Pen (rollerball) sale issue

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JUICEDSS

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Long read....sorry.....

I recently sold a pen on Ebay and a refund was requested as soon as the recipient received it.



From customer:

Reason for return: Arrived damaged
Comments: It's a pretty pen, but the refill doesn't fit it, and hanging it on with a spring ain't how it's supposed to be. Sorry, but it needs to be your problem.

I immediately issued a refund and asked him to elaborate as to what is wrong. I sent him the assembly diagram from PSI. This was a Presimo chrome pen.

His response:
First, it is a pen with much to commend it: good weight and balance, and the redwood body is an attractive choice. It is a rollerball pen. The standard rollerball refill is too short or the pen is too long, but it should not be made to fit by inserting a spring hooked on to the bottom of the refill – it makes the pen look like it was made sloppily, not by the kind of pen turner who can create a beautiful barrel, like you did.

I’ve just taken a couple of other rollerballs apart. One is the same length as yours. It has kind of a seat built into the interior of the barrel, into which the refill secures. The other is shorter than yours: with the cap off, from the tip of extended refill, it is only 110 cm, top to bottom. The first is a Museum of Modern Art pen, and retails for about $80; the other is a Bexley, and retails, new, for more than twice that.

I am the farthest thing from an engineer, but it seems like the kit has faults: the metal pieces at the top and bottom of the barrel are too long, ‘though they look good and add a nice weight, and, while I’m at it, the plastic part of the grip is too thin. The diameter needs, somehow, to be wider, to create a more finger- friendly grip. I would talk to the folks who made the kit, and get their advice. Many rollerball kit pens have a very long grip piece, which, I’d guess, solves the problem, but is not attractive to look at and detracts from the body you’ve worked hard at.

I should point out that the pen you sent me does work, and I expect that, if others have accepted it, they simply don’t know or care enough to pay attention to the insides. I have seen other pens made the same way as yours, and I own none like that. I’ve been playing with pens since the introduction of the first ballpoints, over 60 years ago. I have watched many pens being made, and I always take a new one apart as soon as I receive it. Generally, I replace the cheap factory refills with which they come with something more to my liking, but it also gives me a chance to see what I would have to do when the ink runs out.

My intent here is not to criticize, but, rather, to help. I hope I have.

He then followed up:
I just took a look at the parts diagram you sent. A couple of observations about it. First, the body you made may be longer than that shown it it; of course, it contains no measurements. Second, the grip pictured is wider than the one attached to the pen. Third, picturing a spring at the bottom of the pen is just wrong. NO commercial pen manufacturer would ever make a pen like that, and I doubt PennState Industries, for example, would have anything positive to say about it, either. The diagram could cause a pen to be produced, but to produce one RIGHT, that diagram is garbage.

(I did reply and thanked him for the feedback and told him to keep or throw out the pen and a full refund was issued. I also told him it was a Presimo from PSI and the diagram was from their site as well)

MY thoughts
Every rollerball that I have made, seems to have a short tapered spring to keep tension on the refill. Is this not normal ?????

At this point I am not sure what he expected paying $32.50 with free shipping.

While I appreciate honest feedback, if a person has so much experience with pens, they should know they aren't getting Montblanc quality for $32.50.

The pen in question is attached.
 

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jttheclockman

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Lots of curious things in there. First off I never seen that kit or made one so will not comment on that part. But some rollerballs the spring is in the cap or at least your better quality ones are. He maybe use to that. Most rollerballs are capped pens and not twist.

Next is when he says it is damaged, why is it damaged?? Did something happen in travel?? I am sure you tested before sending. If he is replacing refills, not all refills fit all pens and that is why they make so many.

He is critiquing a kit that you have no control over when it comes to the components. You did not design the kit. You did the blank only. He could have just said he was not satisfied and left at that.

I see Ed posted right after to me and I edited this to say I agree with him on your perception of your pen product. I would never tell someone to throw it out. I would return the refund and return is shipping cost but not throw away so much money and give a customer the perception you make inferior pens. You have no idea who he talks to or if potential clients can come from that exchange. Get the pen back and look it over and see if there is a flaw. I know this has been discussed before also but I would never tell anyone where I got the pen or anything about instructions. I would not tell him the name of the kit. Not his business. That is information for you alone. Just an opinion.
 
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ed4copies

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(I did reply and thanked him for the feedback and told him to keep or throw out the pen and a full refund was issued. I also told him it was a Presimo from PSI and the diagram was from their site as well)

This establishes YOUR perception of the value of the pen--zero.


Pay a couple bucks to have him return it, it is a nice looking pen that could sell for twice what you charged.

As for his complaints, EVERY rollerball I have ever made has had the spring in the top--honestly, I don't think I have ever purchased a commercially made rollerball, but I would be real interested in hearing from those who have to see how the "big boys" design their pens to allow the nib to "float".
 

JUICEDSS

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I think the damaged part was just the only thing you can choose when returning the item he does say that there was nothing wrong with the pen as far as working. His issue was with the construction.

As far as the value the pen, it came down to the math. I just didn’t feel it was worth having it shipped back. I wouldn’t sell it to someone else anyway. Once it leaves my hands it is used.
 

Woodchipper

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Damaged? Where? How? What? Wouldn't that be the responsibility of the carrier? I would have asked for a photo of the damage first. I find it hard to believe that anyone here would ship a damaged pen to a customer.
 

mredburn

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Anytime I have to refund on a sale I pay to have it shipped back. There are way to many people out there that will file a complaint or find issue hoping for a free item or a partial refund amd they will keep the item. In this case, he may just have concerns over his idea over how a pen is to made. However your out the money and he has a free pen.
 

JUICEDSS

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Damaged? Where? How? What? Wouldn't that be the responsibility of the carrier? I would have asked for a photo of the damage first. I find it hard to believe that anyone here would ship a damaged pen to a customer.
Just to clarify, the choice of "damaged" is just what he chose in the return. Upon further conversation, he said it was not damaged, he just didn't agree with the way it is constructed. Never did he criticize my work but his criticism was of how the pen is constructed and how the manufacturer designed it.

I do find it interesting that he said PSI wouldn't do it this way when in fact it is a PSI pen.
 

JUICEDSS

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Location
Grand Island, NY
Anytime I have to refund on a sale I pay to have it shipped back. There are way to many people out there that will file a complaint or find issue hoping for a free item or a partial refund amd they will keep the item. In this case, he may just have concerns over his idea over how a pen is to made. However your out the money and he has a free pen.
The math:

Sale $32.50
Presimo price 8.95
Blank 5.00
Supplies 1.00
Ship 7.00

Net profit $10.55
Ship cost back 7.00

Result: $3.55 and a used pen that I would not sell to anyone. Just not worth getting it back to me.
 
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Woodchipper

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OK, so he didn't agree with the construction of the pen kit? That is out of your jurisdiction. Maybe he could get a job as a pen designer? BTW, I wouldn't sell him another pen at any price.
 

mecompco

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Out of closing in on 200 pens sold on Etsy, I've had exactly one person do about the same thing (though not is so much detail) with a nice Sierra Click. Honestly, good FB is more important to me than a pen so I gave her a refund and told her to keep it. Entirely maddening? Yes, but I know it's simply a cost of doing business. I've got to think eBay would be much worse and is one reason I've not considered selling my pens there (though I do have 2900 positive FBs, so I'm not an eBay noob).
 

PenPal

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Many years called as an expert witness by the photographer commissioned by an ethnic group,the pics IMHO were world class.

Result I was treated as a second class citizen and the determination of the court was that subjective decisions rest with the client, as a result the client kept and used the pics for publication free and demanded the negs.

An expert in the opinion of the court is entitled to their opinion but the proof of acceptance ruled.

These days I never accept court proceedings without a shudder.So what I am saying is that in your case return to you of the pen before refund was a way to go. To this client who turns out to be a bush lawyer satisfaction will never count in his world.

Thanks for sharing,tough decisions hurt.

Peter.
 
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Great responses by all the posters here and I agree with them all. I think this guy complains about everything in his life looking for a freebie. You just made his day by giving him the pen. I would have paid to have it shipped back and enjoyed it myself. It's a very nice looking pen that I would be proud to carry. Don't sell your work short, it's a very beautiful pen...be proud of it.
 

Herb G

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Sometimes, you DO have to fire a customer. It's a royal PITA when you have to deal with Paypal on top of it. Read on, my friends...

I used to sell a few things online here & there. I had one customer who tried to scam anyone they could by saying something was wrong & then contacting Paypal for a refund. Paypal blindly handed out my money without even contacting me. This was not a cheap item by any means.
I escalated it & asked how many refunds the customer had requested in their payment history. When PP actually looked into it, they discovered that every single transaction had a refund request beside it.

There was nothing wrong with what I sold the customer, they were just scammers plain & simple. I contacted the sellers they had bought from & every one of them told me the same story. That customer would buy something, get it, then say something was wrong with it so they could get it for free.

Well, after 4 long months of me proving they were scammers, Paypal finally saw it my way & gave me my money back. I don't know what they did to that person, but PP did tell me they had been buying stuff for the whole 4 months & immediately requesting refunds. Paypal took the money for all those transactions from the account & then closed their Paypal account.
 

bsshog40

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Midland, Tx
This is one good reason why I would never sell my pens on ebay. If this guy knew soo much about pens, why wasn't he making and selling them? Or maybe as stated, he probably does and re-doing to sell for profit. I would block him and not sell to him anymore.
 
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