Pen In The Hat, and other pen and wood swaps

[micah]

I was personally very reluctant to signing up for the wood swap since I didn't recieve a pen in the PINTH. The gentleman wouldn't reply to my inquiries, but was told by the person that sent him a pen that he was in contact with him and was very prompt in returning his emails. I wonder why? O'Well, although it kinda ticked me off, I decided to give it another shot.
As for the star system....I'm not sure if I'd qualify for the swap if you have to have a certain number of stars, but would totally understand and would accept it if I wasn't included due to time or number of posts on my membership. I haven't payed any attention to how many stars I even have, but will now look.[]
Just my 2cnts.
Micah

 

[Radman]

Originally posted by DocStram
<br />
On the other hand, I'm hesitant to participate only becuase I want to avoid disappointing the recipient. I've been turning pens for only about 6 months. I just can't imagine sending one of my pens to Russ or Dario or Patricia or Ron or Richard or Fangar or Gerry or any of the others gods of penturning ... maybe in a couple of years ... or 4 ... or 5. (sorry if your name wasn't included as of the gods. Believe me, I admire and respect all of you and your contribution to the PenMaking World.)

I CAN RELATE! Imagine my horror when I discovered I was to send a pen to Jim Lambert! At the time, I had only a month or two of pen turning under my belt. Jim was most gracious in his reception of my pen and for that I'm most thankful, more than he'll ever realize. Having that experience, I would not hesitate to partake, no matter how much experience one has. Everyone had a starting point.

Regarding the no shows from this past PITH event, I would suggest that those that signed up but failed to particpate not be allowed in the next go around. Maybe that's been suggested, I've not yet gone through the entire thread.
Radman[8D]

 

[mrcook4570]

Could a list be compiled of all those who did not receive a pen? And more importantly, could one be compiled of all those who did not send a pen? This would help to see if the 'deadbeats' are newcomers to the site, regulars, or if they just totally disappeared after receiving their pen. By identifying the problem few (I hope it is a small number anyway), suggestions to improve future exchanges would have more relevance than just trying to guess what the problems are.

That said, my personal experience was fantastic. I received a beautiful pen and my recipient emailed and posted when he received a pen from me. I also very much enjoyed seeing the pictures of the pens that were exchanged.

 

[RussFairfield]

My original message was out of curiosity about "no-shows". Every exchange has had a couple conplaints here on the IAP forum, and I have been aware of others that did't get into the forum. I was curious how many there were and whether they were having any effect on participation in the pen and wood exchanges. And, I was curious if there was any agreement that some Rules might be submitted to Jeff that would make the exchanges a beyyer experience for everyone.

I thank everyone who has offered to correct my less than perfect experience with previous exchanges, but I will decline your kind offers because that was not the reason for the message.

I read the messages as saying that those who are sending pens are not concerned that they might not get anything in return, and that the bad apples have not yet spoiled the barrel. I admire that generous spirit. I accept that doing nothing is an option, and will leave it at that.

However, I can't accept anyone on the receiving end of a pen not having the courtesy to acknowledge that they have received what was sent.

I will say "Thank You" for your responses. And with that, I will shut up on this topic, and leave it to future volunteers to run these exchanges, and thank them for their efforts.

 

[Trapshooter]

(first-sorry for the long post)
I would like to add a little something based on my experience with the PINTH. I am a "newbie" that I like to believe takes advantage of the wealth of information shared on this site and puts it to practice. This has been a slow process for me wich 90% of what I do now is reading and re-reading so I have not put out many pens. I like to see thought put into each pen I make and make it mean someting for the person who recieves it. Half of this echange has fulfilled my expectations, as I have recieved emails from the person who recieved my pen with positive comments. I have looked into that persons photo album before I made my pen and it was intimidating to me, however the feed back I recieved from him means more than he may ever know. I have read his responses on this forum and I know that someone who makes quality pens has MY pen in his collection with other pen turners. Thats a good feeling for a newbie, or anyone I guess. That alone will make me anxious to be part of the next PINTH exchange.
The other half is a little disapointing, as I have no collection, I was looking forward to starting mine with this first pen recieved.
I recieved first communication from my partner asking for my address so I could be sent a pen. This too was a little intimidating to me as I had not started on the pen I was making and I probibly would get my pen before I had sent one. Then I sat back and did nothing. It was only until messeges started showing up that I realized that I am not alone. At that point, I responded in kind. Not knowing if there were legitimate reasons I did not want to offend and used my post office as a reason to suggest for my missing pen, hopeing that the person making my pen is following this thread (thus avoiding embarrasing posts)and shoot me an email that at least it was sent or it was not forgotton.
Then I realized that I needed to be more responsible by bringing the conversation to the person directly. Yesterday, while my echange partner was on line, I sent and email through this website looking for info, I hope he sees it and responds. If there is a reason then no harm no foul in my book. If I recieve no response, I will remember his name and move on. There are far too many quality people on this site to worry about one.
As for suggestions of sending pens to people who have not recieved one, ONLY speaking for myself, I would not expect or accept a pen given to me under these circumstances. I do however look forward to next year when I can exchange something I have worked on for a specific individual and will graciously accept one made for me.

 

[RussFairfield]

Several have suggested that a list of the deadbeats be published after every exchange. Public disclosure is not something to be taken lightly. I see two problems with doing this.

The first is the logistics of doing it. Everyone will have to notify whoever is the leader of the exchange, Scott for the PITH-2006, that someone has failed to honor their commitment. Other than doing that, Scott will have to sort through the messages posted on the forum to determine which complaints are real or immagined. That is asking a lot of a volunteer.

The other problem is the personal judgement required to make such a list. Who is determining whether someone met their commitment or not?? There will always be the obvious ones who have just disappeared; but what about the less than obvious? Do we really want someone's reputation ruined by a public posting just because there is one individual who in their judgement feels they were slighted in the exchange??

I think it is best left to the participants to discuss the "bad risk" people on this forum. Those who are the topic of the discussion will have three options - defend their actions, disappear, or renew their membership under a new name.

 

[Ron Mc]

I have a quick question.
Could all of this be eliminated if the person you give to send one to you as well.
Basically you could pull two names then those two people trade pens.

As far as disclosing names of people that haven't sent pens I believe this is an extremely bad idea! We don't know their circumstances and don't have the right to do that.

This point of the IAP is to assist fellow turners not to make anyone look bad.

 

[Mudder]

Originally posted by Ron Mc
<br />I have a quick question.
Could all of this be eliminated if the person you give to send one to you as well.
Basically you could pull two names then those two people trade pens.

As far as disclosing names of people that haven't sent pens I believe this is an extremely bad idea! We don't know their circumstances and don't have the right to do that.

This point of the IAP is to assist fellow turners not to make anyone look bad.

I ask again; Does this mean that you are volunteering to run the next one?

It was done this way so there would be no hard feelings. For example one person made a Jr Statesman but received a cigar.

And Wayne, Why don't you post the email that you sent to me in the public forum for all to see? I took your post as monday morning quaterbacking and as far as I am concerned if your not willing to run an exchange, you have little to say.

 

[Ron Mc]

Mudder,
I hope that you didn't find my post as a complaint. It wasn't meant that way at all. I'm just trying to help find a way to make sure it doesn't happen again.
I'm sorry if it was taken in a different context as was meant. I believe I have stated that you did a wonderful job and commended your for it. If not then I am telling you this now.
I don't recall you asking me if I was volunteering for the job next time already. Must have mist it. If next year no one that has done this type of thing before wants to do it then I'll be more than happy to take care of it.
Once again, Thank-You for running this.[]

 

[DCBluesman]

If I were as clever as some of the folks on the site, I would insert the "beating a dead horse" emoticon here. [8D]
[editing per psudo request]

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[end edit]

My post from a couple of days ago has been given it's own life and I'm not sure it really needs it. Mudder ran this event better than I ran the one in 2005 and for that I thank him.

Yes, there are a few, stress the word FEW, folks who didn't live up to their end. There were good reasons for some (like Shane), there was good communication from others who still want to fulfill their commitment. All-in-all, by my estimate, 95% or more of us participated and enjoyed the heck out of it. That's a pretty small percentage of the people who failed...at least in my book.

My original note had two intentions. First, to serve as a not-so-gentle reminder to those who hadn't 1) sent their pen and 2) acknowledged the receipt of their pen. Second, to make sure that anyone who hadn't received a pen let me know such that we can be sure to share a keepsake. The response of volunteers to make additional pens is nothing short of phenomenal! It makes me even more proud to be a member here.

So please, let's not overly complicate this for the 5% or less who haven't kept up their part of the bargain. Let's focus on the 95% who have.

<b><b>For those of you who still have not received a pen, please drop me a note.</b></b> <b>The volunteers are eager to send you a special keepsake to remind you of the Pen in the Hat 2006!</b>

(And yes, Mudder, I may well volunteer next year. [])

 

[micah]

One thing that I would like to see if I had the compasity too would be to take some of the noshows and get their IP addresses, compare them and see if maybe this might be one or two "bad seeds" that are registering under differant names getting several pens sent to them. It just seems suspicious since I've heard more than once that the "no shows" only had a few posts.
I know it sounds like some kind of conspiracy theory, but it would still be interesting too see, and the next time we have a swap just compare any new comers with the same IP. Personally, if someone was checking my IP and cross checking it with known "no-shows" I wouldn't have a problem with it since I have nothing to hide.
Just another 2cnts.
Micah

 

[wayneis]

Mudder you seem to have the impression that anyone that offers an opinion or a suggestion is attacking or putting you down for the way that you ran PITH exchange, speaking for myself that is not the case at all. All anyone is trying to do is offer suggestions and opinions as how to do it better next time around. Sense when is that not allowed here? Did I miss a new rule? As long as I have been a member here we have always offered opinions and suggestions on how to do or make our site better, most of the time I don't think that anyone was burned at the stake for doing so. So, get off your high horse and take the these offers and suggestions for what they are meant, no one is blaming you for anything in fact many people here have praised you and the job you did.

Wayne

 

[Thumbs]

Would this problem simply be solved by changing the event timing or rules?

1. Everyone who wants to participate signs up. 2. Those who signed up let the event coordinator know by a certain cut-off date that their pen is ready. 3. Those who have responded to the event coordinator are then matched up by him for the exchange. 4. More likely, real pens are then exchanged not promissory notes.

We don't really know why some of the people who promised pens didn't. Maybe they died. Maybe they got scared. Maybe they were just nasty. We don't know in most cases....... Maybe this method would help minimize the missing exchanges. FWIW!

 

[BigRob777]

Wow, this is a hot topic. I got in on this swap and was happy with what I got and, as a beginner, sent the best pen I had ever done. The person who got my pen is a much more accomplished turner than I am, but he was very kind in his appreciation of the pen. I have done swaps, as I am a member of a mostly now-defunct wood swapping forum. I have had great experiences with it and one long drawn-out one. The first koa I sold here came from my first swap.

The stars are, of course, not a guarantee of integrity, but if a pattern were to emerge, which showed that people were doing the swap, who were new to the forum and didn't reciprocate, then it may be a viable solution (a 2 star minimum). After all, it doesn't take that much to get to 2 stars, as I recall. It does show a committment to this forum, but less than 2 stars doesn't show the opposite. Maybe it will help.

I like Jeff's idea, though it is a lot on him. Thanks Jeff, for offering it. Fortunately, I won't need your service with this swap, but it is good to know that the guy at the top is willing to do this.

<b>IMH</b>,(sometimes)<b>O</b>,
Rob

 

[fhinde]

Originally posted by RussFairfield
<br />Several have suggested that a list of the deadbeats be published after every exchange. Public disclosure is not something to be taken lightly. I see two problems with doing this.

Russ, there is another reason also. I have been absent from this forum for over a year due to health and other commitments. I have only been able to make 3 pens in all this time and hated ever moment that I was in the shop. Hopefully this is about to change but I would have been hard pressed to make and send a pen during that time. Of course I would have made every effort to contact the person I was to swap with and let them know why I was not able to respond. Still with as many people now in the IAP there are bound to be personal problems beyond a persons control.