New Member with a Headache

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Fester

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
28
Location
Waukegan, IL
Hi Everyone,

My name is Terry and I just recently started making pens. I have always liked pens, and when I happened upon a phenomenal deal on a lathe I jumped at the chance to try my hand at pen turning. My "day" job (actually work midnights) as a Corrections Officer in a county jail is not something I really enjoy much anymore, and pen making is a good stress reliever.

Now on to the headache....

I was not prepared for the number of different "methods" to make pens. A guy I work with finishes his pens with steel wool, there's CA, CA/BLO, melted Plexiglass, etc.

I have been learning on my own and have found wading through all the different methods has become a nightmare. Unfortunately I was trying to learn the hard fast rules so I could cut out any excess expense of the trial and error method.

Recently I made a trip to a local store that deals with woodworking, lathes and pens. I asked about collet chucks because I want to drill my pen blanks on my lathe since I can't for the life of me get my drill press to drill straight (maybe operator error or the product of buying a drill press on a budget). I was promptly told that drilling on a lathe would be difficult. I've seen the video on this and it looks pretty much straight forward. I drilled an ice cream scoop handle on a lathe when I took a class, it seemed fairly easy.

The guy at the store told me what I needed was a pen drilling vise and he pointed to 2 models that the store carried, stating "Buy this one, not that one". Then later another store employee asked me a question so I told them the same story, they were o.k. with drilling on a lathe. When I told them the other employee told me to get a pen vise, they again pointed to the pen drilling vises in the store and told me to NOT get the one the other employee recommended, but get the OTHER one.

I had brought along some of my pens and asked about the finish because my Wife seemed to think they could have a better shine on them. They looked them over and said they were perfect and needed nothing done to them. They said the pens had a nice shape and I was doing a great job. THEN the employee that said drilling on the lathe would be difficult starts telling me about a $130.00 pen making 101 class they are having next month. Why would you say I'm doing great and then try to sell me a class?

Anyway, I've got a headache... but still enjoy making pens. My thinking on taking my pens to the store was to get pointers on finishing them. I don't want to take any shortcuts with my pens, I want a top quality finish. On my acrylics I sand to 12,000 micro mesh, then polish with a very mild liquid car polish that is safe for plastics. On the wooden pen (stabilized purple colored box elder) I used a CA finish. That pen is my least favorite, the finish needs to be re-sanded and polished to a brighter shine.

My next project is a "Tycoon" in Amboyna burl, a couple of "Wall Sreet II's", and a Cigar Pen.

It's a learning process, and I'll get it in time. :)

Here are 2 of my acrylic pens that I've made:

LavaBright.jpg


AquaPearl.jpg
 
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ldb2000

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
5,381
Location
Laurence Harbor, NJ, USA.
First let me say , Welcome to the slippery slope to the poorhouse . There's always something to buy to improve your pens . You have to decide where to draw the line . Don't let anyone tell you what you need , just take the information and research it , the net and this site are fantastic places to get information .
Sorry to say there are no hard and fast rules to pen turning . What works for one don't always work for all . CA finishes are a perfect example . There are almost as many ways to do it as there are people telling you that theirs is the right way . There's NO right way , just the way that works for you . Get some cheap wood and cut it into pen blanks and turn them round , then take some of the information you have picked up and experiment on the cheap wood blanks until you find a way that works for you , then tweak it until you get it down to a routine that looks good and is easy for you to do . CA finishes are not the only way to get a good finish but it is one of the fastest ways to get a lasting finish .
Drilling on the lathe is the most accurate way to drill but a drill press with a good quality vise will do an acceptable job , again you will have to decide just how far you want to go as far as buying tools and how far you are planning to advance in making a pen . If you will be happy just making kit pens then the drill press and a "good" vise will serve you well . Scroll chucks and Collet chucks will allow you to do other things as well as drilling but will cost more to equip .
Turning between centers or using a mandrel is another thing you will have to decide for yourself . Mandrels are a good way to hold your blanks for turning but turning between centers avoids allot of the problems you might come up against , like out of round pens .
There is several lifetimes of knowledge in the Library here . Learn to use the search function to get the most out of the Library and the site in general . Ask questions after you've searched abit so you know what questions to ask . The people here are great about sharing their knowledge , all you have to do is ask .
Before I forget , your pens look great , the guys you spoke to got that much right .
 

Fester

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
28
Location
Waukegan, IL
Thanks Butch for your suggestions. I do want to turn more than "kits" eventually, I know I have a way to go. I do have a bunch of pen blanks that to me aren't going to make vary interesting pens (it was a bulk bag o' blanks at a local store) so I'll be practicing on them. I do have a set of Collet chucks coming that I bought from a member here. I can't wait to get the collet chuck, I don't want to risk ruining my expensive blanks with my "discount store special" drill press. Maybe I will try a pen drilling vise some day, but for now I think I'll go the collet chuck route.

I really enjoyed making the acrylic pens and I've looked though the photo gallery and I must say I can only hope that I can create pens half as nice as some of the pens I've seen on this site. There are a lot of talented people here and I look forward to picking their brain. Since joining IAP I have found a semi-local pen turning group (they're in Wisconsin, I'm in Illinois) that is having a meeting in February so I'm sure I can get lots of pointers there.

Well, I hope some day I can make a contribution to this site someday in the form of answers/advice to a new member.... maybe even save them a little headache :)

Terry
 

jimofsanston

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
762
Location
Sandston, Va
Welcome they are nice pens and like Butch said there is not just one way to turn pens. At one of my local chapter meetings everyone showed their preferred way of finishing a pen. Here is the kicker. not one of us did it the same and there was at least 7 members who did the demo's. It is just something that you find that works for you.
 

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
9,331
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
Welcome, but I have already seen your posts here!

Well, to add to your headache - my opinion is to listen to the folks here more than salesmen in stores. Their job is to sell.

Basics - get that information at the store or here. It will still be divergent here as well as there.

BUT - it is here and a couple of other places that advancement is pen turning is taking place. Even with divergent suggestions, at least the information here is from practical experience of end users, many of whom have been doing this for a long time.

It is hard for a "new to turning pens" to figure out who to trust for sure. Once I found this site in late '04, I was blown away and this became my source of information. Yes, I visited stores and talked with salesmen, but there was something about a site dedicated to pens that spoke out loud and clear as to who the experts were. And there were "arguments" and divergent opinions here even then! :rolleyes:

Imagine the first CA finish user(s) and all of the naysayers for that - when it was new. No store would have recommended that! For them (If my memory serves me correctly) it was Friction polishes and waxes that wear off in a day and 24+ hour other finishes.

At least here, you can get information on the finish of your choice on how to and what to expect.

Same for Mandrel versus TBC. Stores will sell Mandrels because that is what they have. TBC considerations are just now making it into the commercial vendors (PSI) by virtue of making a live center (or is that a drive center) that allows the shortening of the mandrel to eliminate some of the problems of long mandrels. Point is - Stores will sell what they have and that is their job and purpose.

I buy from PSI, Berea, CSUSA, Woodcraft, LeeValley, Hut and more. But they are not the experts in the pen making industry. As things change, they lag behind two or three years on some things that started here, on other forums - and PMG.

As part of the welcome I am including some links that we give to all new members. Below are links to two threads/articles that have lots of information on pen turning. The first one is a very basic overview of the many aspects of getting into turning pens.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=42446

The second link has postings by different pen turners and what they wish they had known earlier:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46654


Here is another link - a PDF on the acronyms used here. I am sure you know many but this will help with those you don't.

http://content.penturners.org/articles/2009/Acronyms.pdf
 
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snyiper

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
1,601
Location
St Inigoes, MD
Welcome Fester, it looks like you are well on your way to being a excellent pensmith (is that even a word?) One of the awesome benifits here I have found as a new turner is the wealth of information and the eagerness to help. You will also find many schools of thought on different items like finishes, you will also find out why and how everyone does it their way. There is plenty of information on both sides of any fence you just need to decide what side to walk on. As there is no "right" side all paths lead to a finished product you can be proud of!!! Keep up the good work and learn what you can!
 

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
24,529
Location
Racine, WI, USA.
Call us and take a trip to Racine. Bring your pens.

I don't sell the stuff you'll need to finish them, but I CAN tell you what you are doing that can be improved.

Give us a call-phone number on "www.exoticblanks.com" website.
 

maxwell_smart007

Lead Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
6,711
Location
middle of nowhere in the great, white North
Hi Fester,

There are more finishes available to the penturner than most know about. I know I would never use steel wool on a pen!

Luckily, we have a giant archive of finishes that we can read about in the library. And like most crafts, the artisan just has to pick one and experiment with it until he or she finds the right finish!

Looks like you found one - those acrylics look great!
 

Daniel

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Messages
5,921
Location
Reno, NV, USA.
Welcome Fester. As far as I am concerned the two pens you have posted photos of look perfectly fine to me. As far as improving, it takes a considerable effort, practice, experimenting to advance from well done to even better. I understand the mind boggling selection you run into. Think along the lines of starting where you are now and try to improve from there. Your post looks like your concerns are centered around 1. drilling, and 2 finishing. In the case of your finishes if you are not happy my first instinct is to say the issues are in the details and maybe a little in the materials.
one example is to ask. Are you sanding with the length of the barrel between each grit of sandpaper or micro mesh? this is a detail that will make a considerable difference.
You may get a better final polish on acrylics with other products such as Hut Crystal coat, but my overall opinion on that matter is grit is grit. Knowing the grit of the polish is important and one of the members recently made a list of the relative grits of several sanding and polishing products that are commonly used by members here. I am not sure it went as far as listing car polishes though. Sorry I am not sure just where to find that list it may very well be added to the library.
In the case of drilling on the lathe. depending on the quality of your lathe, it is not difficult at all. it may require getting some equipment but. Given that your drill press is not doing the job well, regardless of why. drilling on the lathe is a good solution. even a bad lathe will do a better job of drilling a blank than a bad drill press.
Good luck and remember to enjoy the journey and don't get to anxious to see the finish line.
 

Rfturner

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
1,109
Location
Santa Maria, CA
To Fester

I know that it can be a daunting task o figure out everything that you need to do. From trial and error I found that ths CA glue does go on nice and produces a good finish, BUT it fades off in a few months. I tested out several finishes by using the pens I made and came to the conclusion that "Man o' War" marine spar Varnish has the best results on wood. It is not the cheapest but it will last a very long time. The dry time is around 24 hours, and I will put a wax finish just to make it have a bit more shine for the customer.

For plastics I will use "Micro mesh" and take it up to 12000, It produces a very nice shine that last

If you have any questions email me at rfcharitypens@yahoo.com and put IAP in the header, good luck and welcome
 
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jocat54

Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Messages
471
Location
Leakey, Texas
Hi Terry and welcome. I am also new (again) to pen turning. I have just started drilling on my and lathe and TBC. I would not go back to drill press and mandrel if it can be helped. I use the collet chuck from PSI and use center drills to start and finish with correct size bit. It was always hit and miss with the drill press but so far all have been right on with the lathe.

I also have a metal a metal lathe so I make all my bushings for TBC (don't really have to have them).

I haven't been very good at CA finish so I use lacquer, wipe it on, 5-6 coats it dries really fast and then use polish.

Good Luck,

John
 

thewishman

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
8,183
Location
Reynoldsburg, Ohio, USA.
Hey Terry, take Ed (ed4copies) up on his offer! He is a master and can turn an acrylic pen in about two passes of a skew. He has probably turned more pens than several of us put together. (Don't tell him I said this, it might damage his humility.)

A couple of local (within 75 miles) guys mentored me and saved me a lot of the headaches you described.


P.S. Before you take advice from a pen maker, take a look at his pens.
 

Fester

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
28
Location
Waukegan, IL
Thanks everyone for all your comments, I will take my time and sort through, ask for pointer, etc. As I said I do not want to take short cuts with anything. I am going to the meeting at the new Woodcraft store located at W. Greenfield Ave. in New Berlin, Wi. Looking forward to that very much!!
 

witz1976

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
2,144
Location
Bucksport, Maine, USA
I was at a woodcraft this past weekend (in New Hampshire which is about 3 hours from me) to get some items. While I was there I over heard a sales guy talking to a new pen turner and he was giving the same sales pitch as you got. Once the sales guy left I spoke to the kid (he was still in HS) and told him while the sales guy had some good ideas it would be best to seek out this site.

I have been self teaching myself how to turn for the past 7 months. This site is a gold mine for info. Everyone is truly helpful and will really challenge you to become a better pen turner/pen maker. Good luck and happy turning!
 

StatProf

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
168
Location
Richardson, TX, USA.
Welcome

I have one suggestion on finishes. Like others said, my friction polishes wear off in about a day. I have tried some "dip" finishes, but they are tough to contol.

I now LOVE the CA finish. I used to do the CA finish by Russ on the site:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1488

I really like the way this one feels. It just feels right. However, I have found that clients like the "really shiny one." So, I do William's finish if I really want the shine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orcgOf4siqc

What a great group of masters to glean from!!!

Blessings,
StatProf
 

CSue

Local Chapter Leader
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
2,368
Location
Laveen, AZ, USA.
Hi Terry! Welcome from southern California.

Your pens look really nice. I like your choices of color and all.

Everything takes time, you know. Listen to all, read a lot. But the best thing you can do is sit down, turn and keep on turning and adapt all you learn to make a style all your own.

The Local Chapters, if you have access to one, can help a lot, too. Looking forward to hearing more about what you come up with.
 

bradbn4

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
286
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA.
I remember taking my first class on sharping lathe tools. Seem simple - more than willing to give out drawings, etc on how to do it right. Then I joined the local wood turning group and it seemed that every one had the right way to sharpen tools. And almost none of the methods matched.

I like my Paul's vice to drill many of my pen blanks. It seems to be consistent and well made. From what I understand once you master the dill on the lathe technique - you will find that using the drill press to be so much less accurate.

Making pen's is a lot like learning "go" or other simple board games. With some work you can be good at it. However, there always seems to be new lessons to be learned while on the path to perfection.

I picked up pen turning to relax - not necessary to make pens.
 

KenBrasier

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
393
Location
Salem, MO
Welcome to the IAP...... You'll find EVERYTHING you need right here, with plenty of sincere help. Check it out, then pick what works for you.
 
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