blond or super blond shellac, so that's part of it.

The other main cause of dulling that I've encountered with Pens Plus, is that it just keeps getting soaked into the wood. If there are more porous parts of the wood, or just parts of the wood that are more able to draw in the finish, then they will often dull.

My solution to this was to buy a bottle of Drs Woodshop Pure Walnut Oil, and finish the blank with that FIRST. In fact, what I would usually do, is for the last few grits (I would usually sand up to 3000 grit, so often from 1200 or 1500 through 3000) I would wet sand with the walnut oil. This would ensure that the wood gets well penetrated with the oil. I would then also friction-polish the oil with a piece of paper towel after cleaning up the blank after the final sanding pass, to jumpstart that polymerization process. Then I would finish with Pens Plus. Once the wood was saturated, the changes of the Pens Plus coats dulling out dropped significantly, unless the shellac in the finish was going bad.

Final thought... I used to apply lots of coats of Pens Plus when I first started. The majority of the recommendations out there were to keep coating with high friction pressure until you had a shiny surface. Thing is, I never quite achieved that pure glass super shiny result by doing that. My success with Pens Plus only came when I started pre-finishing with just the oil, then using only a few coats, 2-3 tops. I have found that pens plus is not the kind of finish you want to "build up", and that so long as the shellac has not gone bad, that sometimes even just one coat will give you a super shiny, highly reflective glass-like coating that rivals a good CA finish.
 
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sorcerertd

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The other main cause of dulling that I've encountered with Pens Plus, is that it just keeps getting soaked into the wood. If there are more porous parts of the wood, or just parts of the wood that are more able to draw in the finish, then they will often dull.
I'm pretty convinced this is the issue. Looking at the blank again, I think it's East Indian Rosewood instead of Bolivian. That is less dense and less oily (to me anyway) and will definitely absorb a little finish.
 
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How old is your bottle? I've learned, twice now, that this stuff, since it contains shellac, WILL go bad, and when it does, this issue becomes more prevalent until its unavoidable and unfixable. This was kind of what drove me to GluBoost, which for me was a pretty darn big deal, as I really like Pens Plus in a general sense, and am very allergic to CA. But, after losing, well, probably around a whole bottle's worth of the Pens Plus due to the shellac going bad (apparently, the pure filtered walnut oil won't go rancid because it is devoid of proteins, and the Cosmolloid 80H wax is a synthetic material, so it can't be either of those two things), I have decided to stick with GluBoost for now.

When a bottle of Pens Plus is new, it goes on really smooth, crystal clear, and dries well (so long as you don't touch it until its cured, which can actually take a while, more than just the initial drying time on the lathe). Once it starts to go bad though, its a slow onset process in my experience, and the finish just starts behaving worse and worse, exhibiting more of this dulling issue, until every coat goes dull. When that happens, I think its sufficient to say that whatever finish remains in the bottle at that point is bad.

Interestingly, I had similar issues with home made O.B. Shine Juice, which is a shellac based friction polish (1/1/1 ratio of BLO, DNA and Zinsser's Bulls Eye Shellac). This stuff didn't seem to last anywhere as long as Pens Plus, and I often had the problem of it simply not being "shiny" as the name implies. It would go on shiny, then within minutes dull out. I used to think I was doing something wrong, until I realized that the bottles I was making were expiring in about 3 months or thereabouts, and after that the shellac was just bad. Even making a new bottle of the stuff, if I tried the new bottle on a piece I'd already coated a few times with the bad bottle, I could never get it to shine properly.

So, that's one potential issue...shellac gone bad. I think shellac-gone-bad is the key issue with friction polishes in general...and, unless you take GREAT care to preserve your friction polishes and limit the aging and degradation of the shellac in it, sometimes a bottle can go bad in mere months. I think Pens Plus, being a bit more than just a friction polish since it contains the Cosmolloid 80H synthetic wax, has a bit of an edge here, as I've had bottles of this stuff last for over a year before I know for sure they are bad. I think the wax might help preserve the shellac. Most other friction polishes definitely do not last that long, sometimes they last only a few months. This is a shellac problem, as it is a naturally produced substance and will degrade and decay. I've tried to learn exactly why it degrades, but I haven't found any specific scientific explanation. I have found that the more blond/clear shellacs, due to filtration and processing, tend to have a much shorter shelf life than the deep amber garnet stuff, which is usually not used in friction polishes as it would impart a strong color change. Most friction polishes are made with a blond or super blond shellac, so that's part of it.

The other main cause of dulling that I've encountered with Pens Plus, is that it just keeps getting soaked into the wood. If there are more porous parts of the wood, or just parts of the wood that are more able to draw in the finish, then they will often dull.

My solution to this was to buy a bottle of Drs Woodshop Pure Walnut Oil, and finish the blank with that FIRST. In fact, what I would usually do, is for the last few grits (I would usually sand up to 3000 grit, so often from 1200 or 1500 through 3000) I would wet sand with the walnut oil. This would ensure that the wood gets well penetrated with the oil. I would then also friction-polish the oil with a piece of paper towel after cleaning up the blank after the final sanding pass, to jumpstart that polymerization process. Then I would finish with Pens Plus. Once the wood was saturated, the changes of the Pens Plus coats dulling out dropped significantly, unless the shellac in the finish was going bad.

Final thought... I used to apply lots of coats of Pens Plus when I first started. The majority of the recommendations out there were to keep coating with high friction pressure until you had a shiny surface. Thing is, I never quite achieved that pure glass super shiny result by doing that. My success with Pens Plus only came when I started pre-finishing with just the oil, then using only a few coats, 2-3 tops. I have found that pens plus is not the kind of finish you want to "build up", and that so long as the shellac has not gone bad, that sometimes even just one coat will give you a super shiny, highly reflective glass-like coating that rivals a good CA finish.

I have been using the same bottle without issues for over a year, not sure how long to be exact and have never had an issue with it going bad. I will also wet sand with the Dr Woodshop walnut oil on more porous woods to seal and fill those in preparation of the sealing oil coat before applying Pens Plus. My sanding usually doesn't go above 420-600 grit at the highest unless it is a hybrid blank with resins.
 

jrista

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I have been using the same bottle without issues for over a year, not sure how long to be exact and have never had an issue with it going bad. I will also wet sand with the Dr Woodshop walnut oil on more porous woods to seal and fill those in preparation of the sealing oil coat before applying Pens Plus. My sanding usually doesn't go above 420-600 grit at the highest unless it is a hybrid blank with resins.
Question is, an you get a truly glass-like shine from it still? That is a tell-tale sign for me, that the bottle is going bad. I've had two now, since the summer of 2021. When the finish is good, you can get an exceptionally clear finish that reflects like glass. When the finish starts to go bad, it becomes harder and harder to get that kind of result. You might still be able to get a decent finish, but it wont be that crystal-clear glasslike finish, which is where the Cosmolloid 80H synthetic wax is showing its benefits.

I have also found that, when the finish starts to go bad...or is indeed bad...you might start out with an ok finish, but over time it will degrade, just sitting out in the open air of your home at room temp. I've had pens that I finished at the tail end of the lifespan of a bottle start out looking fine, although not glasslike, and then a month later, they are very hazy, and the finish feels...well, feels different. At that point the pens are assembled and all, so I haven't been able to do anything ot improve it. Those pens are just unsellable, as far as I'm concerned now. 🤷‍♂️ In one case, I ended up disassembling the pens, turning off the bad finish, and re-finishing with a new bottle, for a batch of pens I was sellign to a client.
 

jrista

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FWIW, just to make sure everyone is understanding, when I say crystal-clear glass-like finish, I really do mean exactly that, not something that approximates it:

0Zymg9s.jpg


Pens Plus, if the finish is good, should go on pretty easily, and should produce a finish like on the above pen, without a lot of hassle. You'll need to wet-sand or pre-finish with the pure oil if you think the wood might soak up a lot of finish. You should only need a couple of coats, rathe than a dozen. Another example of a good Pens Plus finish (the glassy gloss is the Cosmolloid 80H forming a protective film over the shellac and oil base):

EV1KgwW.jpg


When you start having a hard time eliminating streaking, or consistent problems with dulling, or issues like that, then the finish is no longer performing at maximum, and its probably starting to go bad or just gone bad already.

It should also be made clear that, Pens Plus, while usually treated like "just another friction polish", is not... It is a step above any other, at the very least, strictly because of the Cosmolloid 80H. I won't use friction polishes on any pens anymore, except Pens Plus, because shellac is degraded by human sweat and other things. The thing that makes Pens Plus unique, and if you aren't using it right, then you aren't getting the benefit it should be providing, is the Cosmolloid 80H synthetic wax. It being a synthetic wax, it has very small, regular sized crystals which is what allows it to produce such a crystal-clear finish (in contrast to natural waxes that usually have much larger and irregular crystals, which is why they can't produce the same kind of crystal-clear wax coat). When the C80H wax does NOT produce a crystal-clear coating, then its blended with the shellac and oil, and its not actually doing what it is supposed to be doing...sealing those away from human skin and all that. The C80H is supposed to provide a finger-print resistant surface film that seals the shellac and oil and provides a significantly more durable and long-lasting finish than normal friction polishes. It will only do this if applied properly, though, so that the wax does in fact form this protective film. If its showing up with streaks, and lots of dulling, etc....then its not working right. It might be that the wood is just soaking up a lot of the finish, in which case pre-finishing and saturating the wood with pure walnut oil first, can help. It might require a few coats to fully seal the wood and eliminate the dull spots. I think its also important to make sure you are using the right amount of friction/heat, and not over-doing it, but also not under-doing it...getting the wax to film over the top requires the right approach, and I guess it took me a while to fully figure that out.
 
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