NEJE laser rotary jig options?

[Bats]

I've been eyeing (no, not eyeing! eyes burn! bad laser! bad!) one of the NEJE lasers for a while now, but I'm in a bit of a quandary.

I was looking at (no! no looking at the beam! bad Bats! bad!) one of the 30W Master 2 Plus units, because if I'm going to drop the money, I'd like something that's good for more than just pen engraving. The problem is, Nancy over at NMC Lasers says there isn't a Benson Pace rotary jig that'll work with it yet (although she was kinda ambiguous as to whether the problem is the module wattage or the machine size, but I'm assuming it's the latter). Does anyone know if there's a T-Shadow/Mike Shortness version that'll do the job, or if there are any other alternatives?

I thought about just ("just") sticking a laser module on my CNC and installing a small rotary table, but that means controlling a fifth motor, which means a second parallel port, which means a lot of extra work. And I'd probably also have to raise my Z axis to clear the chuck, which is a project I really wasn't planning on getting into until I have a chance to enlarge the machine, which is waiting on a new bench, which is waiting on lumber prices to drop, which is waiting on the dog that worried the cat that chased the rat that ate the cheese that lay in the house that Jack Bats built.


(No, Bats didn't build the house. Or leave cheese lying around. Although the beagle wishes I would - she loves her cheese. She loves everyone else's cheese, too.)

 

[Paul in OKC]

Following. Been looking at the same laser for a bit myself.

 

[MRDucks2]

You wouldn't necessarily have to add an additional axis for control. The rotational axis could replace your y axis. Unplug y, plug rotary axis in. The rotation replaces the y axis movement.

 

[lorbay]

I have the T Shaddow on my 20 watt. Where the jig mounts it look like the same as the 30 watt

 

[Bats]

I have the T Shaddow on my 20 watt. Where the jig mounts it look like the same as the 30 watt

Is yours the "Plus" version (255x440mm work envelope) or the smaller (150x150mm... I think) one? I was assuming (read: guessing - hopefully Nancy will get back to me with more details) that the problem had to do with the overall machine size, but I haven't been able to get a clear enough view of the jig to understand how it all goes together, or what might have to be changed from one machine to another.

Also, how is the 20W in terms of engraving? Nancy seemed to be suggesting (although her emails leave a lot of room for interpretation) that the 3.5W and the 30W had better detail than the other units. I might be inclined to go down a step if there isn't a difference & it meant being able to actually get a jig.

...although based on her site it looks like the 30/40W units are the only ones available in the more recent 2/2S series, which I seem to have read are the only ones compatible with GRBL/Lightburn. So maybe I'm still stuck.

 

[Bats]

You wouldn't necessarily have to add an additional axis for control. The rotational axis could replace your y axis. Unplug y, plug rotary axis in. The rotation replaces the y axis movement.

I've thought about that before, but was always a little reluctant to take that path. I figured it still involves most of the same workload (and while it avoids the second parallel port, it still has some of the same stumbling blocks, like low Z clearance) and knew that I'd probably just hate myself if I went through all that (and through the trouble of building a new LinuxCNC config to run it) and only ended up with a hacky rotary axis rather than true fourth axis capability.

Not that I've entirely ruled it out - it just doesn't seem to solve quite enough problems to justify the compromises. I was hoping that picking up a cheap self-contained laser setup would let me kick that can a little farther down the road, but it looks like that brings its own set of compromises to negotiate.

 

[DavidD]

Maybe this is a silly question: but do you need a rotary jig? More precisely, do you plan on engraving things around the entire circumference of the barrel? If not, maybe you could get started without a rotary jig.

 

[lorbay]

Is yours the "Plus" version (255x440mm work envelope) or the smaller (150x150mm... I think) one? I was assuming (read: guessing - hopefully Nancy will get back to me with more details) that the problem had to do with the overall machine size, but I haven't been able to get a clear enough view of the jig to understand how it all goes together, or what might have to be changed from one machine to another.

Also, how is the 20W in terms of engraving? Nancy seemed to be suggesting (although her emails leave a lot of room for interpretation) that the 3.5W and the 30W had better detail than the other units. I might be inclined to go down a step if there isn't a difference & it meant being able to actually get a jig.

...although based on her site it looks like the 30/40W units are the only ones available in the more recent 2/2S series, which I seem to have read are the only ones compatible with GRBL/Lightburn. So maybe I'm still stuck.

Mine is the smaller 150x150 but the main assembly looks the same. It hard to tell from the pictures. Send T Shaddow an email I am sure he knows. Lin

 

[TDahl]

I have the 40W Master 2 Plus which I like. I could have easily gone with the 30W. I purchased a Rotary jig from James Fewster at Crossgates Crafts (https://www.jafweb.co.uk/index.php/jafweb-jig/). Check out his website. I purchased the older model a while back. He has since added to his product line.

I attached a photo of some engraved pens I recently completed using the jig.

Hope this helps in your decisions

 

[MRDucks2]

One other idea I have had but not pursued for my X-Carve (not yet set back up after moving) is to mount a rotary axis in a rear quadrant actually recessed into the table. Less expensive than raise the z-axis. Not sure if this would be practical on your arrangement or not.

 

[Bats]

Maybe this is a silly question: but do you need a rotary jig? More precisely, do you plan on engraving things around the entire circumference of the barrel? If not, maybe you could get started without a rotary jig.

It's more than just needing the entire circumference (though, yes, I do have some plans for wrapping designs) - designs will become increasingly stretched the closer you get to the halfway point - especially on something like a slimline that doesn't offer a lot of engravable area to begin with.

If it were a simple question of waiting for the jigs to be back in stock, though, I wouldn't worry about it - I'd just get the laser now, and pick up the jig when it was available. But being a product that doesn't actually exist yet makes me reluctant to form too many future plans around it. That's why I was wondering whether anyone knew of an (extant) jig that would fit the machines.

I have the 40W Master 2 Plus which I like. I could have easily gone with the 30W. I purchased a Rotary jig from James Fewster at Crossgates Crafts (https://www.jafweb.co.uk/index.php/jafweb-jig/). Check out his website. I purchased the older model a while back. He has since added to his product line.

Oh! Thanks! I'd spotted the Crossgate page a while back, then lost track of it. Do you have one of the versions that's fixed to the machine, or one of the (newer?) free-standing motorized ones? I'm a little curious how practical it is to keep the latter version square to the machine axis.

Those are some nice looking pens, too... what's the blue section? Dyed wood, or acrylic?

One other idea I have had but not pursued for my X-Carve (not yet set back up after moving) is to mount a rotary axis in a rear quadrant actually recessed into the table. Less expensive than raise the z-axis. Not sure if this would be practical on your arrangement or not.

That's something I hadn't considered before, but it might work if I bolted down the machine to the table, cut a hole in the spoilboard, and then mounted the rotary axis on the underlying table. That would probably give me enough clearance for both a laser and (short) end mills... although it could cause problems when it comes time to flip the machine over to replace the spoilboard - re-squaring everything afterwards is likely to be a challenge.

Still, if I can make the spoilboard last until the new bench is made and I can enlarge the machine (right now it's built with a half-width X axis because of space constraints), then I can raise the Z (and only have to buy the hardware once). This shows promise - although it's still definitely a bigger project than buying the laser+jig, and will probably still make me scream every time I go to cut facets or something else 4th-axisish and remember that I can't actually do that while the wiring is swapped.

 

[DavidD]

It's more than just needing the entire circumference (though, yes, I do have some plans for wrapping designs) - designs will become increasingly stretched the closer you get to the halfway point - especially on something like a slimline that doesn't offer a lot of engravable area to begin with.

If you need to wrap around circumference, then you're on the right track! If not, you really don't need a rotary device; in fact, I'd argue you may get a better (and faster, and more flexible in use) result going without it. I have 5 different types of lasers ranging from a 1500mW NEJE to a 45W glow forge, and quickly learned the rotaries were not worth the time or hassle for me personally. But good luck!

 

[Bats]

I have 5 different types of lasers ranging from a 1500mW NEJE to a 45W glow forge

With that sort of experience, there's a chance (if only a chance) that you might be able to clear something up for me, then:

On the 20W NEJE, the description states "The machine is not suitable for engraving best application is for Cutting". When I pressed Nancy for details ("pulling teeth" springs to mind), she said "3500 has the best detail, not for cutting. The 7w engraves deeper so like for a yeti cup.. the 20w engraves well and can cut thin wood. The 30w has the detail of the 3500 and can cut. The 40w cuts ...", which was still rather ambiguous, although it sounded like the 3500mW and the 30W had the best detail, while the others were... uncertain?

Any idea what causes this, or how to select one (or tell the difference based on the available specs)? Pen engraving is what's selling the idea, but cutting is extraordinarily high on the wish list, so I'm trying to figure out how to balance my requirements.

(granted, a CO2 laser is also on the wish list... but space constraints mean I probably won't be getting one in the near future. dammit.)

 

[DavidD]

With that sort of experience, there's a chance (if only a chance) that you might be able to clear something up for me, then:

On the 20W NEJE, the description states "The machine is not suitable for engraving best application is for Cutting". When I pressed Nancy for details ("pulling teeth" springs to mind), she said "3500 has the best detail, not for cutting. The 7w engraves deeper so like for a yeti cup.. the 20w engraves well and can cut thin wood. The 30w has the detail of the 3500 and can cut. The 40w cuts ...", which was still rather ambiguous, although it sounded like the 3500mW and the 30W had the best detail, while the others were... uncertain?

Any idea what causes this, or how to select one (or tell the difference based on the available specs)? Pen engraving is what's selling the idea, but cutting is extraordinarily high on the wish list, so I'm trying to figure out how to balance my requirements.

(granted, a CO2 laser is also on the wish list... but space constraints mean I probably won't be getting one in the near future. dammit.)

That refers only to the maximum power, but what you really need to know is whether the laser modulates. A 1500mW in my opinion is ideal (I personally wouldn't engrave a pen at 3,500mW... but that's just me). So if you have a 2W or a 200W, as long as it modulates power to the diode down to 1.5W, you'll be good. Given the price point of the item you mentioned, I imagine you may not be able to modulate the laser power, and instead only control the movement of the laser head along the axes *which is NOT the same thing*.

Modulation is kind of like variable speed motors on lathes. They're more expensive, but really worth the extra price if you want to be flexible in your work.

 

[Bats]

That refers only to the maximum power, but what you really need to know is whether the laser modulates. A 1500mW in my opinion is ideal (I personally wouldn't engrave a pen at 3,500mW... but that's just me).

I've seen some people talk about engraving and then doing an infill, and saying that even the 3.5W didn't burn deep enough without multiple passes (which sounded like it was problematic on some of the rotary jigs), but I've also seen some just straight-up engraved pens that look like there was a lot of burning around the lettering, too... so, yeah, low-power capability would definitely be a good thing.

So if you have a 2W or a 200W, as long as it modulates power to the diode down to 1.5W, you'll be good. Given the price point of the item you mentioned, I imagine you may not be able to modulate the laser power, and instead only control the movement of the laser head along the axes *which is NOT the same thing*.

That had been one of my concerns, but the separate 30W module (which I'm assuming/hoping/imagining is the same one the 30W machine uses) does specify PWM on the specs page. Or, well, actually it says "Digital PWM wave pulse signal generator adjustable frequency duty cycle board for neje laser module", which sounds a bit like a keyword-spamming way of saying the same thing. Probably. Kinda. Maybe? It doesn't say anything about the range of modulation, though - so I don't know whether 0-255 PWM going to give 0%-100% laser output (which would seem to be the obvious choice... maybe?), or only n%-100%

Nancy's comment about "The 30w has the detail of the 3500 and can cut" had just led me to think that there might be focal, wavelength, or other issues at play, too, in addition to actual power output.

Modulation is kind of like variable speed motors on lathes. They're more expensive, but really worth the extra price if you want to be flexible in your work.

So in other words it's strictly a convenience, and I can always just change the laser's output power by switching belts on the pulleys?

 

[DavidD]

I've seen some people talk about engraving and then doing an infill, and saying that even the 3.5W didn't burn deep enough without multiple passes (which sounded like it was problematic on some of the rotary jigs), but I've also seen some just straight-up engraved pens that look like there was a lot of burning around the lettering, too... so, yeah, low-power capability would definitely be a good thing.


That had been one of my concerns, but the separate 30W module (which I'm assuming/hoping/imagining is the same one the 30W machine uses) does specify PWM on the specs page. Or, well, actually it says "Digital PWM wave pulse signal generator adjustable frequency duty cycle board for neje laser module", which sounds a bit like a keyword-spamming way of saying the same thing. Probably. Kinda. Maybe? It doesn't say anything about the range of modulation, though - so I don't know whether 0-255 PWM going to give 0%-100% laser output (which would seem to be the obvious choice... maybe?), or only n%-100%

Nancy's comment about "The 30w has the detail of the 3500 and can cut" had just led me to think that there might be focal, wavelength, or other issues at play, too, in addition to actual power output.


So in other words it's strictly a convenience, and I can always just change the laser's output power by switching belts on the pulleys?

Sounds like you know what to look for, so not sure what more help anyone here can be, unless you are already leaning in a certain direction and looking for someone to tell you "yes". If that's the case, get an entry-level laser for 1500mW without a rotary for $80. That will help you put those numbers and capabilities into context so you will be better equipped to upgrade down the road, if you so choose. And for what it's worth, I recently did an order of about 300 pens between the tiny 1.5 NEJE, a 2.5W benpen (or at least that's the software name), and the 45 W glow forge, and the $80 laser quality was better than the others, though it admittedly took longer and is a little clunkier to use.

 

[MRDucks2]

If you really start getting serious about diode lasers, you will learn it is a combination of material, laser power, laser control and speed. Oh, and distance to your piece vs beam focus and keeping your own smoke/fumes out of the way. If you do a lot of the same thing you will get it nailed down and be able to set it and forget it. If you try a lot of different things you will spend a lot of time setting the laser up to get it right. So keep good notes.

 

[Bats]

Sounds like you know what to look for, so not sure what more help anyone here can be,

Well, I think I know what I'm looking for... but I'm in a position where I just don't know enough to know if I just don't know enough. Hence the questions. The difficulty in getting clear official answers (from someone I keep seeing recommended as a great source for customer support, no less) just makes me all the less certain how much I know, and is probably resulting in more questions here than I'd otherwise be asking. So, my apologies for leaning on (all of) you to make up the difference - I appreciate the help.

unless you are already leaning in a certain direction and looking for someone to tell you "yes".

I was very much leaning toward the 10x17" 30W system, as I think I probably mentioned up above somewhere (I'm doing too much today, and starting to lose track of all of it) - I just wasn't sure if there was a jig available (it sounds like there is, although I suspect I'm going to cry when I find out how much it costs to have it shipped from the UK), or if there were other unexpected gotchas I didn't know to watch out for (if modulation is the only thing I need to worry about, and if the fact that it supports PWM means it can be dialed all the way down, then I might be set on that front too... maybe)

If that's the case, get an entry-level laser for 1500mW without a rotary for $80. That will help you put those numbers and capabilities into context so you will be better equipped to upgrade down the road, if you so choose.

The idea of just picking up one of the smaller/lower powered units had occurred to me (although I was looking at nmclasers.com, and their smallest/cheapest system is a $200 3.5W or 7W), but I'm short enough on space that I'd rather not saddle myself with gadgets that I know I'm about to make redundant. Sure, I could always offload it on someone else afterwards, but I've learned that I'm terrible about ever actually doing that.

Which may have something to do with my lack of space. Maybe.

And for what it's worth, I recently did an order of about 300 pens between the tiny 1.5 NEJE, a 2.5W benpen (or at least that's the software name), and the 45 W glow forge, and the $80 laser quality was better than the others, though it admittedly took longer and is a little clunkier to use.

That definitely puts it in an interesting perspective. Any idea why it was coming out better? Just the matter of output power, or was there something else involved?

 

[Bats]

If you really start getting serious about diode lasers, you will learn it is a combination of material, laser power, laser control and speed. Oh, and distance to your piece vs beam focus and keeping your own smoke/fumes out of the way. If you do a lot of the same thing you will get it nailed down and be able to set it and forget it. If you try a lot of different things you will spend a lot of time setting the laser up to get it right. So keep good notes.

Sounds a lot like dealing with feeds & speeds on CNC. I was always terrible about taking notes on those, too. Oh well. Maybe this time I'll learn my lesson.

 

[TDahl]

It's more than just needing the entire circumference (though, yes, I do have some plans for wrapping designs) - designs will become increasingly stretched the closer you get to the halfway point - especially on something like a slimline that doesn't offer a lot of engravable area to begin with.

If it were a simple question of waiting for the jigs to be back in stock, though, I wouldn't worry about it - I'd just get the laser now, and pick up the jig when it was available. But being a product that doesn't actually exist yet makes me reluctant to form too many future plans around it. That's why I was wondering whether anyone knew of an (extant) jig that would fit the machines.


Oh! Thanks! I'd spotted the Crossgate page a while back, then lost track of it. Do you have one of the versions that's fixed to the machine, or one of the (newer?) free-standing motorized ones? I'm a little curious how practical it is to keep the latter version square to the machine axis.

Those are some nice looking pens, too... what's the blue section? Dyed wood, or acrylic?


That's something I hadn't considered before, but it might work if I bolted down the machine to the table, cut a hole in the spoilboard, and then mounted the rotary axis on the underlying table. That would probably give me enough clearance for both a laser and (short) end mills... although it could cause problems when it comes time to flip the machine over to replace the spoilboard - re-squaring everything afterwards is likely to be a challenge.

Still, if I can make the spoilboard last until the new bench is made and I can enlarge the machine (right now it's built with a half-width X axis because of space constraints), then I can raise the Z (and only have to buy the hardware once). This shows promise - although it's still definitely a bigger project than buying the laser+jig, and will probably still make me scream every time I go to cut facets or something else 4th-axisish and remember that I can't actually do that while the wiring is swapped.

Oh! Thanks! I'd spotted the Crossgate page a while back, then lost track of it. Do you have one of the versions that's fixed to the machine, or one of the (newer?) free-standing motorized ones? I'm a little curious how practical it is to keep the latter version square to the machine axis.

I have the older version that is fixed to the machine. It works fairly well.

Those are some nice looking pens, too... what's the blue section? Dyed wood, or acrylic?

The blue sections are actually pieces of OSB I dyed blue during the stabilizing process. The different layers gave it a marbleized look. I will probably post something about them when I get a chance.

 

[Bats]

The blue sections are actually pieces of OSB I dyed blue during the stabilizing process. The different layers gave it a marbleized look. I will probably post something about them when I get a chance.

That's interesting - I never would've thought of trying to stabilize (never mind dye) something with that much glue in it. It came out beautifully, though. I may have to try it, if I can ever get an oil mist eliminator sorted on my vac pump - damned thing seems to have a non-standard thread on the exhaust port, which makes finding an adapter difficult.