New Forum for Kitless?

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Should we create a new forum for custom and kitless pens?

  • Yes

    Votes: 56 91.8%

  • No

    Votes: 5 8.2%
  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .
jeff

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I received a suggestion a few days ago that we open up a forum devoted to kitless pens. That seems like a great idea, as an increasing number of people seem to be interested in that aspect of the craft. I've posted a poll with this thread. Just a simple yes/no for creation of a new forum.

Assuming a good positive vote, what should we call it? I'd propose "Custom / Kitless / Pens" or something like that.

Comments pro or con for the new forum, and name suggestions are most welcome.
 
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jttheclockman

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Fred brings up a good point. Maybe change the name of that forum to incorporate kitless. After all Advanced is basically what that forum was suppose to be for. Basically that is where kitless pens are talked about in that forum.
 
magpens

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Fred and Duncan have raised good points . . . . .

Perhaps the present forum structure DOES serve the interests of Custom and Kitless Pens quite well . . . . .

Leaving things as they are MAY in fact give these types of pens more exposure than they would get if segregated into a new forum.

I'd like to give this some more thought.

However, the current name for the other forum mentioned, namely " Advanced Pen Making ", could be made more clear and could explicitly refer to Kitless and Custom Pens as well as Advanced. . .

The right choice of words for the title of that forum could be all that we need ... perhaps " Advanced, Custom, Kitless Pens " ... or similar .

I agree that " Bespoke " is probably not a very good word for the title, as Chuck pointed out . . . the meaning of that term is obscure to many.
 
leehljp

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I do see a distinction (that overlaps some), but a distinction non-the-less: nib types and sizes along with feed and ink type and problem solving are one thing, building a kitless is another. The former issues concern the inner workings and is different from "building" a kitless; Similar to the difference between software and hardware of computers.

The Advanced forum could include both under the same name, but there is a distinction and contrast in the two.
 
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Dalecamino

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leehljp said:
I do see a distinction (that overlaps some), but a distinction non-the-less: nib types and sizes along with feed and ink type and problem solving are one thing, building a kitless is another. The former issues concern the inner workings and is different from "building" a kitless; Similar to the difference between software and hardware of computers.

The Advanced forum could include both under the same name, but there is a distinction and contrast in the two.
Click to expand...
Great explanation Hank.
 
Dalecamino

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I have posted in the Advanced Pen Making forum years ago when I first started making kitless pens, because it seemed to be the appropriate place for discussion. But in that forum at the time anyway, there were all sorts of things posted. Such as turning closed end, kit pens, custom finials for kit pens, replacing kit center bands, and it goes on.

I think a separate forum for kitless pens is in order especially for those looking to get started in making kitless pens. They will know where to look, and can reasonably expect to find what they're looking for. And so far the poll is on our side. 😁
 
jttheclockman

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Dalecamino said:
I have posted in the Advanced Pen Making forum years ago when I first started making kitless pens, because it seemed to be the appropriate place for discussion. But in that forum at the time anyway, there were all sorts of things posted. Such as turning closed end, kit pens, custom finials for kit pens, replacing kit center bands, and it goes on.

I think a separate forum for kitless pens is in order especially for those looking to get started in making kitless pens. They will know where to look, and can reasonably expect to find what they're looking for. And so far the poll is on our side. 😁
Click to expand...
With this logic used then a subforum under the Advance forum would be the thing. Because everything you mentioned can also be used in making kitless pens such as rings, centerbands, finials and so on.
 
Dalecamino

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jttheclockman said:
With this logic used then a subforum under the Advance forum would be the thing. Because everything you mentioned can also be used in making kitless pens such as rings, centerbands, finials and so on.
Click to expand...
You're partially correct. These things can be done with a kitless pen, but there are no kit components involved, and the process is a completely different process. My avatar pen is an example. We need a separate forum for kitless pens! It costs us nothing extra. Just Jeff's expertise, and labor/skills. But THANKS for backing me on the BESPOKE issue!
 
magpens

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What is the New Meaning of 'Bespoke'? And can you afford it?

** Bespoke - If you want to get more money for the items you make/sell, learn to call them "bespoke"


1) What "bespoke" means - https://www.gq.com/story/bespoke

Bespoke is not exactly a new term, but it seems to be gaining in popularity. It means the opposite of off-the-rack. Bespoke clothing is custom-made clothing. It is not made to measure, as featured by many good clothing vendors. A made-to-measure item is a standard one customized at the factory in certain measurements and details. Bespoke is made from scratch to your specifications.

2) What does the British term bespoke mean?

The word itself, which dates from 1583, is a past participle of bespeak, chiefly British, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, and is defined as "(of goods, especially clothing) made to order."

3) https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-is-the-new-meaning-of-bespoke

Cynics have opined that the spread of bespoke is driven by the idea that goods which are modified by this adjective tend to cost more money. This may in fact be true, but even if so, this does not change the fact that the new meaning of the word ("custom made") is not very new at all. We've just begun to extend it beyond clothing, which was not its sole province to begin with.
 
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jttheclockman

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Dalecamino said:
You're partially correct. These things can be done with a kitless pen, but there are no kit components involved, and the process is a completely different process. My avatar pen is an example. We need a separate forum for kitless pens! It costs us nothing extra. Just Jeff's expertise, and labor/skills. But THANKS for backing me on the BESPOKE issue!
Click to expand...
I am having flashbacks. Been here and done this before.

https://www.penturners.org/threads/kitless-or-advanced-forum.4229/#post-393262
 
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Ironwood

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I am all for having a forum dedicated to kitless penmaking, it will help keep all the info and discussion in one place, and be easier to find .
I am not sure if the "Show off your Pens" should be split though, I would need more time to think about that. Anyone else want to comment on that part of it ?
 
CjG78

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I started to put my kitless (NOT BESPOKE lol) pens into advanced pen making, but after seeing the advanced kitless pens in there, kind of felt silly being put with those, so back to show off your pens.
I like the fact that all people that visit this page have a wide array of things to look at.
I do however think that a kitless/custom forum would be awesome, as that's all I am doing lately, and would love to chat and mingle with the like minded.
 
leehljp

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magpens said:

What is the New Meaning of 'Bespoke'? And can you afford it?

** Bespoke - If you want to get more money for the items you make/sell, learn to call them "bespoke"


1) What "bespoke" means - https://www.gq.com/story/bespoke

Bespoke is not exactly a new term, but it seems to be gaining in popularity. It means the opposite of off-the-rack. Bespoke clothing is custom-made clothing. It is not made to measure, as featured by many good clothing vendors. A made-to-measure item is a standard one customized at the factory in certain measurements and details. Bespoke is made from scratch to your specifications.

2) What does the British term bespoke mean?

The word itself, which dates from 1583, is a past participle of bespeak, chiefly British, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, and is defined as "(of goods, especially clothing) made to order."

3) https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-is-the-new-meaning-of-bespoke

Cynics have opined that the spread of bespoke is driven by the idea that goods which are modified by this adjective tend to cost more money. This may in fact be true, but even if so, this does not change the fact that the new meaning of the word ("custom made") is not very new at all. We've just begun to extend it beyond clothing, which was not its sole province to begin with.
Click to expand...

Bespoke usually has the connotation of someone requesting a special order (as Mal mentioned above) - or just a fancier word for "commissioned" which is a fancier word for "custom made". I agree with the other sentiments on the word "Bespoke".
 
jttheclockman

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Dalecamino said:
Wow...I had been a member a whole 3 months when this was posted. Even Cav was opposed to the new Kitless forum.
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Chuck getting new things done here at times is like asking for everyones first born. I can also link back to when I wanted a seperate forum for segmenting. Oh the pushback from that was intense Thus Mike's thread about Just Segmented pens and no comments was born. But it gets lost many times untill someone posts a new pen in it. People want to lump all things. Finally it was agreed to have a subforum dedicated off Blank making as it should and a casting forum was then born soon after and grouped under blank making. As I stated my thoughts, this topic follows down the same path and becomes a subforum under advanced pen making. Many times the problem here is people do not take the time to really dive into this web site and soak up all the knowledge and places where info just oozes. Everyone want the short quick way out because that is the type society we have become all around us in everyday life. Having a big bold forum dedicated to kitless pens is what I believe others want to see. Beyond my pay grade. I can give you another example of something I would love to see happen here and yes it will stir anger from some again but having a Hall Of Fame forum here for those elite and WOW pens that happen once in a blue moon here. I know myself and Hank have pressed for this a couple times but again the pushback is tremendous and I gave up.
 
jeff

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Ironwood said:
I am all for having a forum dedicated to kitless penmaking, it will help keep all the info and discussion in one place, and be easier to find .
I am not sure if the "Show off your Pens" should be split though, I would need more time to think about that. Anyone else want to comment on that part of it ?
Click to expand...
I wasn't considering splitting SOYP, but I suppose that's an option.
 
jeff

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Upon closer inspection, I see that the forum description for the Advanced Pen Making forum is "Kit-less construction; designs and challenges beyond those normally associated with kit pens." Reading through the threads, I see that the majority are related to kitless work. So maybe a name change of that forum is a better approach.

How about this: We'll change the name of the "Advanced Pen Making" to "Kitless & Custom Pen Making"

That should encompass everything from modifying kit hardware to full custom work.

I had not planned to split SOYP, but if you think there's a good reason to do so, we can discuss.

Bespeak your comments!
 
magpens

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CjG78 said:
I started to put my kitless (NOT BESPOKE lol) pens into advanced pen making, but after seeing the advanced KITLESS pens in there, kind of felt silly being put with those, so back to show off your pens.
I like the fact that all people that visit this page have a wide array of things to look at.
I do however think that a kitless/custom forum would be awesome, as that's all I am doing lately, and would love to chat and mingle with the like minded.
Click to expand...

Hey, Casey !! ... you been drinkin' ?? ... your opening sentence seems a little unclear ..... DO YOU MEAN my rewrite below in red ....... ??? 😀 😀

"I started to put my kitless (NOT BESPOKE lol) pens into advanced pen making, but after seeing the advanced ... KIT ... pens in there, kind of felt silly being put with those, so back to SOYP ."
 
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W

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I like the idea, maybe have SOYP just that as a brief description kit material and finish, the advance/kitless/modified section should be a full description
 
jttheclockman

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I do not think there needs to be any distinctive catagory in SOYP for kitless pens. Then you should have for segmented pens and cast pens. Kitless is just another advanced pen making ability. If you look at some of the top designers they will incorporate other aspects within their designs beside just threading blanks. Lets face it that is what kitless is. Add details such as segmenting, making of rings, or doing inlay work within the body of a blank that you do the threading. 99% of kitless are fountain pens so maybe incorporate that within that catagory. Or again I am repeating myself but leave Advanced Pen Making and add sub forums such as Kitless and another for Custom pens.
 
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