Neophyte Bespoke Questions and Advice

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
D

Dr Robert

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2015
Messages
32
Location
Kennett Square, PA 19348
Greetings!!!! I am a semiretired dentist from Kennett Square, PA. I have been going the "Kit Pen" route for a number of years, took a break for a while but now want to enter into "Bespoke". I need some advice. I have accumulated much of the equipment and armamentarium….wood lathe, metal lathe…."bells and whistles". I'll summarize below what I'd like to:
I have been turning wooden pens using a "Semi Bespoke Kit" from Bullseyeturning Supply. I want to continue with wooden fountain pens with ebonite section sleeves. I've been using 1/2in bits for the cap and 10mm for the body. I want to cheat however and pick up the nib/section piece to install. Perhaps down the road I'll fabricate these but right now just the cap and section sleeves….. Doing research I've noticed that the Triple Start taps and dies are quite expensive!!!
QUESTIONS:
1-What size Tap and Die is recommended for Cap and Body, Nib/Section into Body??? I realize the make of Nib/Section will dictate the size…..What is a good starting point for Nib/Section selection???? Where can I obtain them??? Where can I purchase Taps and Dies for this???
Any advice, comments and help is greatly appreciated !!!!! Thank Yiou…Dr Bob
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
My starting recommendation would be to pick a single brand and nib size. And choose the right T&D set to match.
That being said, a good starting point for a cap to body T&D set would be a triple start 12x0.8

My go to size for a section is a JoWo #5 M6.5x0.5 Tap And a M9x1 T&D set section to body.

Turners Werehouse stocks most of the triple start sets. Or you can wait until a group buy pops up.

www.turnerswarehouse.com

Custom Pen Making Tools

We are a small family owned and operated business in sunny Arizona. We specialize in pen kits, project kits, ring turning and resin casting. We carry a wide range of lathes, tools and accessories for all your woodturning needs.
www.turnerswarehouse.com
 
Dr. Bob,

I am also anxious to follow your thread. I've been making the Apollo rollerballs from Bullseye and I too have been thinking about trying to make some kitless pens.

Although I had planned on starting with single lead taps and dies because of the cost, over the past 3 or 4 years I have had the great fortune to accumulate some bargain taps, dies, drill bits, nibs, and clips from fellow IAP members that were either cleaning house or selling off some of their surplus parts.

Among them have been a M13 x 0.8 Triple Lead and a M12 x 0.8 Triple Lead which I assume are for Cap to Body threads. I also have a M10 x 1.0 and a M10 x 0.75 single lead which I assume are for Section to Body threads. Although I am more of a rollerball fan, I have also accumulated a M7.9 x 0.6, a M6.4 x 0.6, and a M6.5 x 0.5 which I think are for Bock #6, Bock #5, and JoWo #5 nibs respectively. I'm hoping that my accumulated collection will meet the need depending on the responses you get.

Anxiously waiting to see the responses to your most outstanding question.

Dave

PS I will probably start with the M6.5 x 0.5 (JoWo #5?) as I have a few Schmidt Cartridge Rollerball System fountain to rollerball converters.
 
Beaufort Ink in the UK sell sections for Bock nibs and feeds. They also have taps for sections, feeds and body/caps. TurnersWarehouse sells Beaufort products but I haven't dug deep enough to see if they have all the same as Beaufort.

Victor sell all kinds of taps and dies but only single start threads. A good way to start by cheaply being able to play with different sizes so you can settle on the one or two you like best. Then get triples in those.
 
Curly said:
Beaufort Ink in the UK sell sections for Bock nibs and feeds. They also have taps for sections, feeds and body/caps. TurnersWarehouse sells Beaufort products but I haven't dug deep enough to see if they have all the same as Beaufort.

Victor sell all kinds of taps and dies but only single start threads. A good way to start by cheaply being able to play with different sizes so you can settle on the one or two you like best. Then get triples in those.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Turners only carries a very small sampling of Beaufort's line up.
 
The best advice I have read about designing a pen is to "design from the inside out".
1st you will need to decide on the nib size and converter.
#6 nibs are by far the most popular. I like #5s and they are great for small pens.
Since you don't want to make the section you will be limited by what's available.
Beaufort is a great supplier and you can probably get everything you need from them. The down side is shipping from the UK is high and the tariffs make it even worse. You can probably get everything you need from US companies but from multiple sources.

For a #6 pen I use 13mm cap threads with 10mm section threads.

You will also need mandrels and work with those sizes. Or make your own.

Have fun with it.
 
Beaufort ink also has section sleeves for both #5 and #6 Bock nibs. They are already milled for the nib, all you do is glue your material to the outside of the sleeve. I recommend at least a trip 13mm for #6 nibs and trip 12mm for #5 nibs. Here's a link

Beaufort Ink - Section sleeves and thread sleeves for kitless pens

Section sleeves and thread sleeves for kitless pens
www.beaufortink.co.uk www.beaufortink.co.uk
Enjoy the journey!
 
Welcome! To start, under the Resources tab, the IAP Library has a lot of great resources! In terms of taps/dies, it's okay to start with single start. You can pick them up from Amazon as little as $15 per set. From there, you can decide which size fits your style best then invest in the triple start.

Here's my lengthy perspective on sizing:
It's just math. Typically with resin, you don't want your solid wall thickness to be less than 1mm. You can get away with slightly thinner with ebonite as it tends to be a little stronger. You first should decide what size nibs you want to use, assuming standard FP construction. I typically prefer a Jowo #6, which uses a 7.4x.5 tap so, using a 7mm bit and a 1mm wall thickness, gives you 9mm minimum OD (wall thickness adds to the radius, so it doubles with the diameter). So if you were to use a 10x1mm die, that would get you to the desired size solid wall thickness of 9mm (because the threads cut 10mm minus 1mm = 9mm). That's all for the section.
Now, moving to the body, you start with a 9mm bit and 10x1mm tap. Again, with that, your minimum solid wall thickness is 12mm. So, the smallest you can do is 13x1mm single start.
Finally the cap minimum OD is 15mm.
Now with a sleeve, you add another layer of material, so use a 15mm drill bit for the sleeved material, giving you a minimum diameter of 17mm. For a sleeved body, a 9mm hole down the center, which gives your sleeve an 11mm OD, so the minimum OD of the sleeved material is 13MM.
Now, if that doesn't make sense yet, throw it into ChatGPT to make it more readable 😅
 
You are getting a lot of good advise from previous responses.

I make wood pens that I sleeve, usually with ebonite, but sometimes with other materials.

I am going to STRONGLY recommend that your initial foray into bespoke pen making is NOT a sleeved wood pen.

Learn to do the basic tasks of making a pen from ebonite, acrylic, resin (alumilite, thermoset, etc...) first. Get comfortable with the machining required to produce a cap, barrel and section. Once you have done this, then move on to trying your hand a a sleeved/lined wood pen. The skills you learn doing this are 100% transferrable into making sleeved/lined pens and you won't compound the potential for issues and frustration at the very beginning.

Good luck. Ask questions. Have fun.
 
@Barry Gross has a cost effected "kitless kit". Everything needed to start and learn. Check it out.
BGARTFORMS.COM

1771771314748.jpeg

DON
 
Dr Robert said:
Greetings!!!! I am a semiretired dentist from Kennett Square, PA. I have been going the "Kit Pen" route for a number of years, took a break for a while but now want to enter into "Bespoke". I need some advice. I have accumulated much of the equipment and armamentarium….wood lathe, metal lathe…."bells and whistles". I'll summarize below what I'd like to:
I have been turning wooden pens using a "Semi Bespoke Kit" from Bullseyeturning Supply. I want to continue with wooden fountain pens with ebonite section sleeves. I've been using 1/2in bits for the cap and 10mm for the body. I want to cheat however and pick up the nib/section piece to install. Perhaps down the road I'll fabricate these but right now just the cap and section sleeves….. Doing research I've noticed that the Triple Start taps and dies are quite expensive!!!
QUESTIONS:
1-What size Tap and Die is recommended for Cap and Body, Nib/Section into Body??? I realize the make of Nib/Section will dictate the size…..What is a good starting point for Nib/Section selection???? Where can I obtain them??? Where can I purchase Taps and Dies for this???
Any advice, comments and help is greatly appreciated !!!!! Thank Yiou…Dr Bob
Click to expand...
Welcome to the group! You have gotten lots of great advice here already, so I'm not going to pile on, but @its_virgil mentioned Barry Gross as a good source for a reasonable cost kit and I'll expand on that. Your location in PA might be a help here. The Mid Atlantic Turners Expo Register is coming up the second weekend in March. Barry Gross and Jim Hinze are featured demonstrators at the symposium - both EXCEPTIONALLY good turners and teachers. The event is around a 2.5 hour drive from you. Jim is also doing a one-on-one 4 hour bespoke pen making class for a fee (I took it last year and it was very worth it) but it books fast. There is also a good vendor area at the show focused pretty entirely on penmaking items for sale. Take a look - I don't think you will regret the time spent! Also, you are fairly close to Penn State Industries showroom, so another possible field trip!

Kevin
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom